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Old 2021-04-17, 19:10   Link #7121
Ligerleon89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
There will always be exceptions, but chances are polyamory relationships that actually work aren't harems or any sort of relationship in which a single guy is surrender by various girls clinging to his dick. That's a fantasy. It doesn't exist in reality unless the girls are either forced or manipulated into it (like most harem in history). Actually-functional polyamory relationships are more like open-relationships that include various guys and women. There's no king-like central figure whom everyone else revolves around.


But Tenzen12 is right they are subservient. It doesn't matter if they appear self-assured and whatnot. They're still revolve around the MC, devote to him and such.
No comments about the recent chapter?
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Old 2021-04-19, 20:12   Link #7122
NapoleonDeCheese
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
But Tenzen12 is right they are subservient. It doesn't matter if they appear self-assured and whatnot. They're still revolve around the MC, devote to him and such.
It's not a single way street, though, the guy also devotes himself to then and will always do his best to help and protect them when they can't protect themselves. Within the stylized reality of an anime-manga context, is still as mutual as any monogamous relationship if not more (or are you going to tell me that, for instance, Goku is devoted to Chichi? Dude will just leave her for whole years without even consulting her just because he feels like it).
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Old 2021-04-19, 23:27   Link #7123
Tenzen12
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Well if guy have 5 wifes it means he can provide only 1/5 of protection each (but receive 5 times of protection from them in return). And that assumes he doesn't pull Goku but 5 times at once...

That seems pretty one way street to me.
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Last edited by Tenzen12; 2021-04-19 at 23:38.
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Old 2021-04-20, 08:19   Link #7124
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I'm not sure the protection thing applies in this case since they're all, y'know, immortal, but presumably at this point Touta can control his sludge blood enough to form multiple bodies anyway so he could technically protect all of them if he had to.
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Old 2021-04-20, 14:12   Link #7125
Tenzen12
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To be honest if Touta could use that to create multiple bodies long term (by that I mean literaly forever), went full Kurono (Gantz) on girls and were able to give each girl equivalent of undivided attention I would completely concede on this particular case.

But I don't think UQ will choose that route.
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Old 2021-04-20, 15:50   Link #7126
XFire
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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
To be honest if Touta could use that to create multiple bodies long term (by that I mean literaly forever), went full Kurono (Gantz) on girls and were able to give each girl equivalent of undivided attention I would completely concede on this particular case.

But I don't think UQ will choose that route.
Probably not, but considering they were able to maintain separate bodies for the race without much trouble I'd assume he at least could when they aren't fighting someone.

Though tbh I wouldn't be surprised if Akamatsu actually kills off Touta for the lolz at the end of the manga, he clearly enjoys messing with his fanbase at this point
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Old 2021-05-07, 23:21   Link #7127
haseo0408
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Well, I really wasnīt expecting this from the new chapter.
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Old 2021-05-08, 02:24   Link #7128
Shippuu
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So Yukihime is possessed by Ialda. Fitting enough. From the black robes, the puppetry and emo tendencies the two always had some similarities. I probably shouldn't hope for an explanation how Evangeline managed to defeat not just Ialda, but Negi-Ialda. An opponent so vastly above her she defeated Yukihime instantly before. Seeing all these better characters just brings back my rage again. Is Negi dead? Nagi certainly seems to be. It's a shame both of them got defeated off-screen. I would have preferred seeing these two fights and their tragic endings than having to watch this gaudy soap opera where Yukihime gets saved by her son-husband so she can be one of his many bimbos.

I wonder what this "Key" is, aside from a get-out-of-jail-free card that lets them bullshit their way out of something. This chapter also reinforces my hatred for Lotus-Eater Machine stories. Ialda makes perfectly valid points. They always do. But the protagonist never have an argument other than "hurrr it's not real!" as they force their opinion on the rest of humanity no different than the antagonist and doom billions to perpetual misery just so they can continue leading the privileged lives they have, more due to luck than their own efforts, as the world falls apart around them in the present like Venus did in the past and would have ended dozens of times already had it not been for Kirie's bullshit powers. Why even bother with this type of plot if you're not going to explore it? Ialda might as well have been a sociopath who wants to destroy the world and remake it in her own image.

At least the end is in sight. Just put this thing out of its misery and me alongside it.

Also:
  • Does the final scene happen inside Ialda's mind or are they hanging out in the rift between worlds for some reason?
  • Ialda says this endless battle has been raging since time began. Is she massively exaggerating or has she actually been constantly defeated for thousands of years? Just when I thought she couldn't get more pathethic.
  • Looks like Baal is really dead? Guess everything important happens off-screen in UQ Holder.
  • Looks like only the most popular characters were brought back by Ialda. Fate's girls remain irrelevant. Surely Kaede, Kū Fei, Kotarou and some others also participated in the battles against Ialda. Guess they survived and just stayed home?

