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Old 2021-04-09, 05:53   Link #21
OH&S
Index III was a mistake
 
 
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Great chapter.

Big Mom is clearly creating a new cloud Homie (which means Zeus 1.0 is going back to Nami eventually). How will Kidd and Killer deal with her considering her natural advantage against them?

My personal opinion about using Conqueror's Haki to coat yourself in conjunction with Armament Haki is that its still okay and doesn't really break the system because of how extremely varied and flexible Oda has made the overall fighting system of One Piece. If regular Conqeror's Haki can be resisted if you have a strong enough spirit, there should be effective means of countering the Conqueror's Armament as well. And we've essentially seen that throughout the entire fight given that Zoro, Law and Killer have had success in piercing Kaido.

Didn't expect Luffy sending both Law and Zoro back down though. (kinda ruins the prospects of a potential Sanji vs King fight...) But I did expect Luffy to have a solo portion of the fight.

My bold prediction is that eventually once everything's said and done, all of the straw hats will eventually make it all the way to the top for a climactic showdown with Kaido.
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Old 2021-04-09, 07:53   Link #22
Kanon
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Under most circumstances, I'd agree. But at the very least, Kaidou's been softened up by a constant barrage of attacks from the supernovas thus far, so our rubber friend can probably handle him in a one on one at this point. We already know Kid and Killer will deal with Big Mom, so we probably won't have to worry about her interfering anytime soon....
The same can be said about Luffy though, he received plenty of damage. But I guess you're right and this is what will make the difference in the end. Let's not forget the Scabbards dealt plenty of damage too, even if Kaidou later claimed they didn't even manage to open his old wound (I seem to recall plenty of blood flowing).

I'd say Kid and Killer are the ones in the most trouble, since Big Mom didn't receive much damage during this fight.
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Old 2021-04-09, 11:05   Link #23
Jmariofan7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoodspirit View Post
It was inevitable that CoC would become more of an offensive force, however I don't like it buffing attacks directly.
One reason for that is: we already have CoA for that.
Second reason: unlike CoC, CoA is learnable by everyone.
So now it seems like you can't become the strongest swordsman without being born with CoC.
Doesn't really fit the character Zoro who was always shown to train more than any other in order to get stronger.
This is just you projecting what you want to see. Zoro has CoC BECAUSE of this.

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Originally Posted by Hoodspirit View Post
I don't have a problem with Zoro having CoC, like not at all.
According to the spoilers I will have a problem with CoC though.

From now on it doesn't matter how good you are with CoA, you will not be able to become the strongest swordsman without having CoC+CoA to give you a more potent self-buff directly infused in your attacks.
CoC is a trait you get upon birth, while CoA is something everyone could learn and train. Before this chapter, this was fine as those two had different applications, but with this chapter it has the exact same application.
Zoro is the character who trains the most on panel so this change to CoC is pretty huge. Also for his backstory: Kuina not born as a man, Zoro not born with CoC. The dream would have the same reason it failed and them unable to do anything against it. No matter how hard they'd train. Poor Kuina, Zoro was lucky twice when he was born.
This implication is why I don't like having CoC for Zoro now.
Implying that Kuina is actually dead, remember the theories of her changing genders thanks to Ivankov being there near the island in the Revolutionaries ship in the Sabo flashback?

Also there needed to be more to CoC than just knocking out mooks, you are just projecting your own headcanon into this.

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Originally Posted by Ka-el View Post
Well actually it was never stated that Garp doesn't have it. And btw probably oda didn't even mean to make haoushoku this kind of power but he had to for this saga, as he even stated he didn't even know how strawhats would have defeated kaido as he made him too powerful that he couldn't even think about how they would have won against him, this is the answer and so even if he hadn't think about Garp aving CoC maybe in the future he will. And btw, Rocks Pirates had at least 4 haoshoku haki user in the crew, including Rock himself, I doubt that Roger and Rayleigh were the only one between Garp and his men and Roger crew to have haoshoku in that battle.
Or maybe Oda actually plans things out and you are just trolling, stop with the ďOda didnít plan HakiĒ bs, there has been tons of foreshadowing since the first freaking chapter. Heck some people are speculating that Zoroís Asura attack is the CoC coating and thus was foreshadowed since Enies Lobby.

