Aldnoah.Zero - generic discussion thread

[GDB]

Originally Posted by RRW

I will wait for more info really. Could be all those settler is war criminals. Still bitter at war and want to take revenge.

...Space Australia?

Originally Posted by Tempester

I really liked the very last scene with the "shooting stars" though.

Gotta admit, I totally expected one of the stars to hit the house and kill the kids.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Tempester

I'm just baffled at how there are 340(!) comments for this anime after less than 3 days. The first episode didn't strike me as any anything special other than the dialogue and some directing.

I really liked the very last scene with the "shooting stars" though.

I think the comments are more about how unrealistic the setting and world history is to many than about the actual episode.

[Triple_R]

After giving it more thought, and being fair to Moe Connection's arguments...

It's perhaps not completely impossible to think that a very large number of space explorers could be brainwashed over two decades or so to think like how the Martians seem to think (at least the Martians we've met so far).

I still think it's a pretty big stretch, but if that's what I have to go with to make sense of this at all, then I guess that's what I'll go with.

However, my issue with this isn't strictly believability. In my view, something like The Principality of Zeon or ZAFT in Gundam Seed is much more compelling than, say, a really big Branch Davidians in space that happen to have been lucky enough to stumble across incredible tech.

I mean, in my view, that has a lot less nuance to it than the sort of "space-dweller vs. Earth-dweller" conflict you get in a lot of the Gundam shows. More often than not, I can see where both sides of that conflict are coming from, even if the leadership of one side (or both sides) may be rather extreme and/or war-mongering. I think that having a space-based people that sincerely, and with at least some good reason, have chosen to wage war with people on Earth, is much more compelling than having, frankly, an entire Martian colony of genocidal maniacs who are the way they are primarily (if not entirely) due to brainwashing.

In other words, having a full-fledged people, with an actual sensible culture and society that organically arises over a fair stretch of time, is much more compelling to me than a bunch of brainwashed murderous maniacs.

[novalysis]

What if the Martian Colonist were trapped in a period of "stretched" time, and as a result, experienced centuries when on Earth, only two years passed?

[zero7090]

Originally Posted by Solace

This was one of my gripes, although I did enjoy the philosophical dialogue during the bar scene.

My other gripes:

1. A moon with that much debris is going to rain down dangerous objects for centuries. It doesn't take an object of much size to do a lot of damage. Not to mention it would be very difficult to run any kind of sophisticated satellite system and the decrease in moon mass would wreck havoc on the climate and the oceans. Simply put, if the moon suffered damage like that, it would cripple human civilization and possibly send it back centuries, assuming it survived at all. It's simply inconceivable that a nation like Japan would even exist, let alone thrive at the level the show depicts it at, barely a decade after the event.

2. In the span of less than three decades, humans colonized Mars, learned how to use alien artifacts, developed a superiority complex, and waged war against Earth. It's like the show can't establish a plausible timeline. On one hand this is supposed to have happened very rapidly, yet you have Vers characters speaking of Earth as this mythical ancestral homeland. It's really jarring, even if you accept the hilariously bad premise. At least Iron Sky was tongue in cheek.

3. How did the Empire even lose with all of that technology? Why even bother with a ceasefire? You have orbital stations the size of cities that can survive free fall into Earths atmosphere without a scratch. Assuming a controlled landing, they still caused a small nuclear level explosion upon landing and are perfectly fine. That's way beyond Earth level tech. We won't even mention the differences in mech technology.

4. How can security possibly be that lax to allow a truck with dozens of guided missiles to fire on an extremely important, weakly guarded diplomat using cell phones? For gods sake the US shut down the entire city of Boston after the marathon bombing to conduct a two person manhunt and yet here we have a road populated with hundreds of civilians, making it incredibly easy for a potential assassin to hide among them?

