Anyone wish there are more mecha anime....

[kaisama]

That is all about light-hearted and simple fun? Because nowsaday it seem they all focus on grimdarks and loldeep. Nothing wrong with some of them but I miss stuffs like Eldoran series (I want my school transforms into giant robots too) and NG Knight Lamune & 40. I don't know, I find a kid like Jin is more manly than many male teenage protagonists these day, which is kinda scary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lptixGqeLg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3lkNKFpBxo

Wonder when will I see ops like these again, *sigh*

[Salt]

No offence.

But those appear to be kid shows.
Probably way too cheesy for most of us here - base on my observations, majorly of the posters here appear to be at least in their early teens, .

For most part, shows like those appear to have been replaced by Pokemon and Digimon or that miniature race car show.

But some things never change.
All of them, old or new, are basically expensive long running ads to sell toys to kids. :P

[mechdra]

I believe we need these series again especially those mecha anime with no realism in it. The Brave series is long dead and japanese Transformers is dead as well.

[Tsuyukusa]

I love mecha, but I don't think I would be able to get into the shows in the links you posted. Lightheartedness is good, but they seem a little too childish.
I don't mind depth in mecha. In fact, I think it makes the series more interesting. I do think mech has sort of a niche audience though, even for anime.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by kaisama

That is all about light-hearted and simple fun? Because nowsaday it seem they all focus on grimdarks and loldeep. Nothing wrong with some of them but I miss stuffs like Eldoran series (I want my school transforms into giant robots too) and NG Knight Lamune & 40. I don't know, I find a kid like Jin is more manly than many male teenage protagonists these day, which is kinda scary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lptixGqeLg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3lkNKFpBxo

Wonder when will I see ops like these again, *sigh*

I remember those show back in the days... good times. Looking back very cheesy, but still they did have their charm. Those shows are essentially for kids, despite that I wouldn't mind light hearted show like that.

[mechalord]

Mecha genre kind of peaked a while ago. You get a good mecha series once a year if you're lucky A lot of the mecha anime is not that great. Gundam 00/Code Geass quality stuff comes by once in a while.

The Bones series airing atm doesn't seem to be my cup of tea.

[asaqe]

And mecha back then was toyetic in nature. The ultimate goal of mecha is not to sell DVD but to see how many plastic models/toys are sold. Until we can get that feel again with the next generation of children, there won't be as much mecha anime

[Guernsey]

Gundam pretty much changed eveything if I am accurate.

[kaisama]

Those are family shows, but those are in the early 90s so the teens here probably never heard of them but in Japan they was pretty popular.

As if corny grimdark emo loldeep shows with emo androgynous protagonists are any better, they come off as trying too hard most of the time. And no, I don't count things like Code Geass as good./I'm very angry about...etc.

At least thing like Raijin oh got accepted by parents because of school elements, it's pretty much a family shows instead of just please nerds.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by kaisama

That is all about light-hearted and simple fun? Because nowsaday it seem they all focus on grimdarks and loldeep. Nothing wrong with some of them but I miss stuffs like Eldoran series (I want my school transforms into giant robots too) and NG Knight Lamune & 40. I don't know, I find a kid like Jin is more manly than many male teenage protagonists these day, which is kinda scary.

Wonder when will I see ops like these again, *sigh*

I would like to see more mecha anime in general really, whether serious or simple fun. There have been some lighthearted and fun mecha's made last few years, but most are remakes or expansions of 70s and 80s hits like Shin Mazinger, Getter Robo, Dancougar, Gaiking or Reideen and tend to be a bit darker then the originals. Even something totally over the top like Gurren Lagan is pretty retro. Still if I look at the popularity of SRW and Gunpla, I'm not worried about the future.

As for OP's like that I would love to see those return. I still get the chills from dragonars second OP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ce1D50QIrE

Fun and adventure is something I miss in anime in general these days, and not just mecha. I assume the industry reflects the (difficult) times, where fans look more for soothing, wish-fulfilling material instead of shows to escape the bores of daily life. Not a bad thing, but it leaves me sometimes longing for more anime like those made during more optimistic times.

Originally Posted by Salt

No offence.
But those appear to be kid shows.
Probably way too cheesy for most of us here - base on my observations, majorly of the posters here appear to be at least in their early teens, .

For most part, shows like those appear to have been replaced by Pokemon and Digimon or that miniature race car show.

But some things never change.
All of them, old or new, are basically expensive long running ads to sell toys to kids. :P

In contrast, anime aimed at "adults" are long adds to sell DVD's and character merchandise, totally different...oh wait.

If the recent success of movies like Transformers and the A-team is any indication, adults tend to be pretty nostalgic about those cheesy shows from their childhoods.

