Fate/stay night Game discussion (Warning: Spoilers)

[DragoZERO]

Yeah, I'd do the prologue in it's entirety. The anime meshed the three days together. Seeing the same event through the eyes of two different characters is always cool too. You'd end episode one with Saber pointing her blade to Rin. Then episode starts Shirou's story on day one. And I would skip the OP in the first episode so that you can squeeze everything in.

Speaking of OP & ED, we'd get a set for each route. That the albums can be sold and all.


Man, if I ever win lotto I'm making a Claymore and F/SN anime.

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by GDB

It's how they allot timeslots in Japan. On average, it's 13 weeks, or a shortened one at 12 weeks (hence why most anime series counts are divisible by one of those numbers).

Ah, OK.

Well, there's no way you could reasonably fit UBW or HF into 12 or 13 30 minute episodes.

And having Saber show up when she did would've been fine if it had followed the novels as they were, but they did like a 2 minute cap of Rin's prologue, and then just trudged through Shirou's activities for a few days.

What, you mean like the VN does (well, except that the VN has the prologue in full as well)?

That stuff is there for a reason. It sets up the characters and their relationships. Admittedly, if you're only doing Fate, much of it could probably be skipped (especially if you're doing UBW and HF afterwards), but you still need at least a couple of episodes worth to cover up to the point of Saber's summoning, if not more.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

What, you mean like the VN does (well, except that the VN has the prologue in full as well)?

Yes, but again: difference in mediums. A VN can take as long as needed to describe a scene. An anime cannot, you have to allow visuals to tell a certain amount of the story, and remember that there's a 23min time limit per episode, and that there'd be a week between that episode and the next one. You have to appeal to casual fans as well as hardcore fans, not just the hardcore fans.

Plus, you have to consider whether it's worth the money to pay for another cour (per route), the animation costs, and the detrimental effect all those extra episodes would have on DVD/Blu-Ray purchases.

[Cherry_Lover]

Yeah, but you simply can't do HF in 13 episodes and actually tell the story. You'd have to cut much of the character development out, and then it wouldn't work.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by GDB

Yes, but again: difference in mediums. A VN can take as long as needed to describe a scene. An anime cannot, you have to allow visuals to tell a certain amount of the story, and remember that there's a 23min time limit per episode, and that there'd be a week between that episode and the next one. You have to appeal to casual fans as well as hardcore fans, not just the hardcore fans.

Plus, you have to consider whether it's worth the money to pay for another cour (per route), the animation costs, and the detrimental effect all those extra episodes would have on DVD/Blu-Ray purchases.

We're talking about a fantasy so money does not apply. That's right, it's a fantasy because it will never happen.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

We're talking about a fantasy so money does not apply. That's right, it's a fantasy because it will never happen.

Well, if we're just talking pure fantasy, I'd rather animate a freshly Nasu-written Ilya route.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by GDB

Well, if we're just talking pure fantasy, I'd rather animate a freshly Nasu-written Ilya route.

And I'd like Fate/Zero animated. I'm looking into printing it all out, but it's going to be pricey. Man, why can't that be released by Tokyo Pop or someone. *sigh*

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by GDB

Well, if we're just talking pure fantasy, I'd rather animate a freshly Nasu-written Ilya route.

As long as he does HF first, I have no objection....

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

And I'd like Fate/Zero animated. I'm looking into printing it all out, but it's going to be pricey. Man, why can't that be released by Tokyo Pop or someone. *sigh*

Because a big chunk of it relies on you knowing about HF and the details in there. Also, if you've not played HF, Kariya's story seems even more depressing.

Also, if people are worried about HF not being work-safe, imagine what Fate/Zero would be like. I mean, Kariya's entire story relies on the fact that Sakura (who is five) is being abused, including one scene where

Spoiler for Fate/Zero:

Zouken gives him prana by getting him to eat the worm he used to take Sakura's virginity.

Try getting that past the censors....

[Flinch]

fate/Zero would go better, as there are 2 clear-cut protagonists (Kiritsugu and Kariya), 2 clear-cut antagonists (Tokiomi and Kirei), 2 who hate each other (Kayneth and Waver), and one in it for the slaughter (Ryonosuke). With that, it's quite easy to make a story fly.

[DragoZERO]

Zero has more stuff like that in it? I don't know if I can stomach it. Reading that bothered me a little. I mean, how can a worm take something like that? And when she is five!? So messed up.

I still want to read it though, finding out about all of these characters would be really interesting.

Did you all read it?

