Hong Kong Current Events

[SeijiSensei]

I recall a seizure of some small explosives early in the demonstrations. At the time it looked more like a PR stunt than a real threat, but I began to wonder if there might be few bigger ones hidden away in dark recesses of Hong Kong. Weapons and explosives are pretty easily to move around these days even, I'd imagine, into Hong Kong.

[Yu Ominae]

https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion...eover-mainland

Interesting editorial.

[Yu Ominae]

Two things happened in HK:

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Leg Co is considering an anti-mask law to make it illegal since the protestors are using it to hide their faces.

Protest groups are condemning it since they face unjust treatment from the HKPF.

Washington has made the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act official and it passed since both parties support it.

[SeijiSensei]

Well, no, the Act was passed out of committee in both chambers but still requires floor votes. Then the bill will go to a conference committee where any differences between the House and Senate wordings are worked out. Then the revised bill will again be subject to floor votes.

And, of course, it would need to be signed into law by President Trump. Given the revelations of the Ukraine crisis, we might expect Trump to try and use signing the bill as leverage against Xi.

Good coverage by the South China Morning Post here: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...-and-democracy

[Yu Ominae]

The said officer involved in using a shotgun to deter protestors has been quoted to contemplate the decision of at least putting his kids in Shenzhen due to being doxxed and harrassed.

From SCMP:

A Hong Kong police officer lauded in mainland China after he pointed a shotgun at anti-government protesters said he wanted to move his children to Shenzhen for a better education and safety.

Sergeant Lau Chak-kei said there were problems with the education system in Hong Kong, the Xinmin Evening News reported on Saturday.

“Most of the people [taking part in the unrest in Hong Kong] are students ... I don’t want my children to grow up in that environment,” he said, adding that mainland students had better values because they recognised that they were Chinese.

Lau said he also wanted to move his two children because personal details about them had been posted online, forcing them to cancel all after school activities out concern for their safety.

“They have to cancel swimming and cycling,” he was quoted as saying.

Lau is among 10 police officers who have been invited to Beijing for the National Day festivities on October 1.

Hong Kong police officer who pointed shotgun at protesters is featured on Chinese state television’s prime-time news show Xinwen Lianbo

He said he hoped to walk the Great Wall, eat Peking duck, and get a glimpse of China’s military aircraft, tanks and missiles. He said the management of the Great Wall told him that they would open a “special channel” for him, so he could avoid the crowds at the site during the holiday.

“Since I was young, I have hoped to visit the Great Wall ... My wish will come true now,” he said.

“And I look forward to seeing the military parade on National Day ... It is an honour.”

Lau was hailed as a hero by Chinese state media after he pointed a Remington shotgun loaded with beanbag rounds at hundreds of protesters besieging Kwai Chung Police Station on the night of July 30. The incident was part of the unrest that has gripped the city since June over a now-shelved bill that would have allowed the extradition of criminal suspects to the mainland.

The Kwai Chung incident prompted widespread criticism in the city, but police defended Lau’s actions, saying he feared for his life after being surrounded by protesters and losing his helmet.

“If we could solve this problem without using force, then we would not use force. We don’t want anyone to get hurt,” the report quoted Lau as saying.

But he added: “The Hong Kong police force should be tougher”.

Mainland and Hong Kong government officials have strongly supported the Hong Kong police, stressing their role in stopping the unrest in Hong Kong.

Lau and some other police officers have also opened a Twitter-like Weibo account, posting messages of gratitude for the mainland’s support of the police. In one of the posts, Lau said police were too lenient towards the protesters.

[Yu Ominae]

RTHK has an English docu on the expats/minorities who also take part in reporting/joining the protest movement:

[Toukairin]

No one talking about HKPF officers pointing guns at protesters and then one shooting at a teenager from point blank? There is a good reason why riot squads DO NOT draw firearms when their job is to deal with close quarters confrontations. The cop had a helmet, eye protection, a ballistic vest, a shield, a full special suit, and God knows what else to prevent severe injuries. And yet he shot on the teenager (armed with only a pipe) in the chest with a revolver. Seriously, the pig in uniform is a fucking idiot.

As a result, more protests have come up in the aftermath of that shit from the HKPF.

Hong Kong: thousands protest over police shooting of teenager

The fucker should feel lucky that the teenager didn't die from that wound, but no one here should kid oneself here. From the moment civilians will die, I will not shed a single tear when police officers will taste the same treatment by the angry people. Any police officer who is not fit to uphold the motto "To protect and serve the citizen" deserves to be fed to the wolves.

[Infinite Zenith]

The individual is now facing charges of assault against an officer. Meanwhile, the Emergency Regulations Ordinance was invoked, banning face masks, and Apple has removed HKmap Live from the App Store.

[Toukairin]

Originally Posted by Infinite Zenith

The individual is now facing charges of assault against an officer. Meanwhile, the Emergency Regulations Ordinance was invoked, banning face masks, and Apple has removed HKmap Live from the App Store.

Just ridiculous. Illegal use of firearms and violation of the rules of engagement charges should be pinned against that jackass cop.

[Infinite Zenith]

Out of curiosity, what are the provincial laws in Quebec for rushing a police officer with a metal pipe?

[Toukairin]

Originally Posted by Infinite Zenith

Out of curiosity, what are the provincial laws in Quebec for rushing a police officer with a metal pipe?

Except that our cops don't esalate the situation by drawing their firearms out in the open while a demonstration is going on. It is against all regulations and rules of engagement. Hell, they don't even use their nightsticks to beat anybody. Besides, have you seen how heavily equipped that HK cop was? I don't think that using a firearm is a proportional response to the threat, especially when that pipe would bruise the cop at best.

edit: I have not seen HK cops using tasers at all since since this whole thing started. How do you explain that?