Last edited by Shippuu; 2021-05-08 at 08:24.
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Old 2021-05-08, 04:08   Link #7129
AP24
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After Kuromaru and Karin, I expected it would be Kirie’s turn in this chapter but seems like it was skipped.

The magazine issue says the series will end in 9 chapters (this chapter counts as one).
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Old 2021-05-08, 08:20   Link #7130
haseo0408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shippuu View Post
So Yukihime is possessed by Ialda. Fitting enough. From the black robes, the puppetry and emo tendencies the two always had some similarities. I probably shouldn't hope for an explanation how Evangeline managed to defeat not just Ialda, but Negi-Ialda. An opponent so vastly above her she defeated Yukihime instantly before. Seeing all these better characters just brings back my rage again. Is Negi dead? Nagi certainly seems to be. It's a shame both of them got defeated off-screen. I would have preferred seeing these two fights and their tragic endings than having to watch this gaudy soap opera where Yukihime gets saved by her son-husband so she can be one of his many bimbos.

I wonder what this "Key" is, aside from a get-out-of-jail-free card that lets them bullshit their way out of something. This chapter also reinforces my hatred for Lotus-Eater Machine stories. Ialda makes perfectly valid points. They always do. But the protagonist never have an argument other than "hurrr it's not real!" as they force their opinion on the rest of humanity no different than the antagonist and doom billions to perpetual misery just so they can continue leading the privileged lives they have, more due to luck than their own efforts, as the world falls apart around them in the present like Venus did in the past and would have ended dozens of times already had it not been for Kirie's bullshit powers. Why even bother with this type of plot if you're not going to explore it? Ialda might as well have been a sociopath who wants to destroy the world and remake it in her own image.

At least the end is in sight. Just put this thing out of its misery and me alongside it.

Also:
  • Does the final scene happen inside Ialda's mind or are they hanging out in the rift between worlds for some reason?
  • Ialda says this endless battle has been raging since time began. Is she massively exaggerating or has she actually been constantly defeated for thousands of years? Just when I thought she couldn't get more pathethic.
  • Looks like Baal is really dead? Guess everything important happens off-screen in UQ Holder.
  • Looks like only the most popular characters were brought back by Ialda. Surely Kaede, Kū Fei, Kotarou and some others also participated in the battles against Ialda. Guess they survived and just stayed home?
Thatīs the thing, Ialda is truly a sociopath that only cares about what she wants, and giving humanity this eternal dream of happiness is just a side effect of her plan to benefit herself. There is no magic to fix mankindīs suffering, it is part of what makes life well life...... Like it is seen in Fate/Zero, there is no miracle to create a perfect world, anyone who says otherwise is seriously deluded.
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Old 2021-05-08, 08:47   Link #7131
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We're reaching the end folks, are you ready?
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Old 2021-05-08, 08:47   Link #7132
Shippuu
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Originally Posted by haseo0408 View Post
Thatīs the thing, Ialda is truly a sociopath that only cares about what she wants, and giving humanity this eternal dream of happiness is just a side effect of her plan to benefit herself. There is no magic to fix mankindīs suffering, it is part of what makes life well life...... Like it is seen in Fate/Zero, there is no miracle to create a perfect world, anyone who says otherwise is seriously deluded.
Obviously there is no magic to fix mankind's suffering. As long as people exist reality compels infinite suffering. There is no way out of it. Negi's idea of throwing money and technology at a problem born of human nature will never fix anything. That's the whole point of Kosmo Entelekheia. And Ialda isn't a sociopath. She's an empath. That's the problem. She cares too much. She cannot accept that the world isn't as it should be and just ignore people trapped in lives and circumstances so miserable and unfair they cannot escape them on their own. Or even endure them. Ialda's plan doesn't just benefit herself. It benefits everyone. The people who already lead happy lives will continue to do so. But what about the people who will never be saved and probably vastly outnumber the few lucky enough to lead privileged lives? Fuck them? It can't be helped? Kosmo Entelekheia offers them a chance to be something they never could in reality, no matter how long or how hard they try. Happy. And isn't that the only thing that matters?

It's fine if you don't agree with Ialda. That's not the point. The point is that I want people to actually acknowledge each other's arguments and have a decent discussion about it instead of them beating Ialda, patting themselves on the back for a job well done, celebrating the murder of someone who ultimately just wanted to help people and going back home to worship the status quo while the rest of humanity continues to suffer. Just like Negima had a decent discussion about the ethics of time travel instead of glorifying it like ever other story ever made. That's one of the reasons why the arc was so good in the first place. The salvation of all humanity in the present at the cost of its future presents an interesting conflict but Akamatsu and most writers are simply not competent enough to make a compelling story out of it. But in that case there is no point in going down this route in the first place and he might as well have turned Ialda into someone mustache-twirling evil with a god complex who wants to rule over humanity as her slaves.