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Originally Posted by OH&S View Post
Didn't expect Luffy sending both Law and Zoro back down though. (kinda ruins the prospects of a potential Sanji vs King fight...)
Pretty sure that itís Queen that Sanji is going to fight.

Last edited by LKK; 2021-04-09 at 13:48. Reason: Posts merged. Don't post multiple times in a row. Use Edit button instead.
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Old 2021-04-09, 11:20   Link #24
marvelB
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
The same can be said about Luffy though, he received plenty of damage. But I guess you're right and this is what will make the difference in the end. Let's not forget the Scabbards dealt plenty of damage too, even if Kaidou later claimed they didn't even manage to open his old wound (I seem to recall plenty of blood flowing).
Yes, no doubt the Scabbards will count as a major contributing factor to Kaidou's downfall, as well. After all, despite the emperor's words, their performance still constantly reminded him of his clash with Oden. And frankly, they lasted a LOT longer against him than I originally thought they would. I'd say they all did their fallen master proud (well, Kanjurou aside, lol ).

Oh, and is it just me, or did Zoro's blades finally darken when he unleashed that Asura technique, there.....?

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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I'd say Kid and Killer are the ones in the most trouble, since Big Mom didn't receive much damage during this fight.
Hmm... perhaps. It might depend on the supernovas' strategy, though. Kid/Killer may prevail against BM by outwitting her again, but that would admittedly be tougher to pull off without Law's help (plus, she'll have undoubtedly wised up to any strategy involving snatching away her homies again). Another possibility is them gaining a new teammate, but it's tough to think of any possible candidates at this stage. Maybe Hawkins? I think he's been MIA for a good while, now. And it's not like he betrayed Kid during their earlier alliance in the first place (that was pretty much all Apoo).

BTW, going back to BM's homies, I definitely agree that Oda just opened the door to Zeus becoming a permanent power-up for Nami. And coincidentally, she DID say a few chapters back that she needed stronger thunder to beat Ulti, did she not?
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Old 2021-04-09, 17:34   Link #25
necrolyte
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Even though I don't like the way CoC is used and will probably be used from now on from the top fighters I do like the chapter a lot. It feels like we finally saw another major power up of Luffy and after this arc there will be no-one left who doesn't acknowledge him as one of the Yonkou.

Also we finally know for sure that Zoro has CoC which IMO is great but I was expecting him to finally open his other eye in this battle and to say that he had a reason to keep it closed for such a long period of time and that it is not actually cut. I guess I will be crossing fingers for the next big fight
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Old 2021-04-09, 18:24   Link #26
Kanon
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So, what do you think Rayleigh's reason for not telling Luffy you can coat yourself with CoC was?
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Old 2021-04-09, 18:55   Link #27
OH&S
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Originally Posted by Jmariofan7 View Post
Pretty sure that itís Queen that Sanji is going to fight.
That's still up in the air; but definitely most likely now. If Zoro's gonna come down from the roof then he needs an opponent befitting him. King is the only one at the moment.

If Zoro stayed on the roof, then Sanji vs King makes more sense as I believe they are designed similar to each other.
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Old 2021-04-09, 22:46   Link #28
Rainbowman
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Originally Posted by OH&S View Post
No friggin way!!!!

Zoro fanboys always said that he'd get Conqeror's Haki; and I believed them.