[Infinite Zenith]

Tasers are actually counted as unreliable because of their mode of operation and effective range (per an NPR article dated June 2019); they’re better at around 2 meters than say, half a meter. Next, had the rioter been left unchecked, other rioters would also swarm the officer and likely have inflicted serious injuries. My original question remains unanswered, and for reference, police have shot folks in my area for wielding a weapon – back in August, a person armed with a baseball bat was shot after making threats and not standing down, and in June, a woman who discharged pepper spray at an officer was killed. By comparison, law enforcement in Hong Kong have been remarkably disciplined: the fact that no one has been killed speaks to this discipline.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but it sounds like you’re looking at the law enforcement in Hong Kong to just lie down and let rioters continue to vandalise, destroy and even kill at will. The original issue is lost to the violence, and I should make clear that while I am against the extradition bill that started this, dissatisfaction with the bill does not justify destructive acts and violence. There’s a difference between opposing the bill and openly suggesting the rioters should be allowed to conduct arson and murder without consequence.

[Eisdrache]

This goes both ways. The police are the enforcing arm of the Chinese government which includes the bill as well. It is highly hypocritical to be against the bill while indirectly praising the police for their disciplined violence.

Originally Posted by Infinite Zenith

My original question remains unanswered, and for reference, police have shot folks in my area for wielding a weapon – back in August, a person armed with a baseball bat was shot after making threats and not standing down, and in June, a woman who discharged pepper spray at an officer was killed.

Using excessive gun use to defend other instances of excessive force isn't exactly the smartest argument.

And since you are inevitably going to take it this way, no I don't suggest to let the rioters run amok but I also don't think using a shotgun on them is anywhere close to an appropriate response. Let's not falsely equate violent protesters to violent police. This is the way the police chose to play and it should not be surprising that the protesters aren't simply going to roll over and accept it.

[Toukairin]

And that is not to saying of strong rumors persist about police officers disgusing themselves as protesters before they launch Molotov cocktails and thus are responsible for vandalism.

[Infinite Zenith]

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

This goes both ways. The police are the enforcing arm of the Chinese government which includes the bill as well. It is highly hypocritical to be against the bill while indirectly praising the police for their disciplined violence.

I’m directly praising them, and hypocrisy is not at play here. When the protests started, the police did not employ anti-riot measures. The citizens had the right to assemble without fear of harm. There’s a separation between the bill and what the rioters are doing presently: the rioters themselves don’t have a goal in mind beyond wanton destruction, unlike the protestors of June.

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

Using excessive gun use to defend other instances of excessive force isn't exactly the smartest argument.

So, enlighten me as to what those "smartest" arguments are. A citizen does not have the right to attack law enforcement, and law enforcement are trained to respond to a situation. The consequences of their actions are investigated after and then judged as to whether they are lawful, but the rioter who got shot in this case cannot say that it was an improbable outcome of rushing the cop with a pipe. That’s what I’m getting at.

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

And since you are inevitably going to take it this way, no I don't suggest to let the rioters run amok but I also don't think using a shotgun on them is anywhere close to an appropriate response. Let's not falsely equate violent protesters to violent police. This is the way the police chose to play and it should not be surprising that the protesters aren't simply going to roll over and accept it.

Selective portrayal by the media and social media alike means the rioter’s instigation is not shown. The police have not started any violence, the violence ensues as a result of it becoming increasingly difficult to dissuade rioters from dealing damage or trespassing. The shotgun was loaded with bean bags, not buckshot, and the full video shows the rioters threatening officers first. Without a full picture, I’d anticipate that discussion moving ahead will be based on emotion and speculation, which isn’t particularly useful.

Originally Posted by Toukairin

And that is not to saying of strong rumors persist about police officers disgusing themselves as protesters before they launch Molotov cocktails and thus are responsible for vandalism.

Rumours are merely thus. Until hard evidence surfaces, I’ll reserve the right to skepticism.

[Eisdrache]

Originally Posted by Infinite Zenith

The citizens had the right to assemble without fear of harm. There’s a separation between the bill and what the rioters are doing presently: the rioters themselves don’t have a goal in mind beyond wanton destruction, unlike the protestors of June.

Originally Posted by Infinite Zenith

The police have not started any violence, the violence ensues as a result of it becoming increasingly difficult to dissuade rioters from dealing damage or trespassing.

Please. There is evidence of the police using literal torture and other violent methods against protesters with little to no distinction between aggressive and peaceful protesters. It is a naive illusion that the Chinese government only resorted to these methods after they felt their interests threatened.

[Infinite Zenith]

Amnesty International alone isn’t trustworthy without additional sources, considering their tendency for bias whenever it suits them.

[Toukairin]

Originally Posted by Infinite Zenith

Amnesty International alone isn’t trustworthy without additional sources, considering their tendency for bias whenever it suits them.

As much as you not being trustworthy of anything because of your pro-police bias when those ****s in uniform deserve to rot in jail by now. You and I, we're done.

[Eisdrache]

Great, now we're back to the I don't believe any source that doesn't say what I already believe card. I'm sure you do have reliable sources that support your statements. You do, right?

[Yu Ominae]

Welp.

Emergency law is enacted to prevent people from using masks to hide the face, whether it’s a lawful protest or not.

MTR and other transport services are being restricted. My app mentions that all lines are closed.

Read a story of someone being shot at Yuen Long by an off-duty officer in a non-HKPF car. Gotta look for the article again.