[willyvereb]

It's been translated till the 3rd volume out of the four and the last one is on the way. To answer your question... Well, Bluebeard(Fate/Zero's Caster) alone would top HF if they decide to fully animate his scenes. He's like a psychopathic guro addict who has a master with similar attitude. Did I mention he has slight pedo tendencies too?

Perhaps if we skip that(they aren't as important other than establishing that Bluebeard is a total complete monster...which we know even with one tenth of his scenes). But we face other problems than the obvious censor. Gilgamesh summons Vimana the chariot of God(s) in some religions to fight Zero Berserker in the air. It can spite a bit of outrage from some people.

Fate/Zero in general is more mature-oriented in dark compared to FSN. Black and grey morality applies 90% of the time. Irisviel, Weaver, Zero Rider, Zero Lancer and Saber are the only "white" characters. Also we get some more on Sakura's story when he was young at the Matou house...not really nice but it doesn't really get to the details though. All in all Fate/Zero focuses more on the battles and the ruthlessness of the 4th Grail War but at least it doesn't play with your emotions that much as HF.

For readers of Fate/Zero
If we're at the comparsion of HF and Zero, don't you think we can draw nice paralells between HF Shirou and Kariya?

Spoiler for Fate/Zero:

Both of them risked their health and lives for Sakura's happiness to the very extreme. The only difference is that Kariya eventually lost his objective and gave up to the suffering while Shirou got through with it. In some way HF Shirou is a Kariya who succeeded.

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by Flinch

fate/Zero would go better, as there are 2 clear-cut protagonists (Kiritsugu and Kariya), 2 clear-cut antagonists (Tokiomi and Kirei), 2 who hate each other (Kayneth and Waver), and one in it for the slaughter (Ryonosuke). With that, it's quite easy to make a story fly.

Well, describing Tokiomi as a "clear-cut antagonist" is a little dubious, really (he's not a bad guy, in truth, and if he knew what Zouken was doing to Sakura and was going to do to her in the future he'd likely be all for getting her the hell out of the Matou house ASAP), and similarly so is describing Kariya as a "clear-cut protagonist" (he is fighting for Zouken, after all, even if his reason for doing so is an entirely noble one). Hell even Kiritsugu isn't really all that "clear-cut" as a protagonist. Not least because, ultimately, Kariya and Kiritsugu are enemies of each other just as much as they are of everyone else.

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

Zero has more stuff like that in it? I don't know if I can stomach it. Reading that bothered me a little. I mean, how can a worm take something like that? And when she is five!? So messed up.

Remember that these worms have mouths on them.

And, no, it's not a nice thought....

I still want to read it though, finding out about all of these characters would be really interesting.

It's a good story. But God is it depressing. I mean, practically every scene where Ilya or Sakura are mentioned is just heart-breaking given our knowledge of what will happen in the end. And poor Kariya. The guy suffers so much for absolutely no reward. Hell, he ends up making things worse.

Did you all read it?

Some of it. It's not all translated yet....

Originally Posted by willyvereb

To answer your question... Well, Bluebeard(Fate/Zero's Caster) alone would top HF if they decide to fully animate his scenes. He's like a psychopathic guro addict who has a master with similar attitude. Did I mention he has slight pedo tendencies too?

Christ, I forgot about him and his master. Yeah, most of his stuff would have to go. Even just outlining it would be enough for an 18 rating. I mean, the guy makes an organ out of a young girl's intestines (whilst she's still alive and fully conscious, thanks to magic)....

Perhaps if we skip that(they aren't as important other than establishing that Bluebeard is a total complete monster...which we know even with one tenth of his scenes).

The thing is, you can cut most of them, but even just suggesting it had happened would likely get you an 18 rating (or whatever the Japanese equivalent is). It's simply too damn horrific.

Gilgamesh summons Vimana the chariot of God(s) in some religions to fight Zero Berserker in the air.

I don't think that'd be a huge issue, TBH.

Fate/Zero in general is more mature-oriented in dark compared to FSN. Black and grey morality applies 90% of the time.

Yeah, definitely. None of the main contenders are entirely clean.

Irisviel, Weaver, Zero Rider, Zero Lancer and Saber are the only "white" characters.

Honestly, I wouldn't put Zero Lancer in that list either. He's honourable, yes, but he's not a good guy.

Also we get some more on Sakura's story when he was young at the Matou house...not really nice but it doesn't really get to the details though.

Well, it gives us enough to work out what is going on, even if it's never actually shown (presumably because Kariya has no wish to stand there and watch the girl he is trying to save being tortured...).