But who would have thought that Zoro would pull out Asura now and not when the battle reaches a climax.
Well, this battle was getting close to reaching itís climax the moment Big Mom was tossed out so that has to count for something.
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Old 2021-04-11, 14:04   Link #29
P_Dezz
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Under most circumstances, I'd agree. But at the very least, Kaidou's been softened up by a constant barrage of attacks from the supernovas thus far, so our rubber friend can probably handle him in a one on one at this point. We already know Kid and Killer will deal with Big Mom, so we probably won't have to worry about her interfering anytime soon....
it was unbelievably ballsy of Kidd to just think he can handle BM alone, Killer might be slightly stronger than Law, but he doesn't make that much of a difference.
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Old 2021-04-11, 14:13   Link #30
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I still wish zoro and law to stay there and at least support luffy, I just don't want him to win by himself.
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Old 2021-04-11, 15:38   Link #31
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Originally Posted by grecefar View Post
I still wish zoro and law to stay there and at least support luffy, I just don't want him to win by himself.
He won't be winning all by himself, though.
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Old 2021-04-11, 17:54   Link #32
ars89
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I hope BM gives up on Zeus so that he can go help Nami. I wonder what Prometheus favor is and how it relates to the increasing clouds. Not sure Kid and Killer can take her down, but hopefully keep her and Kaido apart.

Zoro being revealed to indeed have CoC is great to finally see.

Luffy realizing he has a power up to try/use is good. Ryuo + CoC hopefully takes down Kaido, maybe not for good but at least knocked out.
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Old 2021-04-11, 18:03   Link #33
Kanon
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Originally Posted by ars89 View Post
I hope BM gives up on Zeus so that he can go help Nami. I wonder what Prometheus favor is and how it relates to the increasing clouds. Not sure Kid and Killer can take her down, but hopefully keep her and Kaido apart.
As mentioned by someone else earlier, she's probably creating a new cloud homie to replace Zeus.
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Old 2021-04-11, 18:24   Link #34
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I'd be very surprised if he doesn't have it.
Yea, I've just been assuming that Zoro and Garp have CoC. Zoro is confirmed now, but it would too weird for Garp not to have it. Even Don Chinjao had it and Garp beat him too

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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
And Luffy is going to face Kaidou alone after all, huh? It feels like it's too soon for him to take down an emperor all by himself.
That's what I thought about Luffy facing a future-seeing Katakuri so I won't be underestimating him again

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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
So, what do you think Rayleigh's reason for not telling Luffy you can coat yourself with CoC was?
Probably because he knew that you could only learn or realize these new powers when fighting for your life and being pushed to the brink. He probably trusted that Luffy was strong enough after their training to be able to learn them on his own when the time was right. I think he even mentioned that new powers could awaken when fighting the top tier new world fighters
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Old 2021-04-11, 19:07   Link #35
marvelB
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
So, what do you think Rayleigh's reason for not telling Luffy you can coat yourself with CoC was?
I pretty much just chalked it up to Rayleigh not having enough time to teach him. Remember, he DID tell Luffy that two years wasn't enough to train him in anything beyond the basics. Otherwise, I figure he'd have already taught him ryuuou long before Hyougoro got the chance to, heh.
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Old 2021-04-11, 23:12   Link #36
grey_1960
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Chapter 1010
Well this is turning out pretty cool for a chapter. Has for Zoro he is barely scratching the Conquer Haki and he has done the most damage of any of the Supernovas. None of Luffy’s hits worked up until now. His potential are huge. Also Zoro learned to cut fire from just watching Kin emon I wonder if he can gain it from watching Luffy. I predict Jimbi will be another user of Conquer haki. The Straw hat are going to be similar to Shanks and Gold Rogers crew. They are going to be a very powerful crew. Has the conqueror haki I never imagined it being used like an advanced form of a really advance form of armor haki. I curious to see what clever way Shanks uses conquer haki. This will be cool when Luffy and shanks meets up. I wonder if he will show up at the end of this arch.

Prometheus and Zeus were weak
I am curious to see how this ends with Kaidou and Big Mama. I am surprised Kaidou saved Big Mama. I don’t know if anyone noticed but Prometheus was has useless has Zeus. It was Kaidou that freed Prometheus by taking Law and Zoro on.