5. The main character is so emotionless that it's disturbing. "Hey guys, I just saw a missile. We should get out of here". Very deadpan. The guy in charge of conducting military training which uses heavy machinery openly drinks on the job. The count on the orbital station is all "I tried to talk the princess out of going!" yet we never see this at all. There's no explanation for how New Orleans, a city built below sea level which barely withstood a category 5 hurricane, was able to survive the moon exploding, sea levels rising, and half the country gone.

It's all just....very painful to watch. There's really good ideas here, but it's all put together so awkwardly that it almost feels like a parody of the genre.

1. You dont know about tech level of japan at that moment
2. You dont know about the human in Mars nor their history nor their internal affair ....
3. You dont know about earth technology. War is not determined by technology alone but politics, man power, public and sometime luck.
4. You dont know about the politics or who is the real culprit
5. In western media, main char calmly take a wound/dodge bullets you all praise him with meme "like i give a fuck" "overmanly man" yet now you criticise someone "disturbing" for being calm? And yes the main character was "like i give a fuck" cool

If you want to discuss real life logic, first explain how big ass mecha is fcking viable in the first place, that they wont get fcking nuked by infantry rocket. How did they solve the weight problem for mecha that make them crumble like a pile of steel in the first place. Do you know how complex it is to make a robot that able to run, jump (yes the balancing when you do a jump and land on 2 leg is extremely complex) let alone fighting in a war.


p/s: my impression for the show, at the first 16min it was pretty "meh" then the music start then the "i just saw a missile, lol do i give a damn" and the insert song just blow me away. Also i lol-ed at the "i wish for world peace" and thought the director must be quite twisted to play a cruel joke like that, then i saw urobutcher name and wasnt surprised.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by novalysis

What if the Martian Colonist were trapped in a period of "stretched" time, and as a result, experienced centuries when on Earth, only two years passed?

Unless, you're talking about suspended animation or something, no that's not possible. The theory is basically that the closer you approach the speed of light, the more time will slow for you. In order for the time difference you're talking about, this only really works is if you're moving at a distance in lightyears, and Mars is nowhere near that far away from us. So, no, our perception of time would be about the same. Even the length of a Mars day is about the same as an Earth day. Though their years are longer than ours.

[Sheba]

They have likely sacrificed many Great Scientists to shave off an entire era worth from their tech tree, and Great Merchants to keep their treasury afloat.

[Utsuro no Hako]

Originally Posted by Solace

2. In the span of less than three decades, humans colonized Mars, learned how to use alien artifacts, developed a superiority complex, and waged war against Earth. It's like the show can't establish a plausible timeline. On one hand this is supposed to have happened very rapidly, yet you have Vers characters speaking of Earth as this mythical ancestral homeland. It's really jarring, even if you accept the hilariously bad premise. At least Iron Sky was tongue in cheek.

I've read so much classic science fiction where humanity had the entire solar system colonized by the year 2000, all I can do is shrug my shoulders when I see it now. (If you think this is ridiculous, read the Dirty Pair novels where humanity creates a galactic empire within a couple decades of discovering FTL.)

3. How did the Empire even lose with all of that technology? Why even bother with a ceasefire? You have orbital stations the size of cities that can survive free fall into Earths atmosphere without a scratch. Assuming a controlled landing, they still caused a small nuclear level explosion upon landing and are perfectly fine. That's way beyond Earth level tech. We won't even mention the differences in mech technology.

The moon blowing up presumably took the fight out of them.

4. How can security possibly be that lax to allow a truck with dozens of guided missiles to fire on an extremely important, weakly guarded diplomat using cell phones? For gods sake the US shut down the entire city of Boston after the marathon bombing to conduct a two person manhunt and yet here we have a road populated with hundreds of civilians, making it incredibly easy for a potential assassin to hide among them?

But if Barack Obama showed up in Boston today, his motorcade wouldn't be any better protected, and if someone launched a dozen guided missiles at him from beyond the security perimeter, the result would've been the same.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

I've read so much classic science fiction where humanity had the entire solar system colonized by the year 2000, all I can do is shrug my shoulders when I see it now. (If you think this is ridiculous, read the Dirty Pair novels where humanity creates a galactic empire within a couple decades of discovering FTL.)

