Shingeki no Kyojin (Attack on Titan) - Manga discussion

[Kanon]

Yaegerist are the biggest problem, since they worship the guy who killed 80% of the population. That'd be like the nazis staying in power in Germany after WWII.

[foxbox360]

^ Pretty much and the world is more fuck up than ever. The last chapter Pretty much destroyed Eren character because I thought he would win and rule the world in a god like body but instead he confess he love Mikasa.��

[Router25]

^ Wait, so it's not about becoming human?
Eren, who hated each and every titan with his being that vowed to eradicate all titans, cannot be human?
That upon realizing that he (more importantly his lineage) are cursed to become titans, wanted to get rid or it all by sacrificing himself as a villain since talk no jutsu will never work?

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Ligerleon89

True, however just because the surviving Marley soldiers won't beef with Eldians doesn't mean that others other than them won't find a way to bring the fight to those they believe destroyed their world, even after news dropped that it was Eren that did it.

No, really, you see this is the whole difference between Lelouch and Eren, and why his plan couldn't possibly go the same way. Eren didn't do everything alone, he really couldn't have gone with that plan if he wasn't aided by the Jaegerists (which involved turning several Edlians into titans BTW). And the Jaegarists also happen to be supported by a sizable portion of the Paradis citizens and are openly and repeatedly advocating that the whole world except Eldians should be exterminated, and worse yet, even after all that happened, they are still saying that.

There's no way the world could ever offer an olive branch to unrepentant genocidal mass murders. At the very least the Jaegarists should be overthrown, processed for crimes against humanity, and the new government should publicly condemn the act.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Meh. They'd have found some reason to kill each other eventually.

As opposed to having already more than enough reasons to kill each others in the current situation.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

And where has that bleak vision gone? It's honestly been pretty hard to find since Marleyans and Eldians started forgiving each other and cooperating willy nilly.

Early on, Pixis and Eren talked, agreeing that a big common threat wouldn't be enough to unite people. In the last arc, Eren became a big common threat that united the people. Heck, he wasn't even a threat to Paradis, as such, but his friends still turned on him to join the global "let's kill Eren" effort.

You have this habit of taking a few exceptions and generalizing their action to the whole group in spite of overwhelming evidence of the contrary.

Marley didn't unite with Paradis, that didn't happen. A very small group of Eldians united with other Eldians from another faction aided by a lone Marleyan.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

You have this habit of taking a few exceptions and generalizing their action to the whole group in spite of overwhelming evidence of the contrary.

Marley didn't unite with Paradis, that didn't happen. A very small group of Eldians united with other Eldians from another faction aided by a lone Marleyan.

Yes. They're the bits that were actually shown, so I assume they're the bits that actually matter. To go back to my Star Wars comparison, and pretending the third trilogy doesn't exist, I don't finish RotJ and think to myself "and then the Empire splinters, but unfettered by Palpatine's insistence on compensating for something via super-weapons, one faction steamrolls the Rebel Alliance after its Pyrrhic victory and drives it back underground."

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by foxbox360

^ Pretty much and the world is more fuck up than ever. The last chapter Pretty much destroyed Eren character because I thought he would win and rule the world in a god like body but instead he confess he love Mikasa.��

Just what made you think he wanted to be God-Emperor of Mankind Dune Eldia?

[Ligerleon89]

Spoiler for More thoughts and speculations:

All Eren wanted to do was live his life. The Titans and killing them all were all that he thought about ever since his mother's death. And before that his dad injected him that allowed him to become a Titan. Since then, he's been up and down, getting his rear beat for things that not only due to the fear people had with Titans and view him with suspicion, but for something that he didn't had any choice from the beginning. He believed that the Titans outside the wall was responsible for a lot of things, even things that he'd blame them for since he never saw anything beyond the Wall, and assumed the worst.

The guy was drafted into a unit before he actually could make the choice for himself all the way, because of his power. And with that power, came harsh treatment from people who didn't even look his way until after the incident. He journeyed and found out that not only that people lived outside the Wall, but because of people on the other side feared them, to the point that his home was in danger of being destroyed by Marley. And it keeps going on from there even to the distant past where it all started with Ymir. Eren decided to follow along with a plan to ensure the Titans would all disappear, at the cost of his own. And though he had help, the Yeagerists wasn't aware of his true intentions. The problem with said plan is that genocide is a crime against humanity that usually is unforgivable, and when it comes to world destructing events, if a person is behind it, there's a good chance some survivors will find fault and even one may take action in the future in response to that.(I think I've repeated that twice already) That and he didn't exactly run it by his unit and his friends, keeping them all at bay until the end. Was it really necessary to kill nearly billions of people just because of the influence of one country that was so frightened about what they saw with the Titans, that a certain group decided to kill them all with enough support from their citizens? What about places beyond Marley? It stands to at least reason that there are different countries other than what we've known in the story.

That's a lot of lives lost just to protect his friends, and others beyond Marley also had lives too. They mostly just didn't have powers of titans compared to Paradis Island.

[Kanon]

So, what do you guys think about Ymir? That was some acute Stockholm Syndrome she suffered from. Why did she decide to free herself only now?

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Kanon

So, what do you guys think about Ymir? That was some acute Stockholm Syndrome she suffered from. Why did she decide to free herself only now?

She likely had Stockholm Syndrome, and needed to see if someone as irrationally in love as herself like Mikasa can break herself out ot it There is few French tubers that tries to explain it.

[Blaat]

Originally Posted by Sheba

She likely had Stockholm Syndrome, and needed to see if someone as irrationally in love as herself like Mikasa can break herself out ot it There is few French tubers that tries to explain it.

