Criticism of when women do the voices of 13+ boys in anime

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Akito Kinomoto

I'm not sure about the male side, but Satomi Arai gave the teenage Kuroko Shirai of Railgun an old lady's voice. Or maybe just her natural voice. Whatever it was, it worked; worked at making Japanese Kuroko damn near insufferable. Thank goodness the English dub rectified that.

Oh yes, my joke was to watch Railgun on mute. Then I realized that wouldn't help since I shouldn't have watched it in the first place. (I haven't seen season 2 though...)

[Akito Kinomoto]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Oh yes, my joke was to watch Railgun on mute. Then I realized that wouldn't help since I shouldn't have watched it in the first place. (I haven't seen season 2 though...)

You are watching a subtitled video right. If you're muting dat English dub...

Originally Posted by Sackett

Wasn't the "old lady" voice specifically requested? Didn't the original novel have a reference to Kuroko talking like an old lady?

I think she's supposed to sound like a teenager trying to pretend that she is a sophisticated lady and just coming off as annoying and childish.

Well with taking that into account, Kuroko's Japanese voice is actually very successful at being annoying. Not really a creative decision I like though.

Originally Posted by Eragon

LMAO. I'm sure the way someone dresses totally changes their pitch. All them girls dressing in shirts and pants sure have Brad Pit's voice.

...I've resisted the urge to make a crack on how Mari Okada would thrive on these casting roles.

[Kadmos1]

Originally Posted by Westlo

The standout bad example of this would be Noto Mamiko's Kouta from Kanokon, such a miscast, she doesn't have the voice to pull off a male character. I think she did one other male character in...

Also not really a fan of Goku's DBZ voice though I can understand why they did it since they wanted to retain the same seiyuu...

I remembering watching that on Crunchyroll before they went legit. I too hated such a voice. Seriously, I find it annoying that it's fairly common that to have a wussy character (Armin and Mirai Nikki's Yuuki come to mind), they choose a woman. There are young male VAs out there that can do it more authentically

I find that most female-voiced teen boys or older I've heard sound unnatural or forced. The same thing applies to men doing said voices but I think it sounds more convincing when it comes from a guy.

Eragon, I was thinking of Ranma and Hideyoshi when writing those conditions. I also said I allow some exceptions outside of that.

[Subayai]

Originally Posted by Akito Kinomoto

Well with taking that into account, Kuroko's Japanese voice is actually very successful at being annoying. Not really a creative decision I like though.

Kuroko's voice is not supposed to be annoying and it is not. It's certainly very unique so I understand someone may dislike it but I find it to be very a pleasant and lovely voice. It's subjective. For me, that voice makes the character much more likeable. Actually, I wish she had more lines just so we could hear more of her.

Besides, whether you like the voice or not, everyone should be able to recognize that Satomi Arai did an outstanding job as Kuroko. She even won a Seiyuu Award as Supporting Actress for it. She was perfectly cast for that role.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Subayai

Kuroko's voice is not supposed to be annoying and it is not. It's certainly very unique so I understand someone may dislike it but I find it to be very a pleasant and lovely voice. It's subjective. For me, that voice makes the character much more likeable. Actually, I wish she had more lines just so we could hear more of her.

Besides, whether you like the voice or not, everyone should be able to recognize that Satomi Arai did an outstanding job as Kuroko. She even won a Seiyuu Award as Supporting Actress for it. She was perfectly cast for that role.

I agree that Satomi Arai did a very good job as Kuroko and that made the character very unique and distinctive, but I must also agree with those that say Kuroko doesn't sound like a teenager at all.


Regarding the issue of women voicing young male or androgynous characters, I generally have no problem when the voice actresses actually put an effort in talking like someone of the opposite sex.

Mitsuki Saiga, Yu Kobayashi and Romi Park do a very good job at that (especially the first) and their "male voice" is significantly different from their "female voice".


I've seen Armin being cited frequently in this topic, and I think that's mainly because whether Marina Inoue voices him or Kana from minami-ke, there's basically no difference. You could take excerpts of her voice from one anime and put it into another and you wouldn't notice.