Last edited by Shippuu; 2021-05-08 at 09:21.
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Old 2021-05-08, 09:10   Link #7133
NapoleonDeCheese
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Of course, much like the morals and ethic dilemmas on immortality, the morals and ethic dilemmas on Ialda's plans are no relatable through real world means because they work on principles too apart from reality. There's nothing at all like a perfect virtual paradise encompassing all of mankind, just like there's no way to make humans immortal, so those are issues that are given a lot of lip service but hold absolutely no real resonance for our lives. A whole bunch of meaningless stuff that just tries to sound meaningful and deep, but falls apart when you look closely at it and realize it's just a made up predicament built on made up premises.

Is it even possible to be perfectly happy forever? Realistically, at some point, wouldn't the human mind have enough of it, be bored, yearn for something else? I highly doubt Akamatsu has thought of ever adressing this; it's not listed among the questions aimed in the story at Ialda's plans.

Likewise, when you are in a KE created paradise you aren't even interacting with the real people you loved, just with perfectly idealized depictions of them. If you choose this, did you even actually loved anyone warts and all, or just loved what they made you feel at their best? Aren't you, then, in the end just minding about your own gratification while throwing around excuses on how the others are 'happy' too?

Same with Ialda's absolute 'empathy' to begin with. It's only an issue because the same arbitrary rules that put it in place say that Ialda, despite all of her thousand plot convenient powers that only fail her whenever she needs to job again (preferably off panel) conveniently cannot just use a power or another to block the pain, faze it, mind condition herself not to feel it, or something else like that.

To sum up; the whole plot hinges on things that are too 'made up' for the story's own good. Anything and everything, from why characters like Dana just don't fix everything except when they do, to how hopeless the situation is at any time or another, all of it just relies on whatever Akamatsu best feels fits the story's march at the time. The puppets show their strings way too much.
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Old 2021-05-08, 09:55   Link #7134
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by NapoleonDeCheese View Post
Is it even possible to be perfectly happy forever? Realistically, at some point, wouldn't the human mind have enough of it, be bored, yearn for something else?
Not if you make it forget it's been happy for so long. Even IRL, I don't think it's completely implausible for brain damage to make someone unable to feel anything other than happiness and contentment. You can get all kind of weird shit.
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Old 2021-05-08, 10:50   Link #7135
SilverGlavenus
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Touta x Eva ship is pushed hard in recent chapters. Let's hope the author doesn't opt for some half ass resolutions.

Dana is nowhere to be seen in the last panel. I guess she is too OP for this battle lol.
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Old 2021-05-08, 11:02   Link #7136
Golden Lily
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That's actually something Shelly Kagan covered in his book Death, asking if people really desire immortality, this's what he said:

We can put the point in the form of dilemma. Could immortality be something worth having forever? On the one hand, if we make that immortal person be similiar to me, the boredom's going to set in. The only way to avoid that is to lobotomize me, and obviously that's not desirable. On the other hand, if we solve the boredom with progressive memory loss and radical personality changes, then maybe boredom won't set in, but that life isn't anything that I especially want for myself. If just doesn't matter to me that it's still going to be me, anymore than it would matter to me if you were just to tell me, "Oh, there'll be somebody else around who happens to like organic chemistry, and atonal music"
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Old 2021-05-08, 11:31   Link #7137
NapoleonDeCheese
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Not if you make it forget it's been happy for so long.
Nothing in the Kosmo Entelekheias so far has shown they wipe the minds from its own contentedness feeling as a standard procedure, though. That'd be a jump of assumption.

As a matter of fact, actually, every mental world Ialda has had a hand in is invariably pierced through by the heroes in one way or another. Not always managing to break from it, but remarkably, they shouldn't even be compromised at all in the first place.
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Old 2021-05-08, 11:32   Link #7138
Endscape
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Originally Posted by Shippuu View Post
I probably shouldn't hope for an explanation how Evangeline managed to defeat not just Ialda, but Negi-Ialda. An opponent so vastly above her she defeated Yukihime instantly before.
Apparently, she used Negi's ninth spell to finish the job.

Quote:
I would have preferred seeing these two fights and their tragic endings than having to watch this gaudy soap opera where Yukihime gets saved by her son-husband so she can be one of his many bimbos.
Looking at this chapter, I wouldn't be surprised if Eva ends up dying along with Ialda in order to stop the chain of possessions.