Again, just suggesting it would surely be enough for the highest rating to be slapped on it.

at least it doesn't play with your emotions that much as HF.

I don't know about that, actually. I mean, at least with HF you know there's likely to be a happy end. With Fate/Zero you know that there isn't, that Kiritsugu is never going to be able to play with Ilya again and that Kariya is going to die without ever saving Sakura, and it makes all those sad scenes even sadder.

For readers of Fate/Zero
If we're at the comparsion of HF and Zero, don't you think we can draw nice paralells between HF Shirou and Kariya?

Spoiler for Fate/Zero:

Both of them risked their health and lives for Sakura's happiness to the very extreme. The only difference is that Kariya eventually lost his objective and gave up to the suffering while Shirou got through with it. In some way HF Shirou is a Kariya who succeeded.

Yeah, there's a lot of similarities there. The only difference, in all honesty, is that Shirou had the strength to succeed, whereas Kariya didn't.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Remember that these worms have mouths on them.

And, no, it's not a nice thought....

Yeah, I don't want to think about this anymore. It was bad enough when it was first describted in the VN. You'd think it would suck for whoever it'd happen to and then you find out it's been done to Sakura for so long. Rage, so much rage.

It's a good story. But God is it depressing. I mean, practically every scene where Ilya or Sakura are mentioned is just heart-breaking given our knowledge of what will happen in the end. And poor Kariya. The guy suffers so much for absolutely no reward. Hell, he ends up making things worse

Well, I read the first 22 pages or so today and it is really good. I'm going to price out the cost of printing the book next week. I wish it was published in English.

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

Yeah, I don't want to think about this anymore. It was bad enough when it was first describted in the VN. You'd think it would suck for whoever it'd happen to and then you find out it's been done to Sakura for so long.

Yeah. Well, in all honesty, you could tell how bad it is just from the VN, but Zero just makes you actually feel it from the perspective of a happy young girl who slowly breaks under horrific torture, as opposed to Sakura in FSN, who is essentially pre-broken.

Rage, so much rage.

God yes. I never thought it was possible to hate anyone more than I hated Zouken after playing FSN until I read Fate/Zero. I mean, FSN makes me want to write stories where Sakura gets saved from him. Zero makes me want to invent some method of jumping into my computer just so I can have the satisfaction of punching the bastard square in the face.

Spoiler for Fate/Zero:

I mean, he feeds Kariya the worm that he used to take Sakura's virginity in order to restore him to health and then gloats about it in order to hurt Kariya more. I mean, Kariya is fighting for Zouken so that he can save Sakura from that sort of treatment, and yet he's rubbing Sakura's abuse in the poor guys face whilst he's chained to the wall of the Matou basement, entirely helpless.

What a bastard.

Well, I read the first 22 pages or so today and it is really good. I'm going to price out the cost of printing the book next week. I wish it was published in English.

There's a PDF version floating about somewhere.

[DragoZERO]

Yeah...I'm not so sure I should read this.

And I have the PDF. Found the fan translation site that has them and all.

[Cherry_Lover]

Well, parts of it are not very nice. The stuff about Sakura is only a relatively small proportion of it, though, and the same applies to the "Caster and Master torturing children" segments.

[DragoZERO]

What!? Did Nasu write this? With what I heard about Tsukihime and this, the guy needs some professional help.

[Moczo]

Kinoko Nasu feeds on your tears. They can be of sadness or terror, either one is fine with him. Both make him stronger.

[Kanon]

Oh, I didn't know so much of Fate/Zero had been translated. Must get to it soon...

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

What!? Did Nasu write this? With what I heard about Tsukihime and this, the guy needs some professional help.

He's really not that bad compared to some others. Even so, Sakura's story is still one of the most depressing and sick I've ever read/seen. Penis worms certainly aren't nice. Poor, poor Sakura (I'm still pissed Zouken got off so easy...)
Tsukihime is rather tame compared to this, at least from what I can remember.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Moczo

Kinoko Nasu feeds on your tears. They can be of sadness or terror, either one is fine with him. Both make him stronger.

Originally Posted by Kanon

He's really not that bad compared to some others. Even so, Sakura's story is still one of the most depressing and sick I've ever read/seen. Penis worms certainly aren't nice. Poor, poor Sakura (I'm still pissed Zouken got off so easy...)
Tsukihime is rather tame compared to this, at least from what I can remember.

Yeah, broke my heart. Such a pure hearted girl,

With regards to Tsukihime, I am going to play that one the next time I go on vacation. I found a PSP version and will need something to do while traveling.