[ninryu]

I'm the only one who actually really likes Armin's voice? I think it fits him perfectly.

[GDiddy]

Originally Posted by Kadmos1

I know there's the issue of male seiyuu sounding too forced when playing a 13+ male character or the issue of child labor laws that they can't get a real male teen to play a teen male. However, this is not about that.

I feel that no 13+ guy should have a woman's voice except when he gets turned into a girl, is very effeminate/androgynous, or regularly cross dresses. There are some exceptions I'll take outside of these but I don't know when yet.

What I've seen of the Japanese version of Mirai Nikki, Yukii was especially guilty of thi and it's seem especially out of place to me when it's a harem/fan service heavy show

Sasha in Seikon no Qwaser might sound more masculine but I still think it's miscast and not as convincing as the Japanese Naruto. Heck, I find the Japanese Naruto the most convincing voice of a 13+ female-voiced male.

I know that adult Goku has a kid mentality but I don't think that justifies that he still has a woman's voice (even if the creator picked the seiyuu) because you could still carry the personality that Goku has sans the female voice.

Whiny teens like Armin and Shinji can still convey the same personality using male voices.

That being said, what 13+ guy do you do think it was a miscast for the Japanese to have a female voice for him?

Just as there threads praising a Japanese VA doing a role, this is 1 of those threads that does the opposite.

The only time I ever thought it sounded off was the woman who used to do Kenshin's voice in Rurouni Kenshin, but otherwise, most actresses sound fine.

[AntonKutovoi]

Don't know... I always thought that Mayo Suzukaze as Kenshin was great, especially at serious moments. And after the first OVA I simply can't imagine Kenshin being voiced by anyone else.

[SeijiSensei]

My first encounter with the talented Sawashiro Miyuki was hearing her voice Kurenai Shinkarou. Though I was more enchanted with the remarkable performance by the young Aoi Yuuki in the role of Murasaki, Sawashiro gave a fine performance as Shinkarou. Once in a while I'd hear telltale signs that the seiyuu was female, but they were few and far between.

[Kadmos1]

The high-pitched girly voices are the reason why I most of my subbed anime muted. Occasionally, I do turn the audio on. However, sometimes, for a show with a girly-voiced guy, it's merely to see how awful I feel they sound and think, "A guy should've done that voice or hopefully he will be voiced by a guy if it gets dubbed".

Just as people are free to have reasons not to like a dub performance, I am free not to enjoy a voice in Japanese version.

Notice, I how am not trying to pass this off as fact but rather my opinion with phrases like "to me" or "I feel that".

This topic was made not to discuss when people like when a woman voices a guy but the opposite.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by Kadmos1

This topic was made not to discuss when people like when a woman voices a guy but the opposite.

Well, you really can't control the flow of discussion in this thread. I also think the general tone of comments suggests that most people here disagree with you or at least are not as offended as you by women voicing young boys.

[Flower]

Edit: Okay. Thread re-opened.

If another heated brouhaha (aka rooster fight) in the thread takes place then infractions will be directly given with no warnings involved.

Remember folks, the raw data or opinion one has is one thing, and the way you communicate and interact with other posters is quite another. Let's try to keep the discussion civil.

[relentlessflame]

So I want to make a comment about the argument that happened earlier and this thread in general.

To be honest, this thread was sort of on thin ice from the get-go, and I tried to address that a little bit by slightly editing the thread title and with my earlier post. I think the actual discussion of how female voice actors can pull off young-male voices and how people felt about it is potentially interesting, and I have no problem with that. But underlying this whole thread is a bizarre sort of misogyny that I feel I need to address more directly.

If a female voice actor is best-suited to perform the role as envisioned by the director and voice/ADR director, then the female voice actor deserves to get the role. It would be doing a disservice to the work, to the audience, and to the actors involved, for a male to get the role on the basis of their or the character's gender alone, if another choice best-fits the actual character. Obviously, people will have opinions about casting choices, which may be impacted in some ways by it being a foreign language; the listener may not know what a child that age might normally sound like for the sake of comparison. They also may simply find it difficult to enjoy the sound of certain voices, despite the director's choice; you can't necessarily change this sort of preference. (As we saw in this thread, some people hate the casting choice for Kuroko, while others find it brilliant.) Critics will often consider whether they feel certain roles were miscast given the apparent intention of the work and the characterization therein.