Which is probably one of the reasons why sci-fi tends to do better in film and on TV than in literature format these days.

But if Barack Obama showed up in Boston today, his motorcade wouldn't be any better protected, and if someone launched a dozen guided missiles at him from beyond the security perimeter, the result would've been the same.

The motorcade itself is fine for a traveling dignitary who has no choice but to travel by road. Like you say, there are limits to how much protection can be given to even the most important VIPs when they're traveling by road.

However, why did she even need to travel by road? She's descending from space to Earth. Why not drop down right into a heavily secured area? They have these sorts of areas for G20 meetings, I don't see why they couldn't have it for her.

Basically, what good reason is there for her to be traveling the streets of a city? It's completely unnecessary, especially if she's going to be obscured behind tinted glass.

Of course, this might all make some sense if the Vers people wanted her to become assassinated, and hence intentionally put her at more risk than what was necessary.

[Irenesharda]

Here's a fresh question, in the end half they state that of the 37 knights in the Satillite Belt, only 19 are coming down, which leaves 18 in space. And we have to guess that when each one comes down, they are going to do the same damage as the one in New Orleans.

The only places the episode mentioned that they could project they would come down, were New Orleans, Mozambique, Beijing, and Tokyo. I'm guessing the other 15 or just coming down in non-populated areas or the ocean? But, I'm guessing that Tokyo ( of course) is the only one that's going to be saved somehow? In the PVs, they show them fighting with Nao and friends hanging on to mecha in flight, as well as fighter jets. Do you think Tokyo will be saved, or are all these places doomed to go up in flames too?

In listening to the background military strategy, they state that they don't know how much damage will be done when the ships come down, but believe that the Martians will attack under the distraction of the impact. So, they will wait until after the shockwave ends to mount a counteroffensive from 50km away.
To me this sounds like Tokyo's toast too, since they don't seem to have anything to counterattack that. But you can never tell.

Also, what do you think the other 18 in space are going to be doing? What part will they play?

[bigdeath]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Also, what do you think the other 18 in space are going to be doing? What part will they play?

They serve the part of in fighting and backstabbing. These "knights" don't seem the least noble, more like mercenaries out for only themselves.

[bigdeath]

Originally Posted by Tempester

I'm just baffled at how there are 340(!) comments for this anime after less than 3 days. The first episode didn't strike me as any anything special other than the dialogue and some directing. Frankly, Suisei no Gargantia seemed more promising in its first episode with its brilliant visuals and interesting premise. I'm going to have to see more to be sold on this typical "real robot" premise.

Suisei no Gargantia wasn't that interesting of a first episode and only got worse as it went. This show on the other hand starts off with a REAL BANG! How exciting! And of course, the mystery of if the princess is really dead or do we have a big surprise in store for us.

[felix]

Who's the guy on the far left above Slaine? Slaine's father?



Also the people in the picture seem "Happy" suggesting this is potentially one of those "Warmongers that back home dont realize the pain they inflict onto others"

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by felix

Who's the guy on the far left above Slaine? Slaine's father?



Also the people in the picture seem "Happy" suggesting this is potentially one of those "Warmongers that back home dont realize the pain they inflict onto others"

Isn't that Saazbaum? The knight who made the big speech and said "wouldn't it be lucky for us if the princess was killed"?

I highly doubt Slaine's father would ever be allowed to be a noble. Slaine and his father are Terrans, too inferior for the Martians, except for the kindhearted princess, which is probably the only reason Slaine's in the picture. They probably let him stay to be the princess' companion and "pet" at her request.

[felix]

Irene, thanks for the explanation.

-

Onto the next itch,

Is it me or do the Martians appear to be physically different?

I wonder how plausible it is some of the technology they have also enhances their physiology? If you were a martian and you had an immortality syrup (albeit it could be so much more) that would probably be reason enough to feel those pests on Earth with finite lifespans are just "human trash" as it were with an unrightful claim on one of the prettier planets in known space.