Pretty much how I see it, to add I think Eren convinced her that she can be free from that syndrome (chapter 122 or 123 I think) but it's Mikasa's actions that gave her the willpower to act.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Yes. They're the bits that were actually shown, so I assume they're the bits that actually matter. To go back to my Star Wars comparison, and pretending the third trilogy doesn't exist, I don't finish RotJ and think to myself "and then the Empire splinters, but unfettered by Palpatine's insistence on compensating for something via super-weapons, one faction steamrolls the Rebel Alliance after its Pyrrhic victory and drives it back underground."

That's a nice comparison, but is the impression that people had at the end of Return of the Jedi that the rebels, after dealing a fatal blow to the Empire, would just become friend with what remained of the Empire even as they kept ruling the planets with an iron fist as before?

Obviously not. The impression was that the Rebels would keep fighting the Empire with the difference that at that point their victory was sure.

In he same way the ending of AoT doesn't really give the impression that Paradis and the rest of the world would make peace.

Originally Posted by Sheba

She likely had Stockholm Syndrome, and needed to see if someone as irrationally in love as herself like Mikasa can break herself out ot it There is few French tubers that tries to explain it.

That's a logical interpretation, but if Ymir orchestrated the events so that precise point in time would happen, it means that she already knew it would happen. Why did she need to see it if she had already foreseen it?

I think part of her reasons were also to even out the balance of the world. Before the rumbling Paradis was doomed, after the Rumbling Paradis' survival is a coin toss. In the end in a way, she still protected Karl Fritz's legacy, with the same ruthlessness.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

That's a nice comparison, but is the impression that people had at the end of Return of the Jedi that the rebels, after dealing a fatal blow to the Empire, would just become friend with what remained of the Empire even as they kept ruling the planets with an iron fist as before?

Obviously not. The impression was that the Rebels would keep fighting the Empire with the difference that at that point their victory was sure.

In he same way the ending of AoT doesn't really give the impression that Paradis and the rest of the world would make peace.

Different situations.

Like you said, RotJ gives the impression the Rebels won, so that's what I'm going with.

Here, the impression is that Eren succeeded in making Armin a hero and averting annihilation for Paradis, so that's what I'm going with. It won't be all kisses and roses, but it'll be mostly alright.

[Jan-Poo]

But I'm not disagreeing with the fact that Armin and company were turned into heroes and that what remains of the world consider them saviors of humanity.

However the previous time an Eldian was turned into a hero, 100 years before, it didn't cause the rest of the world to think that maybe Eldians aren't devils.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

But I'm not disagreeing with the fact that Armin and company were turned into heroes and that what remains of the world consider them saviors of humanity.

However the previous time an Eldian was turned into a hero, 100 years before, it didn't cause the rest of the world to think that maybe Eldians aren't devils.

That's because the last guy who did that did it as part of a long term racial suicide, and the "hero" got behind the narrative that Eldians who weren't him or his family absolutely were devils.

Suicide isn't what Eren was going for (his personal sacrifice aside), and Armin's all about peaceful coexistence.

[Jan-Poo]

I don't really think the whole world dances on the palm of the "saviors" and does whatever they says. Rather than thinking that the whole world hated the Eldians because that's what the Tybur family told them, I think that the whole world loved the Tybur family because they kept telling them to hate the Eldians. Otherwise, maybe not all of them, but many would have grown suspicious and the popularity of the Tybur family would have dwindled.

Armin is clearly trying to bring peace to the world, but if 3 years after the facts the survivors still want to eradicate Paradis, it means that they don't care that much about what Armin says.

[Kanon]

Just when I had come to terms with the ending... extra pages from the last volume come out and change everything.

Spoiler for Final volume:

Mikasa gets together with Jean and they have kids. They even go visit Eren's grave, I bet he's super happy about that

Decades pass and Eren's friends die of old age. Paradis then gets destroyed. Yup.

And... it ends with a kid who looks a lot like Mikasa finding a tree (Eren's grave) that looks exactly like the one Ymir fell into.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Just when I had come to terms with the ending... extra pages from the last volume come out and change everything.

Spoiler for Final volume:

Mikasa gets together with Jean and they have kids. They even go visit Eren's grave, I bet he's super happy about that

Decades pass and Eren's friends die of old age. Paradis then gets destroyed. Yup.

And... it ends with a kid who looks a lot like Mikasa finding a tree (Eren's grave) that looks exactly like the one Ymir fell into.

Spoiler for Mikasa and fandom:

There is literally no winning move for Mikasa in the eyes of the fandom. She either spend her remaining days grieving over Eren and look like an idiot. Or she moves on and found a family wiht Jean, and becomes a wh*re in the eyes of the sfans.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Just when I had come to terms with the ending... extra pages from the last volume come out and change everything.

Spoiler for Final volume:

Mikasa gets together with Jean and they have kids. They even go visit Eren's grave, I bet he's super happy about that

Decades pass and Eren's friends die of old age. Paradis then gets destroyed. Yup.

And... it ends with a kid who looks a lot like Mikasa finding a tree (Eren's grave) that looks exactly like the one Ymir fell into.

Oh, for the love of...!

[grecefar]

well what a way to add more salt to the wound.

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Just when I had come to terms with the ending... extra pages from the last volume come out and change everything.

Spoiler for Final volume:

Mikasa gets together with Jean and they have kids. They even go visit Eren's grave, I bet he's super happy about that

Decades pass and Eren's friends die of old age. Paradis then gets destroyed. Yup.

And... it ends with a kid who looks a lot like Mikasa finding a tree (Eren's grave) that looks exactly like the one Ymir fell into.

I'll wait until all the pages are out, but if this is true then I have to wonder if Isayama actually wants even people that liked the ending to hate it too