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Old 2021-02-05, 20:08   Link #81
Guardian Enzo
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No, it's really not. Sometimes there are clear rights and wrongs. Objective truth does exist no matter how hard some people try to devalue the truth. And this ridiculous "both sides" BS is at the very heart of the problem.
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Old 2021-02-06, 03:33   Link #82
Jaden
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I'm going to say "both sides" til the day I die. I don't think that makes me better than you, though.

Enlightenement gained from disillusionment is not a virtue. It's always the people with moral convictions who take a side and believe in it, that affect change in the world. Fence-sitters like me can at best have better luck with their gambling.

In other news, here's some more bothsides-BS for you.
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Old 2021-02-06, 03:39   Link #83
Magin
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I actually have to agree about "Both Sides" being the case here. Or to be more accurate... what we call the Democratic Party is made up of multiple factions that are actually different from each other.

And it's all about corporate donations. Both republicans and moderate Democrats are generally in politics for long enough that they have corporations supporting them. The problem is, the Progressives (such as AOC) are still under the Democrat name in politics, even though they're very different from moderate Democrats. But because no distinction is made at a general level, the "Both Sides" argument holds true. After all, it's not moderate Dems who are pushing for Climate Change and too much money being in the hands of billionaires...
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Old 2021-02-06, 03:45   Link #84
Sheba
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While you guys are going Both Sides, I have yet to see a Republican growing a spine and call out on the bullshit of Jan 06th and QAnon. Spoiler: A significant number are still putting party loyalty and Trumpism over all else.
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Old 2021-02-06, 03:52   Link #85
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To be 100% fair, both Mitt Romney and Liz fucking Cheney grew a spine for all of 10 ten seconds, and even Mitch McConnell himself at least condemned Majorie Taylor Greene.

Of course, they're saying that just for the sounds bites; when it matters, they go right back to the rest of the Republicans.

But to get back to the original issue, while I lean Dem, I also stick to "Both Sides are the same" until I see ALL democrats going against corporate handouts... and more specifically, Citizens United.
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Old 2021-02-06, 06:41   Link #86
Guardian Enzo
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Which reads as "if neither side as perfect, both sides are the same". Which is why, over and over in American history, progressives fuck themselves over and conservatives win.
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Old 2021-02-06, 10:04   Link #87
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They say "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good"... nah, fuck that noise. That kind of thinking is what's happened for the past 60 or so years. Democrats basically do have to be perfect, because they have a harder job than Republicans at the end of the day. Republicans only have to say "Guns, gays and abortion", and they have a ton of votes. Meanwhile, Dems have about 50 issues that they need to address all at the same time... if they don't, they lose votes.

Or as I like to put it... Dems SUCK at messaging, and that's why they lose so much. This time around, they got lucky that it was more "vote against Trump" than "for Biden"
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Old 2021-02-06, 19:52   Link #88
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They absolutely have a problem with messaging.

When Heroes Act passed, we had some people going "Trump is going to give us $1200"

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Old 2021-02-07, 11:53   Link #89
mangamuscle
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Poll: 64 percent of GOP voters say they would join a Trump-led new party

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-amer...-trump-led-3rd

Heck, even if the poll is terribly skewed and only 32% of repubs would jump ship, that would still spell disaster in the short term for the GOP, that is, if they resist the urge to jump ship themselves.
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Old 2021-02-07, 16:24   Link #90
Guardian Enzo
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That's why they caved on conviction. Just the threat of a new American fascist party was enough to keep them in line.
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Old 2021-02-07, 21:03   Link #91
cyberdemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
Poll: 64 percent of GOP voters say they would join a Trump-led new party

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-amer...-trump-led-3rd

Heck, even if the poll is terribly skewed and only 32% of repubs would jump ship, that would still spell disaster in the short term for the GOP, that is, if they resist the urge to jump ship themselves.
That would be a short lived party. Fact is that Trump is old like Biden. I’d give him at best another 10 years, if he’s lucky, considering his age and weight. Not to mention potential long lasting covid effects. After that the party would fall apart due to a lack of leadership. There are plenty of extremists who would jump into the race. However I doubt there would ever be anyone who could truly unify them after Trump. Slightly less extremists would likely fall back in line with republicans while the true extremists would be relegated to a minority position that won’t even get a fair shot in debates making them little different then any other 3rd party. The Republican Party in general would suffer for decades after that as well.
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Old 2021-02-08, 16:03   Link #92
Eisdrache
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A Trump party might be the best thing that happens to US politics in a long time. It would absorb all the right-wing extremists and some of the democrats in name only, leaving the GOP with actual republicans. Of course this isn't realistically going to happen but it would be a step into a good direction.
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Old 2021-02-08, 16:46   Link #93
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
A Trump party might be the best thing that happens to US politics in a long time. It would absorb all the right-wing extremists and some of the democrats in name only, leaving the GOP with actual republicans. Of course this isn't realistically going to happen but it would be a step into a good direction.
I fdail to see how you might think than the democrate in name only would go for a Trump Party; aren't those pretty much 80's republican and corporate puppet. Why some moderate republican than don't know themself go for a more extremist option?
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Old 2021-02-08, 16:57   Link #94
Eisdrache
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Perhaps they wouldn't move to the extremist party but they might consider jumping to the republicans at least. It still remains that it would significantly reduce all parties closer to what should be their core.
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Old 2021-02-09, 11:09   Link #95
SeijiSensei
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Duverger's "law" plays a big role here, especially when it comes to Congress. Countries with single-member districts and plurality voting, like the US and UK, have a strong tendency toward two-party systems. In the US it's been easier for third parties to have an impact at the Presidential level than in Congress or state houses. Still, the most successful third-party Presidential bids have been regional in nature because of the workings of the Electoral College. Racist George Wallace won 46 Electoral Votes in 1968 with 13.5% of the national popular vote because he won five Southern states. Earlier examples include the Populists in 1892 and the Progressives in 1924, both of which had strong roots in the upper Midwest.

In contrast, industrialist Ross Perot ran as a third-party candidate in 1992 and won 19% of the vote, the most for any third-party candidate since Theodore Roosevelt in 1912. Perot also won exactly zero Electoral Votes because his voters were spread rather uniformly across the country.

Trump seems like a mix of Perot and Wallace in terms of his voting support. Perot did best in places like Alaska, Idaho, and Maine while Wallace's strength was in the traditional Confederacy. Both of these regions now support Trump.
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Old 2021-02-13, 13:44   Link #96
James Rye
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Would have been exciting if witnesses had been called forth for the trial but eh. Guess Dems really wanna focus on Biden's corona relief plus it most likely wouldn't have changed enough Rep minds to get him convicted. Still crazy how ready the Reps are to defend everything Trump does and says, what a crazy country with a crazy democracy system.
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Old 2021-02-13, 14:05   Link #97
MCAL
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Democrats on what they'd do after they succeeded in being able to call witnesses...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKiO37AdNa4
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Old 2021-02-13, 16:21   Link #98
Altima of the Gates
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What's McConnell's game at the end? Just to vote to acquit but make excuses that he was unable to be convicted by procedural opposition? Such dishonesty completely destroys the spirit of the law by choking it with the letter.
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Old 2021-02-13, 16:57   Link #99
coded321
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WTH just happened? We went from voting to hearing witnesses to acquittal in one day?

Edit:@Altima he's simply pretending that the republican party is the law and order party, while turning around to kiss trump's ring.
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Old 2021-02-13, 17:44   Link #100
James Rye
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Yeah, Moscow Mitch is the most two-faced politician Washington D.C. got and that is saying something.
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