Madoka Magica - Episode 03 Discussion / Poll

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

On a side note, I gotta say I'm really diggin this show

It sure is quite addicting I must say gave me a good slap in the face when the unexpected turn of events occurred.

[Jaieni]

Originally Posted by Decagon

Wishing for no more witches and MG's seems nice.

Originally Posted by Mentar

*lol*

That was exactly my thought on how to screw over the system, but I thought it was too outlandish and completely unsupported by evidence, so I was putting it on a shelf. It would also allow for some wonderful bittersweet endings. Hint: Try to read the OP as something the committed Mahou Shoujo Madoka would hum to herself AFTER the resolution (which destroys the meatgrinder, but leaves her in the bitter loop)

Or wishing for magic to never to have existed in the first place.
- retroactive (mami still alive)
- no more witches and magic girls

and it would have some awesomely nasty side effects if twisted in the wrong way

[NaweG]

Originally Posted by Hypernova

You are still forced to fight witches till you drop.

The only winning move is not to play.

Which is where I personally think we're going with this series. If it were 26 episodes instead of 12, I'd be sure of it. Based on the OP and the Ep 03 ED, I fully expect a time skip at some point where we see an older Madoka who now truly understands the cost of being a Magical Girl, but knows she can't "retire".

Personally the thing I don't get is why Kyubey can't fight the witches on his own if he's the powerful evil that folks seem to think he is. I'm going for a more gray interpretation (IMNSHO) that he is actually not good or evil, but practical. That there is something about the human female soul that allows them once they enter whatever the magic world "really" is to be able to turn their inner most being into a weapon for fighting the witches inner most being. So the guns and all are just manifestations of their psyche battling it out.

In that case, Kyubey knows that there HAVE to be girls who will fight the witches to keep the world from turning into the dark place from Madoka's opening dream. IOW, once you stop getting Magical Girls, the witches win.

So now we get a time skip of 10 years or so, and we see that Madoka and Homura have continued to fight on their own. Homura won't become a friend with Madoka for the same reason she wouldn't be a friend with Mami - you can't cry if you don't let someone close to you. So the two have an uneasy alliance that keeps the witches at bay, while keeping each other watching each other to see if one of them will finally "crack".

My .02 worth anyway...

[Gilgamesh00]

Originally Posted by Jaieni

Or wishing for magic to never to have existed in the first place.
- retroactive (mami still alive)
- no more witches and magic girls

and it would have some awesomely nasty side effects if twisted in the wrong way

No, if this wish is granted Mami will be dead before find Madoda and Sayaka, so they(Madoka and Sayaka) will not know Mami(wich will be dead), also this wish can be very dangeours, because Magic may support existence of world, so the world can just fall apart.

[Hooves]

I have a feeling that Madoka will merely wish for Mami to be resurrected since she idolized her so much, and it was because of Mami that Madoka is finally able to see things in a more clearer way. But that opinion is quite popular enough

[HitoriTomoyo]

Totally spechless. Urobuchi's dead serious now.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Sheba

And seeing the parallels with the Faustian legend and looking at who is the guy who is writing the series, wishes could very well twisted horribly wrong.

I don't really see all the parallels with Faust that everyone is making. I do see the references but the actual story isn't really the same beyond the basic framework....which *many* stories share. It is often the case in stories where wishes aren't twisted but are interpreted *exactly* as they are stated. If the wish isn't worded very specifically it is easy for the granter to ignore intent...or simply miss it entirely. Plus there's always the "balance" issue in many wish stories. For example wishing to be a millionaire could mean the money was stolen from someone else, instead of being poofed into existence. Good stories love to reinforce consequences for character choices. This show has done well in that regard; it makes no allusion to the consequences of choice and thus plot progression has a nice cause and effect feel that keeps the audience interested.

I don't think Kyubey is evil either. He's amoral. His only purpose is to contract with girls. He has no concern for their welfare beyond that (which should have been obvious by his interactions with Mami and Homura), and his insistence that the girls contract after Mami died was purely out of the fact that there was a witch that needed defeating and two potential candidates for doing that were right there. A better question to ask is who is above Kyubey, or perhaps how the witch/magical girl system got started in the first place. I highly doubt it was for his own amusement, seeing his general lack of anything but his role as a contractor. The other question to ask is why size matters, in reference to his claim that Madoka has the biggest potential of all his candidates.

I think the "tragic" element of the show is simply the realistic outlook about it. In reality being a Magical Girl wouldn't be a life of glamour and fun. It would be dangerous, lonely, and time consuming. In this particular case it is even more difficult when you're on a timer of sorts...magical powers needing to be "refreshed" and you're forced to compete with other Magical Girls for the same resources. It is pretty clear what the consequences are if you don't replenish, and if you don't fight, which adds up to a brutal existence that really isn't worth any other wish than to simply end the whole system.

This wouldn't be any different than say...a realistic Sentai show. No evil monster is going to sit around and wait for the giant robot to complete the five minute transformation sequence. And the big bad isn't going to wait while you recover either. In reality...good doesn't always win, and people die senseless and tragic deaths.

The real "shock" about Mami dying is that it has been a long time since we've seen an anime go down this route (and pull it off believably). Especially one that, by the nature of the genre, tends to be on the happier side. It has been a long time since I've seen this much discussion over a plot twist...it reminded me a lot of the Carnival twist in Mai-Hime or the first episode of Ga-Rei Zero.

[momobunny]

I find the discussions about this series to be half of the fun of enjoying it. I love reading different theories and insights... well for this series... and for now anyway. It's just so interesting thinking of the many twists and turns this anime could take, for the better or worse.