-

Prediction for plot: martians win, but, advanced alien civilization comes back and kicks everyone's ass back to the stone age.

[Utsuro no Hako]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The motorcade itself is fine for a traveling dignitary who has no choice but to travel by road. Like you say, there are limits to how much protection can be given to even the most important VIPs when they're traveling by road.

However, why did she even need to travel by road? She's descending from space to Earth. Why not drop down right into a heavily secured area? They have these sorts of areas for G20 meetings, I don't see why they couldn't have it for her.

Basically, what good reason is there for her to be traveling the streets of a city? It's completely unnecessary, especially if she's going to be obscured behind tinted glass.

She's there on a goodwill tour. Hiding her in the green zone or wherever would defeat the point. It'd be like the Pope visiting a country by flying directly to a military base instead of riding the Pope-mobile through a city.

[BPD Renegade]

I've yet to read the last few pages thoroughly, but I agree that the timeline did seem very strange time-wise. There was a lot of talk about "generations" and "our fathers" in the anime, which made it seem like a lot of time had passed, but it seems like the people of Vers are at most one generation removed from Earth.

Before seeing the timeline, my initial speculation on the timeline of events was that after discovering the hypergate, some citizens of Earth went to colonize Mars, then after the ancient tech was discovered, another party, Vers, swooped in to take it starting the war on the moon. Once the hypergate was destroyed, the colonists were stranded on Mars with the people of Vers, so we had four factions: Earth, Earth colonists on Mars (Terrans), Vers (ancestors from Earth), Vers Knights on the moon remains.

Of course, this was all disproved once the timeline was posted. Which leads to three possible things:
1. Like someone mentioned above, there could be some timey-whimey stuff occurring.
2. The timeline is only half-right (the translator was screwing with us )
3. Another cause that hasn't been stated occurred, and we'll get the reveal later.
It's most likely the last. Like everyone else, I can't really see the level of distain occurring so soon after colonization without some ulterior occurrences.

[Kurohane]

This a series instantly became a must watch. The plot is very simple but solid. Earth against Mars, and the Earthlings are very outmatched due to the technology difference. The POV is from the teenagers who have to experience it, and up front too as military training has been added to the curriculum in the schools.

As it's the first episode, can't really expect to know all the characters that well. Inaho seems emotionless, but another user felix put it best:

Originally Posted by felix

Emotionless = lack of ritualistic behavior (potentially group conciseness/interest as well in this case), ie. "he's not screaming like a cavemen to warn his fellow cavemen of the danger of the sabercat-missle"

The whole emotionless = trauma is anime trope. Since this is an anime, I would say 90% chance that's going to be the case until proven otherwise; if it was any other anime it's almost 110% chance this is the case.

In any case, any idiot with some idea of all the dumb things humans do in daily life (subconscious rituals, group imposed ideals, group imposed decitions, etc) can suppress any number of them and get this "emotionless" vibe around him. I say idiot because it's pointless to do so (sadly). Just as in the scene in the anime, even if you can keep perfectly calm and screaming in panic is a pointless waste of energy, all the monkeys around you won't budge unless you communicate in their monkey language, ie. screem "OH MA GUD, MISSLES, WE GOTZ TO SAVE OUR BUDS" to initialize the "run from em' Saber Bears" protocol. It's like if instead of english everyone here spoke in some "LOL" language, everyone who wishes to community anything in the context will have to use the braindead method to communicate... ohwait we're on the internet, that happens all the time.

I don't believe he's arrogant; it's just that he's very eccentric. His friends know him as such, that he lives in his own world. Instead of being excited that the VERs princess is near like everyone else, he's noting that eggs are on sale. His thinking is different, but I doubt he thinks he's different from anyone else because of it, rather it makes him more honest than others. In his very first scene, he attempts at joking around with his sister, so he doesn't act apathetic intentionally.