Pheonix fruit
If what law said is true about Zoro then Marco is the only one who can get Zoro back in to the fight condition. I am curious if Zoro will inherit the fruit from Marco or get a zoan fruit. I anticipated Zoro being badly damaged but I am curious how this will unfold. I don’t think he is going to be out of the fight.

Big league
It will be hard for readers to realize this but if Luffy defeats Kaidiou he will have Yonkous status title. I am curious how the story will go after this. Oda won’t be able to treat the straw hats has Under dogs. Especially for taking Down two Yonkous.
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Old 2021-04-12, 08:12   Link #37
Kanon
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
Probably because he knew that you could only learn or realize these new powers when fighting for your life and being pushed to the brink. He probably trusted that Luffy was strong enough after their training to be able to learn them on his own when the time was right. I think he even mentioned that new powers could awaken when fighting the top tier new world fighters
Well, with future sight Rayleigh did tell him about it. Even if Luffy couldn't have possibly mastered it from training alone, giving him a little tip that you can also coat yourself in CoC could have gone a long way. After thinking about it, my guess is that he thought it would be detrimental to his growth if he told him about it and Luffy started focusing on this instead of mastering the other two colors.
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Old 2021-04-13, 10:53   Link #38
Hoodspirit
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
So, what do you think Rayleigh's reason for not telling Luffy you can coat yourself with CoC was?
I was puzzeled by this as well.
My guess is, he never intended to train him past the basics nor to guide him towards the most efficient path.

Gear4 is a mistake in Rayleigh's eyes and he didn't stop Luffy from going that route, even when Luffy reacted with KKG to his critic on Gear4.
He also left the island early, so lack of training time isn't a real issue as well.

When talking about future sight he didn't give a hint on how to get there, if he said that CoC can be coated, that itself would be a hint on what to do. a very minor difference, but that's what I'm going with for now.

So here is the main reason. It's a bit hard to convey with lots of assumptions, but what if Rayleigh trained him properly?
Luffy would know a little more and apply it in a limited form. He wouldn't have struggled as much and therefore wouldn't have bloomed as much either. Wihout the raw strength in Haki, it might not be posible to access certain techniques anyway. Luffy probably would have a more normal grow curve too. He'd still get strong, but this takes a lot of time. If we compare him with other characters at his level I'd guess 10-15 years.
But that is time the world doesn't have to wait for him.
Rayleigh, Roger, Oden, Toki, they all new the exact time when history would reach its next climax.
2 year + a little time for the journey was all that was left until the prophecy had to come true. Probably a thing they learned at Laugh Tale.

This is my opinion for now.
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Old 2021-04-13, 13:21   Link #39
Ramero
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I think Rayleigh wants Luffy to develop Haki on his own, as I recall that he only taught Luffy the basic thing about Haki, while the rest is up to him. So, in my point of view, Rayleigh won't give Luffy all the lessons he received, rather, he wants Luffy to learn it on his own.
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Old 2021-04-13, 18:07   Link #40
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
I pretty much just chalked it up to Rayleigh not having enough time to teach him. Remember, he DID tell Luffy that two years wasn't enough to train him in anything beyond the basics. Otherwise, I figure he'd have already taught him ryuuou long before Hyougoro got the chance to, heh.
Didn't Rayleigh leave Amazon Lily early? I thought Luffy spent the last 6 months or so on his own.

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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Well, with future sight Rayleigh did tell him about it. Even if Luffy couldn't have possibly mastered it from training alone, giving him a little tip that you can also coat yourself in CoC could have gone a long way. After thinking about it, my guess is that he thought it would be detrimental to his growth if he told him about it and Luffy started focusing on this instead of mastering the other two colors.
I think it's a mixture of this and Needing to be in a life or death situation to learn it. That was why Luffy was trying to learn while Big Mom was attacking him. It's also how he learned future sight while he was being pushed to his limit. Raylegh could have pushed Luffy to his limit or even killed him if wanted, but he's clearly too soft hearted to have gone that far.
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