[asaqe]

It's not just that, mecha deep down is a toyetic genre, each type of anime is an advertisement campaign of sorts, you may make some money airing shows and having good ratings. But for some of the major franchises, success is defined by different reasons. Mecha anime deep down is the ultimate merchandise driven series. You want to make as much money from the models, this is coined by many Transformer fans as the "TO SELL TOYS" rule. If your series fail to sell models or toy robots, you are doing something horribly wrong. This is reflected by SEED Destiny, the series is popular with the female crowd but failed in it's objective to sell enough models to impress the stockholders. The fact that there are less kids to buy toy robots doesn't help.

Another side effect is the gundam bubble burst of the 90's, as much as we liked the exposure of Wing, Gundam as a model seller was getting weak in sales with X being the straw that broke the camel's back. When X was cancelled, we had an ice age of Gundam. The fact that the Gundam X made a series criticising Sunrise's toy driven agenda didn't help. That is why you saw less gundam. To let it lay fallow and allow the model spender to save money for when the next gundam series comes around.

Deep down, if the merchandise of an anime series doesn't sell, it will be put on the chopping block

[Salt]

Originally Posted by kaisama

Those are family shows, but those are in the early 90s so the teens here probably never heard of them but in Japan they was pretty popular.

As if corny grimdark emo loldeep shows with emo androgynous protagonists are any better, they come off as trying too hard most of the time. And no, I don't count things like Code Geass as good./I'm very angry about...etc.

At least thing like Raijin oh got accepted by parents because of school elements, it's pretty much a family shows instead of just please nerds.

At times I question the existence of these so called family shows.

If the plot line too sophisticated, you will lose the kids, if it's too simple the adults will get bored.
There is also the content of the show, war and drama are out for kids as they won't get it, some show about kids playing and competing with "latest kid toy" will bored most adults to tears.

You can try to blend it like in Star Trek:TNG by introducing a kid friendly character (aka Wesley Crusher), but story arcs involving said character might annoy the adult viewers and kids will be bored at all the adult talking parts.

Or you go and make the most generic, "safe" and watered-down shows like Hollywood.

In the words of Bill Cosby:

I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody.

Anime is an interesting medium due to it's relatively low cost.
This allows them to make shows about niche topics and cater to niche audiences while still be profitable.

Edit:
Anyway, I think the point I was trying to make was, the wider you make the appeal, the less appealing the show becomes (you won't get the level of "devotion" compared to the anime we usually see here).
By targeting a narrower market segment, you can create "better" shows.

Now that I think about it you want some family friendly anime I suppose there are the Miyazaki films. A lot of people are big fans, although while I find them entertaining enough I never understood what the big deal was. :x

Originally Posted by Bri

In contrast, anime aimed at "adults" are long adds to sell DVD's and character merchandise, totally different...oh wait.

If the recent success of movies like Transformers and the A-team is any indication, adults tend to be pretty nostalgic about those cheesy shows from their childhoods.

Hey hey, I never said that it was "totally different".

From what I heard late night anime practically have no sponsors, and the creators actually pay the TV stations to air the anime instead of the other way around.
They recoup their cost via DVDs, figurings etc as you mentioned. It's their business model.**

Difference between the two is that one is aimed at kids and the other at teens and above.
Their content is of course tailored to their intended audience.

Some people be might feel nostalgic about their childhood TV shows, but I'm not one of them. Most are severely dated and no longer appeal to my sensibilities.

Edit:
**Although I will have to say it's a bit less "manipulative" though IMO, since from what I know they rely mostly on DVD sales - the other stuff is probably just gravy.
The mechanism is similar to you watching something at the movie theatre, then buying the DVD when it comes out because you like it so much.
They are actually selling you the show, instead of just using the show as an ad.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by kaisama

Those are family shows, but those are in the early 90s so the teens here probably never heard of them but in Japan they was pretty popular.

As if corny grimdark emo loldeep shows with emo androgynous protagonists are any better, they come off as trying too hard most of the time. And no, I don't count things like Code Geass as good./I'm very angry about...etc.

At least thing like Raijin oh got accepted by parents because of school elements, it's pretty much a family shows instead of just please nerds.

I don't comprehend getting mad at tv shows and am kind of glad I don't. Getting bothered by character designs being handsome and appealing to women would suck. I can't imagine getting hung up on that sort of thing, it just seems so...trivial.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by Salt

Anime is an interesting medium due to it's relatively low cost.This allows them to make shows about niche topics and cater to niche audiences while still be profitable.