Quote:
This chapter also reinforces my hatred for Lotus-Eater Machine stories. Ialda makes perfectly valid points. They always do.
Yet they always end up forcing their plan on people. Consent is a thing that exists. If Ialda was only putting people in Cosmo Entelecheia that wanted to be there, I wouldn't have a have a problem with it. The protags wouldn't either. But the fact that she won't do that betrays the conceit at the heart of her plan.

Quote:
Does the final scene happen inside Ialda's mind or are they hanging out in the rift between worlds for some reason?
Her mind.

Quote:
Ialda says this endless battle has been raging since time began. Is she massively exaggerating or has she actually been constantly defeated for thousands of years? Just when I thought she couldn't get more pathethic.
She has been alive for thousands of years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NapoleonDeCheese View Post
Of course, much like the morals and ethic dilemmas on immortality, the morals and ethic dilemmas on Ialda's plans are no relatable through real world means because they work on principles too apart from reality. There's nothing at all like a perfect virtual paradise encompassing all of mankind, just like there's no way to make humans immortal, so those are issues that are given a lot of lip service but hold absolutely no real resonance for our lives. A whole bunch of meaningless stuff that just tries to sound meaningful and deep, but falls apart when you look closely at it and realize it's just a made up predicament built on made up premises.
I wouldn't say it's completely unrelateable. People having been dreaming about and writing stories about this kind of thing for years. That says enough about us as a species that it bears discussion.

Quote:
Is it even possible to be perfectly happy forever? Realistically, at some point, wouldn't the human mind have enough of it, be bored, yearn for something else? I highly doubt Akamatsu has thought of ever adressing this; it's not listed among the questions aimed in the story at Ialda's plans.
Eva actually brought up that same point this chapter though.

Quote:
Same with Ialda's absolute 'empathy' to begin with. It's only an issue because the same arbitrary rules that put it in place say that Ialda, despite all of her thousand plot convenient powers that only fail her whenever she needs to job again (preferably off panel) conveniently cannot just use a power or another to block the pain, faze it, mind condition herself not to feel it, or something else like that.
Seems pretty clear that even if she could fix it, she wouldn't, because she sees it as some proof of her moral superiority.
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Old 2021-05-08, 15:38   Link #7139
NapoleonDeCheese
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That... That's just plain dumb from her. Especially when by now she should have realized that her way has never worked despite literally having thousands of years and untold resources at her avail.
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Old 2021-05-09, 08:40   Link #7140
haseo0408
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Originally Posted by Shippuu View Post
Obviously there is no magic to fix mankind's suffering. As long as people exist reality compels infinite suffering. There is no way out of it. Negi's idea of throwing money and technology at a problem born of human nature will never fix anything. That's the whole point of Kosmo Entelekheia. And Ialda isn't a sociopath. She's an empath. That's the problem. She cares too much. She cannot accept that the world isn't as it should be and just ignore people trapped in lives and circumstances so miserable and unfair they cannot escape them on their own. Or even endure them. Ialda's plan doesn't just benefit herself. It benefits everyone. The people who already lead happy lives will continue to do so. But what about the people who will never be saved and probably vastly outnumber the few lucky enough to lead privileged lives? Fuck them? It can't be helped? Kosmo Entelekheia offers them a chance to be something they never could in reality, no matter how long or how hard they try. Happy. And isn't that the only thing that matters?

It's fine if you don't agree with Ialda. That's not the point. The point is that I want people to actually acknowledge each other's arguments and have a decent discussion about it instead of them beating Ialda, patting themselves on the back for a job well done, celebrating the murder of someone who ultimately just wanted to help people and going back home to worship the status quo while the rest of humanity continues to suffer. Just like Negima had a decent discussion about the ethics of time travel instead of glorifying it like ever other story ever made. That's one of the reasons why the arc was so good in the first place. The salvation of all humanity in the present at the cost of its future presents an interesting conflict but Akamatsu and most writers are simply not competent enough to make a compelling story out of it. But in that case there is no point in going down this route in the first place and he might as well have turned Ialda into someone mustache-twirling evil with a god complex who wants to rule over humanity as her slaves.
Well, here is the thing, I think Akamatsu has done a great job with the story of Ialda because there is no real need to go deep into her motivations, sheÂīs insane beyond belive and her Kosmo Enthelekia spell could never make any person happy in the run because her as an individual does not understand others nor cares for them at all. All of her actions until now is her selfishness to continue her immortal life but without any of the downsides.

In a way, Ialda is a perfect example of what happens to an immortal when you give them unlimited time and unlimited power but no mental resistance to withstand eternity and true companions to share it.
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