However, implying that cross-gender voice casting is somehow "inappropriate" or "unfortunate" for no other reason than "men should always be played by men" can certainly be seen as sexist, whether or not you're saying that women are "incapable" or should be "forbidden" from doing so. The very attitude that an actor is a wrong pick on the basis of their gender alone is discriminatory and offensive. This sort of viewpoint isn't appropriate for being part of any conversation on this forum, not least because people will understandably attack this disagreeable belief/attitude rather than focusing on aspects of the conversation that can remain constructive.

If we want to have a discussion about specific roles, casting decisions, the impact the casting decision had on the character, tell-tale signs that break immersion for you, or all sorts of other things, that's totally open for discussion. Like I said, I think this can be an interesting topic, and there is plenty to discuss. But posts that tend towards the above will be deleted for being offensive, and will likely result in further moderator action. If you see such a post in this or any other thread, please report it. Our intention is to keep the forum free of discrimination by age, race, gender, nationality, language, weight/height, religion, sexual orientation, mental or physical condition, or any other factor. For more information, please review our policy on constructive posting.

If anyone has a question or concern about anything in this post, please feel free to contact me or another member of the staff.

[GDiddy]

Originally Posted by AntonKutovoi

Don't know... I always thought that Mayo Suzukaze as Kenshin was great, especially at serious moments. And after the first OVA I simply can't imagine Kenshin being voiced by anyone else.

I think it was because in my head, Kenshin would've had a male voice similar to the dub version(which is what I saw first actually)

Nowadays though....yeah, Suzukaze's the only one who I can hear playing him indeed.

Romi Paku though...she's probably the biggest VA I know of that's made her living voicing boys. Hitsugaya and Ed are icons.

Megumi Ogata seems to be another one who voices males a lot.

[Kadmos1]

I'm more for men doing the voices of 13+ boys in nearly all circumstances (specifically, in harem/fan service titles,
because I find it distracting if a clumsy MC is on a guy and that MC is voiced by a woman. To me, it just feels unnatural for this. If it was more boyish voice like Junko Takeuchi as Naruto, I am more forgiving). That is, if I was to watch 100 anime titles where a 13+ MC is voiced by a girl, I think that perhaps only 10 (at most) are the right fit if he isn't androgynous, cross-dressing, or get turned into a girl.

I think it is also possible that even if the director approved a woman doing the voice of a main guy, the casting choice was a mistake (depending on the character and their personality).

I think it's more natural to have a guy to a teen boy's voice based on how their voice sounds but I don't think it's my intent to object based on the gender. It's more so the voice.

[hyl]

@kadmos
I am with Hiroi Sekai: So is there an actual point to your topic? You are not convincing most of us to share your idea nor you are using this thread to constructively discuss what need to be changed about seiyuus
From what i can read your entire reason for disliking that female seiyuus are used for male teens is because you (heavily subjective) don't think that these kind of voices fit, despite that the majority of us and probably most of the japanese viewers don't mind it for reasons stated earlier in this thread.
Sometimes the picked seiyuu can questionable, but you are going as far as saying that the voice director completely miscasted the female seiyuu

Can you give us some more examples of your socalled miscastings and examples of who could have been casted into that role more convincingly ? Because you are making it sound that only 10 % of all the female seiyuus are doing a good/decent job at voicing teen/adolscent male or boy characters, which imo sounds either insulting or denigrating for both the seiyuus and the voice directors

[GDiddy]

Originally Posted by hyl

@kadmos
I am with Hiroi Sekai: So is there an actual point to your topic? You are not convincing most of us to share your idea nor you are using this thread to constructively discuss what need to be changed about seiyuus
From what i can read your entire reason for disliking that female seiyuus are used for male teens is because you (heavily subjective) don't think that these kind of voices fit, despite that the majority of us and probably most of the japanese viewers don't mind it for reasons stated earlier in this thread.
Sometimes the picked seiyuu can questionable, but you are going as far as saying that the voice director completely miscasted the female seiyuu

Can you give us some more examples of your socalled miscastings and examples of who could have been casted into that role more convincingly ? Because you are making it sound that only 10 % of all the female seiyuus are doing a good/decent job at voicing teen/adolscent male or boy characters, which imo sounds either insulting or denigrating for both the seiyuus and the voice directors

Seriously. OP sounds sexist.