Unfortunately animation is horribly expensive to make. The only reason anime still exists today is that studio's are absolutely ruthless in cutting costs since the days of Osamu Tezuka (resulting in terrible working conditions). The focus on a nice market is not by choice but from necessity. Only animation fans/otaku are prepared to pay the very high prices.

Originally Posted by Salt

From what I heard late night anime practically have no sponsors, and the creators actually pay the TV stations to air the anime instead of the other way around.
They recoup their cost via DVDs, figurings etc as you mentioned. It's their business model.**

You have heard wrong. Both daytime and late night anime rely heavily on sponsors and both need to pay the networks for slots. The difference is that smaller companies can sponsor late night shows due to the lower cost of late night slots and that most of these firms are affiliated with the industry: advertising agencies, publishers, music labels, dvd-producers, toy companies etc.

The animation studios themselves are at the bottom of the food chain and pretty much make what has been decided in the production committee (although some of the larger studios have more influence). Ideally you would buy a show instead of an add. Unfortunately this is rarely the case as creative freedom is severely restricted by financial considerations. Risk aversion often leads to more of the same once a hit-formula proves successful. There is much clichéd, low cost material out there that tries to hook the fan on pretty stereotype character A,B,C or D (instead of the show itself) without worrying much about plot or character development. So were back at the commercial again.

It's not surprising that anime where creators have more freedom to pursue what they like end up making the most interesting material (which does not equal most profitable). This is far more important then the target audience. Taking it back to mecha as we're faring of topic. Some of the best received mecha of recent years like Eureka 7 and Gurren Lagann aired in sunday mornings children's time slots.

[kaisama]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

I don't comprehend getting mad at tv shows and am kind of glad I don't. Getting bothered by character designs being handsome and appealing to women would suck. I can't imagine getting hung up on that sort of thing, it just seems so...trivial.

Because if you went from someone like Kenshirou to the like of Shinji is pretty much...decline

I asked many women (normal and straight women, not fujoshi or fangirls) before, most them actually don't find those appealing but whatever.



I blame Evangelion

Some people be might feel nostalgic about their childhood TV shows, but I'm not one of them. Most are severely dated and no longer appeal to my sensibilities

I've grown up but still not pretentious enough to deny something I like in the past, I like them before, chances are I like them now just the same...Thanks god SRW Neo came along.

And I agree adventure is something today's anime lack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y5uNT95k70

Make me want to watch NG Knight Lamune & 40 DX again...

not really light hearted but damn, jushin liger is epic (I hate that word)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmBegs61myM

[synaesthetic]

I want a BattleTech animation.

Seriously.

I don't like Super Robot shows, and I'm slightly tossed off at Gundam as of late for treading closer and closer to Super Robot territory. I enjoyed TTGL for the humor more than the mecha, and my favorite mecha series are things like The 08th MS Team and FLAG.

I'd like to see more Real Robot series.

Less TTGL-style acid trips.

Less CG-style FABULOUS excuses for fujoshi to write slashfics.

Less NGE-style grimdark loldeep psychological mindfucks

More pure military drama with the tanks replaced with Humongous Mecha.

Let's see BattleTech in animated form. Or Front Mission, Heavy Gear, Armored Core, Earthsiege, etc. Let's see more shows like FLAG, more shows like Gasaraki (minus the bizarre Noh mysticism), more shows like Patlabor and VOTOMS.

Edit: ... and truth be told, for the first half or so of the first season of Code Geass, it was like a breath of fresh air. The mecha were a little weird in some ways, but they were basically walking tanks! They didn't fly. They didn't leap around like ballerinas. They weren't oddly-shaped starfighters (lolgundam). They were ground units that served as armored cavalry, just like modern-day tanks. I was reminded so heavily of Front Mission while watching the first few mech fights in CG that I was instantly hooked.

As time went on (and Lancelot and Guren were introduced), the show slid toward Super Robot, the FABULOUS was increased, CLAMP's influence became ridiculously obvious, and I was saddened that it wasn't truly Real Robot.

[kaisama]

The real robot idea is kinda silly to me, because mecha shows are unreal and defy logic to begin with, some are actually fun to watch though.

Also I want to see more fantasy based mech like ryu knight

[Crimrui]

There should have been more D&D fantasy anime (example: Record of Lodoss War) but yeah I guess I can say that few new fantasy-based mecha anime would be welcome as well.

[Salt]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

I want a BattleTech animation.

Seriously.

I don't like Super Robot shows, and I'm slightly tossed off at Gundam as of late for treading closer and closer to Super Robot territory. I enjoyed TTGL for the humor more than the mecha, and my favorite mecha series are things like The 08th MS Team and FLAG.

I'd like to see more Real Robot series.

...

More pure military drama with the tanks replaced with Humongous Mecha.