The Terran with the VERs empire seems likable. He has a crush on the princess, most likely because she's been his ray of light after an incident 5 years ago in which she helped both him and his father. The princess seems rather bland. You can tell she's excited about her first trip to Earth, but that's drown out about the overflowing optimism and preaching of ideals her character gave off. I hope the series does more to flesh her character. I believe the consensus here is that she's alive.

On the other hand, characters like Inaho's sister and the Lieutenant overflow with personality. It was easy for me to like them. The Lieutenant seems to have guilt issues, because he feels responsible for telling these kids he's responsible for lies of how they can protect the Earth and whatnot, when it's all pointless based on the technological difference between the two sides, and his own experience witnessing said difference.

The ending was a serious mood shift, as New Orleans got wiped out in no time from the VERs simply landing on the surface. The kids wishing on the shooting stars was very anti-climatic, and it was very purposeful. Peace has just gotten very far away, and the situation will get worse before it even hopes to get better. Seriously, those impacts from the fortresses might as well have been another Heaven's Fall.

Originally Posted by BPD Renegade

I think his and Slaine's current portrayal gives us a lot of room for character development later on. I can't really see either of them being as passive as they were for the entire series, and given that this is a two-cour (confirmed?) we have plenty of time for them 'evolve,' so to speak.

I thought the same about Haruto from Valvrave, and Shin from Gundam Seed Destiny.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by bigdeath

Suisei no Gargantia wasn't that interesting of a first episode and only got worse as it went. This show on the other hand starts off with a REAL BANG! How exciting! And of course, the mystery of if the princess is really dead or do we have a big surprise in store for us.

That's not much of a mystery. She's either dead exactly as shown, or alive exactly as expected.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

After giving it more thought, and being fair to Moe Connection's arguments...

It's perhaps not completely impossible to think that a very large number of space explorers could be brainwashed over two decades or so to think like how the Martians seem to think (at least the Martians we've met so far).

If they'd been sent to Mars (without the expectation of alien tech lying around) and then stranded with little hope of survival, with the Emperor discovering the tech and saving everyone, sure. But here? It was the most important find in history. There should have been massive oversight and constant communication with Earth, with everyone watching everyone else, and not, like some have hypothesized, a war criminal left in charge with complete autonomy.

Originally Posted by Moe Connection

The point is that it's really difficult to assemble 300k well educated individuals. If they are well educated, chances are that they wouldn't sign up to a dangerous, potentially life-threatening job.

Are you kidding? I could probably find 300k college educated people who are unemployed or underemployed in France alone, let alone the whole world.

Originally Posted by Moe Connection

Like I've mentioned before, they'd probably have trouble recruiting 300k people,especially if they are required to be well trained. It requires a lot of money and time to carefully select all these people and weed out all the vulnerable. Chances are that there won't be enough volunteers to join the initial expedition, let alone people for the government to weed out. There's also the important fact that organization of the expedition was placed in the hands of the Scientist who latter became emperor. There's the possibility that he intentionally sabotaged the selection process and let only people he thinks he could manipulate to join.

Which begs the question of why anyone would let him do that.

[ImperialKnight]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

That's not much of a mystery. She's either dead exactly as shown, or alive exactly as expected.

You know what they say unless we see the body she's still alive

If they'd been sent to Mars (without the expectation of alien tech lying around) and then stranded with little hope of survival, with the Emperor discovering the tech and saving everyone, sure. But here? It was the most important find in history. There should have been massive oversight and constant communication with Earth, with everyone watching everyone else, and not, like some have hypothesized, a war criminal left in charge with complete autonomy.

That's what I was wondering.

According to the story they simply found the gate and used it to get to Mars which they then terraformed and colonized. Somewhere along the way some "empire" emerged and took control.

So clearly they weren't just left to "hang" and dry.

Even then this empire cannot be older than 25 years. It's not like the Galactic Empire from Star Wars which had its foundation set a long time ago.

The way they talk about "Their fathers" and such I mean most of the Martians can't be that disconnected from Earth.