On topic: I didn't like Marina Inoue as Armin in AoT. She just sounded out of place.

[Kadmos1]

When they have an Armin or Shinji character (those weak and whiny characters that are seemingly useless), they might opt to go for a woman. I think a male can portray a "sissy" character. Sometimes, they can get a teen male seiyuu to do said voice

From my experience, only a handful of female seiyuu have been convincing as boys. However, I'm sure there's a lot more I haven't heard that do a good job (I'm not saying that it's only 10% overall but a really low amount from my experience).

An example of a miscast would be, as was mentioned, Mamiko Nota as Kouta in Kanokon. I see more of a Jun Fukuyama's Rail Wars! voice for him. I can picture a whiny Lelouch being attacked by a hot fox wolf spirit.

The Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's character Luciano I fail is a miscast but I don't know which male seiyuu would've been better.

If the voice of Xamd's Yango was born earlier than late Jun. 1996, I think he would've been more of a natural fit for Cyborg 001 in the 2001 Cyborg 009.

I do think that is indeed possible for a casting director to make a mistake in casting. The thing I think that is really important to consider in casting choices is looking at the personality of the characters and determining what is the most convincing voice.

A hypothetical is if they were to make a faithful anime version of the Odyssey.From the Spark Notes Odyssey article, the "Analysis of Major Characters" describes Odysseus as:

Odysseus has the defining character traits of a Homeric leader: strength, courage, nobility, a thirst for glory, and confidence in his authority. His most distinguishing trait, however, is his sharp intellect. Odysseus’s quick thinking helps him out of some very tough situations, as when he escapes from the cave of the Cyclops in Book 9, or when he hides his slaughter of the suitors by having his minstrel strike up a wedding tune in Book 23. He is also a convincing, articulate speaker and can win over or manipulate his audience with ease. When he first addresses Nausicaa on the island of Scheria, for example, his suave, comforting approach quickly wins her trust.

Like other Homeric heroes, Odysseus longs to win kleos (“glory” won through great deeds), but he also wishes to complete his nostos (“homecoming”). He enjoys his luxurious life with Calypso in an exotic land, but only to a point. Eventually, he wants to return home, even though he admits that his wife cannot compare with Calypso. He thinks of home throughout the time he spends with the Phaeacians and also while on Circe’s island. Sometimes his glory-seeking gets in the way of his home-seeking, however. He sacks the land of the Cicones but loses men and time in the process. He waits too long in the cave of Polyphemus, enjoying the free milk and cheese he finds, and is trapped there when the Cyclops returns.

Homeric characters are generally static. Though they may be very complex and realistic, they do not change over the course of the work as characters in modern novels and stories do. Odysseus and especially Telemachus break this rule. Early in his adventures, Odysseus’s love of glory prompts him to reveal his identity to the Cyclops and bring Poseidon’s wrath down on him. By the end of the epic, he seems much more willing to temper pride with patience. Disguised as a beggar, he does not immediately react to the abuse he receives from the suitors. Instead, he endures it until the traps he has set and the loyalties he has secured put him in a position from which he can strike back effectively.

A character like this I see having the voice of Madara Uchiha from Shippuden.

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Kadmos1

I think a male can portray a "sissy" character. Sometimes, they can get a teen male seiyuu to do said voice

In all seriousness, do you even know how many teen male seiyuus there are in the seiyuu industry? You will rarely hear them unless they used to be child actors and if you do hear it's more likely that you will hear male teen or child seiyuus for a role in an animated movie not for anime tv shows

[Kadmos1]

Well, you wanted me to give examples. Tetsuya Kakihara's voice for Natsu may sound forced but I find that more convincing for some teen male voices than if you were to have Inoue's Armin be the voice.