2012-10-20, 09:29 | Link #24281 | |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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The elite of American capitalism are quite tightly interconnected though schooling, social ties, interlocking board memberships, and the like. I doubt that top CEOs all sat down together one evening and decided not to make any investments while Obama holds office, but certainly the notion could spread though casual interactions at board meetings, on the golf course, or in a social club. One does not have to be as radical as C. Wright Mills or William Domhoff to see how these institutions have developed over time. Look at the people sitting in that room together in Boca Raton. They have attended these sorts of events with people like them all their lives.
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2012-10-20, 12:02 | Link #24282 |
Nyaaan~~
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 40
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^ As someone that works in finance, I think your comments above are a huge stretch. Even in Canada, there is generally a notion that out right-wing parties are typically more fiscally responsible than the left-wing parties and also better for business. Markets tend to go up. He's sitting there talking to a number of financially sophisticated people -- and it's all very likely the truth.
That said, capital flight, isn't an entire misnomer but is applicable in certain situations. Eduardo Savarin for example has his billions and sits in Singapore. Gates, Buffet, Zuckerburg and the rest are happy staying in the U.S. despite the tax regime. There's always much less of a conspiracy than people otherwise think -- cause y'know what? People are selfish.. and distrustful.. and self-involved.. |
2012-10-20, 12:31 | Link #24283 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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2) We have two kinds of ultra-wealthy: ones that remember the peasants have guillotines and ones that don't The former knows that healthy productive peasants are less likely to be a problem than angry peasants with lots of time on their hands and nothing to lose. 2) The "right wing does finance better" flag has been burned to ashes in the US (whether or not the flag wavers know it). They've totally trashed any right to claim such over the last 25 years. Fiscal responsibility is no longer a GOP tag.
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2012-10-20, 13:15 | Link #24284 | |
Nyaaan~~
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 40
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2a) Agree & Disagree. Capital flight is actually a real problem, HK saw it back prior to 1997 due to China about to take over. That said, I tie this back to the whole healthcare & doctor salaries debate -- after a certain point there isn't much wage elasticity and people would be OK making less to live in the U.S. and Canada (vs. Singapore, Asia, etc.) 2b) I'm not saying it's true or not. I'm just saying that's the way people see it. Heck, there was the article written in Slate talking about the "dems" being the "austerity party" = http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/...eduction_.html Keep in mind though that these views are due to decades upon decades of ingrained political conditioning. That said, I hate it when people mention Clinton as being the whole fiscally responsible president. People need to learn to remember the bubble was inflated in the years prior to and during the Clinton administration. No one is innocent. I spare no one. I spear everyone. |
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2012-10-20, 22:56 | Link #24285 |
books-eater youkai
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
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Analysis: Mortgage demand too much for banks, who respond slowly
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...89I1EU20121019 Edit: U.S. Officials Say Iran Has Agreed to Nuclear Talks http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/21/wo...r-program.html After the election of course...
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Last edited by ganbaru; 2012-10-20 at 23:12. |
2012-10-21, 09:08 | Link #24286 | |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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In addtiion, I'm not really talking about financial institutions here, but the real economy instead. Corporations are hoarding large amounts of cash and not re-investing in their firms. One obvious reason for lack of investment is weak demand, to be sure, and there could be some of the famous "uncertainty" about regulations that Republicans like to point to as an explanation. But neither of those really seem sufficient explanations to me. Most industries have more or less the same set of regulations today as they did in 2008 regardless of Republican propaganda to the contrary. Most of the provisions of "Obamacare" will not even take effect until 2014 so they really have had little effect on investment decisions over the past three years. Dodd-Frank may have some (unfortunately too little, in my mind) sway over financial institutions, but most economic actors are unaffected by its provisions. I can understand why the Republican small business owner in Idaho I heard on NPR this morning might parrot back propaganda on regulation, but not the people sitting in the room in Boca Raton. They should know well how to manipulate the regulatory apparatus to get the results they prefer. They have been doing it for years. It sounds to me like you are suffering from some of that "ingrained political conditioning" yourself.