Let's see BattleTech in animated form. Or Front Mission, Heavy Gear, Armored Core, Earthsiege, etc. Let's see more shows like FLAG, more shows like Gasaraki (minus the bizarre Noh mysticism), more shows like Patlabor and VOTOMS.

Edit: ... and truth be told, for the first half or so of the first season of Code Geass, it was like a breath of fresh air. The mecha were a little weird in some ways, but they were basically walking tanks! They didn't fly. They didn't leap around like ballerinas. They weren't oddly-shaped starfighters (lolgundam). They were ground units that served as armored cavalry, just like modern-day tanks. I was reminded so heavily of Front Mission while watching the first few mech fights in CG that I was instantly hooked.

As time went on (and Lancelot and Guren were introduced), the show slid toward Super Robot, the FABULOUS was increased, CLAMP's influence became ridiculously obvious, and I was saddened that it wasn't truly Real Robot.

Agreed about the real robot stuff, in fact I started a thread on it.
But mecha otakus that like detailed tech in their anime are a dying breed.

Less TTGL-style acid trips.

Less CG-style FABULOUS excuses for fujoshi to write slashfics.

Less NGE-style grimdark loldeep psychological mindfucks

I don't mind the above stuff you complained about though.

Originally Posted by Bri

Unfortunately animation is horribly expensive to make. The only reason anime still exists today is that studio's are absolutely ruthless in cutting costs since the days of Osamu Tezuka (resulting in terrible working conditions). The focus on a nice market is not by choice but from necessity. Only animation fans/otaku are prepared to pay the very high prices.

You have heard wrong. Both daytime and late night anime rely heavily on sponsors and both need to pay the networks for slots. The difference is that smaller companies can sponsor late night shows due to the lower cost of late night slots and that most of these firms are affiliated with the industry: advertising agencies, publishers, music labels, dvd-producers, toy companies etc.

The animation studios themselves are at the bottom of the food chain and pretty much make what has been decided in the production committee (although some of the larger studios have more influence). Ideally you would buy a show instead of an add. Unfortunately this is rarely the case as creative freedom is severely restricted by financial considerations. Risk aversion often leads to more of the same once a hit-formula proves successful. There is much clichéd, low cost material out there that tries to hook the fan on pretty stereotype character A,B,C or D (instead of the show itself) without worrying much about plot or character development. So were back at the commercial again.

It's not surprising that anime where creators have more freedom to pursue what they like end up making the most interesting material (which does not equal most profitable). This is far more important then the target audience. Taking it back to mecha as we're faring of topic. Some of the best received mecha of recent years like Eureka 7 and Gurren Lagann aired in sunday mornings children's time slots.

It's still cheaper then live-action productions if I'm right.
And we do see more variety of topics in anime than on live-action TV in Japan.

I consider myself corrected on the sponsor issue.

Well, I agree that most of it is simply entertainment (yay Capitalism ?), and for most part I don't see anything wrong with that, but on occasion a few gems do slip though.

Originally Posted by kaisama

I've grown up but still not pretentious enough to deny something I like in the past, I like them before, chances are I like them now just the same...Thanks god SRW Neo came along.

It's not a matter of pretentiousness, it's more that I can see how "simple" & cheesy the stories are now that I'm an adult. My taste have simply changed, like how I don't read children's picture books any more.

Shows for kids and shows for adults are simply 2 difference beasts.

And I agree adventure is something today's anime lack

Agreed. Don't see much of that today.

Could be cost... the large number of "sets" required will be costly to create.

The last one I saw was Nadia, but you may not like it - the drama got quite heavy at the end (it is Hideaki Anno's Gainax after all), not to mention there is a little fanservice.

The real robot idea is kinda silly to me, because mecha shows are unreal and defy logic to begin with, some are actually fun to watch though.

Also I want to see more fantasy based mech like ryu knight

I don't see why you insist on your show being completely technically accurate or completely in fantasy-land.

You can mix them.
In fact, having realistic elements in fantasy (sci-fic or sword and sorcery) helps ground the show for the audience, helps the suspension of belief.

It's an old maxim for Sci-fic, to quote James Cameron "The more fantastic the subject, the more realistic the situation needs to be."

[Tsuyukusa]

Originally Posted by Salt

It's not a matter of pretentiousness, it's more that I can see how "simple" & cheesy the stories are now that I'm an adult. My taste have simply changed, like how I don't read children's picture books any more.

Shows for kids and shows for adults are simply 2 difference beasts.

I think this sums things up quite well.
I appreciate the series I watched as a kid, but I don't actively seek out that kind of entertainment anymore. I don't relate to the same things I did when I was 8 years old.