[Himeji]

Now this was... disturbing, to say the least
Poor Mami

We also got some clear hints at Homura being, if not downright evil, at least malicious.
During the talk with Mami, Homura called Madoka a "nuisance" as if she were some pesky gnat or something - that's probably how she sees her. If she actually were concerned about Madoka, she clearly wouldn't call her that. The only thing that Homura is interested in is that a competing contactor doesn't get more magical girls, which would make him more powerful. Homura also hates Mami that much that she would like to see her dead. That's not the case the other way round, as Mami offered Homura to use the grief seed Mami captured as well and offered team work, both of which Homura declined.
Homura didn't fight Mami right away because she didn't want to get her hands dirty, when she already has cooked up a sinister scheme for Mami's downfall, which will require her waiting for a grief seed that is about to hatch.

On the next day already, Homura finds such a grief seed. She waits until Madoka and Sayaka find it, then Madoka runs off to fetch Mami just as expected. Sayaka and Kyuubee enter it already, and when Madoka returns with Mami, they enter it as well. Now that all are in there, it's time for her to enter as well (you surely noticed that her appearance right then was a bit too convenient to be mere coincidence).

Homura tells Mami and Madoka to gtfo, as she'll handle it. She knows very well that they won't do that, because Sayaka and Kyuubee are already in there. When she still insists, Mami chains her down, also just as expected. Even though it would be a piece of cake for her to break down the chains (given how easily she defeats the witch later on), she stays in place to leave Maim in the illusion that she's immobilised, and to have her fight the witch and be killed in the process.

When fighting the witch, Mami has an ugly surprise with the witch turning out to be more powerful as expected, and the witch kills Mami. When Homura's chains dissolve (what she had been waiting for), she knows that witch conveniently killed Mami without herself having to get her hands dirty, so she can appear on the scene now and finish off the witch, which has outlived its usefulness. Homura's words after the battle's end are obviously meant to scare Madoka out of becoming magical girl.

Overall, Homura's sinister scheme was a full success for her:
1. She got rid of a hated rival without getting the hands dirty herself, and the competition is weakened by that
2. She thinks she scared Madoka (who seems to have a lot of potential) out of becoming a magical girl, so a strong potential rival less
3. She got a grief seed all for herself on top of it

With it all having worked just as planned, she snatches the grief seed, gives the girls a harsh "I'm better than you" retort ("This is only for magical girls. I'm a magical girl, and you're just filth.") and walks away with an arrogant expression on her face.

As Madoka didn't have a proper wish yet, she could wish for Mami to come back. However, that seems a bit too simple, and as we have hints at time travel, she could also wish for the time to be turned back before Mami entered the witch's den, then fight the witch together with her (fight alongside Mami, as she'd said before) and win, because of her great powers which were already hinted at. That would be a much better outcome than just wishing for Mami to come back (where you don't know how that would turn out).

[tsunade666]

your really into homura as an enemy, right himeji?

[aeriolewinters]

Spoiler for Just a thought about time travel:

Maybe the first episode was a flashback to when Madoka wished for the world to reset. By then, Madoka would've become a Magical Girl but as the nature of the wish was to reset the world, Madoka doesn't become a Magical Girl instead and resets to the current timeframe. So with the latent Magical power that Madoka was supposed to gain due to her supposedly being one, if she contracts with Kyubey once again, a more powerful Magical Girl will appear.

Anyway, I do believe that if Madoka wishes to go back in time before the battle starts, It'd have another effect, like Sayaka getting offed.

[Jimmy C]

Originally Posted by NaweG

Personally the thing I don't get is why Kyubey can't fight the witches on his own if he's the powerful evil that folks seem to think he is.

If you know of genies, the answer is kind of obvious. Just like a genie, he can only manifest all that reality-altering power one way, through granting wishes.

Originally Posted by Jaieni

Or wishing for magic to never to have existed in the first place.

Leaving aside potential paradoxes. The wisher might still find herself stuck with a gradually dimming soul gem and no witches to keep it lit. When it dies, either she becomes a witch or the wish dies and magic comes back into the world. In the end, a wasted wish.

[Eisdrache]

And here I am expecting a lighthearted show. After episode 3 the realization that this show is done by Nitro+ slapped me back to reality pretty hard. I was never that fond of Mami and right when I start warming up for her she GODDAMN DIES (╬ ಠ益ಠ) RAGE

This show just got 3 more layers of awesomeness but they just had to kill the gunner first

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

This show just got 3 more layers of awesomeness but they just had to kill the gunner first

Well they couldn't really kill off anyone else that the two girls personally like in the magical girl universe. Homura is still too mysterious to die out as well, so the only target left was the gunner they meet very, very early.

[zato_1one]

What if Madoka chooses to revive Mami but the consequence is her family have an accident and die. Do you think that it is still cheapen Mami's death?

[Patriot's Blade]

DAMN IT!!!! why do snipers always have to die?, oh wait there's Yoko....

[aeriolewinters]

Lockon,Mikhail...now this...

[seiftis]

Originally Posted by zato_1one

What if Madoka chooses to revive Mami but the consequence is her family have an accident and die. Do you think that it is still cheapen Mami's death?

Do it! More drama.

Series seriously needs 26 eps instead.

[subazoke]

this series reminds me of NARUTARU

[chaos_animagic]

<-- Shredded a tear when Mami suddenly died ;(

Mami wa so awesome too... I loved her way to fighting.