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Last edited by SeijiSensei; 2012-10-21 at 09:25. |
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2012-10-21, 09:20 | Link #24287 | |
Nyaaan~~
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 40
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All I can say about "uncertainty" is I have been on private conference calls with CFOs and CEOs of multimillion and multibillion dollar corporations talking about expansion strategies and investing and that they re very concerned about the future. They seem awfully concerned about the "uncertainty" of the economy and the government. I've also met with lending relationship managers and they speak of how the current economic environment is unprecedented in thei lifetimes, "Too much funny money around.." is a direct quote. They're only 40-50 though, so maybe they're biased as well. All I can assure you is I base my opinions on the fact patterns I see while remaining skeptical and changing my opinions when the facts change. PS: Refer to my response to Vexx, I don't necessarily believe the GOP is better for the economy, I'm just saying lots of people still do. Including my boss and other senior business leaders that I've personally met. Last edited by willx; 2012-10-21 at 10:15. Reason: Typos on ipad |
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2012-10-21, 10:11 | Link #24288 |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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I do not disagree with the perception that economic uncertainty is high right now, but I do not see much evidence that it has to do with which American party controls the White House. Europe is a mess; demand in Asia, especially from China, is slowing; and the US economy has not expanded fast enough since the Recession to pick up the slack. "Too much funny money" around is probably a criticism of the Fed's "quantitative easing" policies, and maybe the actions of the European and Chinese banking systems as well. I'd be curious whether this person had the same opinion in 2007 when enormous sums were invested in over-valued real-estate derivatives. Lots of "funny money" around then, too.
So I just do not see much justification for the claim that if we only were to elect Mitt Romney the economic ship would be righted once again. Uncertainty is a fundamental aspect of the modern world and an obvious consequence of globalization. Romney as President can do little to affect Eurozone finances, Chinese growth paths, or other large sources of uncertainty. I can think of one major source of uncertainty, a war with Iran, that would be worsened under a Romney Administration staffed with people like John Bolton. One type of uncertainty that will be reduced in a Romney Administration is whether the rich will continue to prosper. Romney's proposals will further redistribute income to the wealthy, a policy begun under Reagan, accommodated by Clinton, and massively accelerated under G.W. Bush. The guys (and I'm guessing they are still mostly guys) on those conference calls would certainly prefer to see that type of "uncertainty" reduced. I cannot support Romney or most any current Republican because they espouse disgustingly right-wing social agendas. But even without that motivation, I cannot support the Republicans because they advocate policies that will only exacerbate our already astounding trends in income inequality. An Obama Administration may not be able to reverse these trends substantially, but it will not make them worse the way a Romney Administration will.
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2012-10-21, 15:37 | Link #24289 | |
Unspecified
Scanlator
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Unspecified
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Mass shooting reported in Wisconsin: 7 hospitalized, suspect remains at large, police
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2012-10-21, 22:04 | Link #24292 | |
books-eater youkai
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
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Quote:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...89K0F620121022
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2012-10-22, 08:19 | Link #24294 |
books-eater youkai
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
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Somali piracy at three-year low after security thwarts gangs
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...89L0NZ20121022
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2012-10-22, 14:49 | Link #24295 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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German Court Demands Bundesbank Audit Sovereign Gold Holdings
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Didn't know if I should put it here on the the Silly/Odd News thread. It's as serious and sad as it is funny. |
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2012-10-22, 14:58 | Link #24296 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montreal, QC, Canada
Age: 40
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2012-10-22, 16:26 | Link #24297 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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2012-10-23, 02:40 | Link #24299 |
Senior Member
Author
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philippines
Age: 47
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Somehow the Gangnam craze stops, in all places... Japan:
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/lifestyle...-gangnam-style
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2012-10-23, 03:38 | Link #24300 |
books-eater youkai
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
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U.S. probes deaths for links to Monster energy drink
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...89L16G20121022 Insight: In vulnerable Greece, mosquitoes bite back http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...89L0PM20121022
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current affairs, discussion, international |
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