(L+CR) Overlord Season 3

[TheForsaken]

Originally Posted by The 48th Ronin

So the Kingdom & Empire battle each other on a yearly basis. Talk about pointless bloodshed.

Can't they just, you know, do some annual fighting tournament or something?

It's not pointless. A pointless war is a war where neither side gains anything.
The Empire benefits from this war, that's why they keep doing it.

[nojay]

Originally Posted by Sixth

But now Nazarick is no longer bound by the game mechanic. If a party of Lv100 players transported to the New World, Nazarick will fall for real unless Ainz ordered all his NPC back to Nazarick for maximum security and never leave Nazarick for good.

Ainz Ooal Gown always leaves someone like Demiurge or Albedo in charge any time he leaves Nazarick, and there are other NPCs who aren't part of his first-line entourage who, it is said, are even tougher than the Floor Guardians (Albedo's sisters for example). He's got Gate to get him and anyone else outside back to Nazarick in a hurry if needed.

How big is this supposed party of lv100 players who could topple Nazarick in-world? The attempt to break Nazarick in-game required a number of allied top-level guilds bringing along their own top-level NPCs for support, a total of 1500 maxed-out fighters and they only made it to the 8th Floor and no further. On the other hand Nazarick doesn't have the 41 Supreme Beings any more to bolster the defences, just Ainz but he's got all the goodies they left behind which is a big boost. Attack is always harder than defence.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by nojay

Ainz Ooal Gown always leaves someone like Demiurge or Albedo in charge any time he leaves Nazarick, and there are other NPCs who aren't part of his first-line entourage who, it is said, are even tougher than the Floor Guardians (Albedo's sisters for example). He's got Gate to get him and anyone else outside back to Nazarick in a hurry if needed.

How big is this supposed party of lv100 players who could topple Nazarick in-world? The attempt to break Nazarick in-game required a number of allied top-level guilds bringing along their own top-level NPCs for support, a total of 1500 maxed-out fighters and they only made it to the 8th Floor and no further. On the other hand Nazarick doesn't have the 41 Supreme Beings any more to bolster the defences, just Ainz but he's got all the goodies they left behind which is a big boost. Attack is always harder than defence.

And if I remember correctly, the guild only received Gargantua afterwards, who is like a raid boss.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by nojay

Ainz Ooal Gown always leaves someone like Demiurge or Albedo in charge any time he leaves Nazarick, and there are other NPCs who aren't part of his first-line entourage who, it is said, are even tougher than the Floor Guardians (Albedo's sisters for example). He's got Gate to get him and anyone else outside back to Nazarick in a hurry if needed.

How big is this supposed party of lv100 players who could topple Nazarick in-world? The attempt to break Nazarick in-game required a number of allied top-level guilds bringing along their own top-level NPCs for support, a total of 1500 maxed-out fighters and they only made it to the 8th Floor and no further. On the other hand Nazarick doesn't have the 41 Supreme Beings any more to bolster the defences, just Ainz but he's got all the goodies they left behind which is a big boost. Attack is always harder than defence.

As I said..there is a difference between game and reality. In the game, all those NPC will always be stationed at their spot for 24/7 without resting. In the reality, Ainz may foolishly send his NPC away to do his whatever errand and stuff and end up spreading his forces thin which may give the party Lv100 an opportunity to take down those NPC one by one.

Don't forget that in the reality, climbing or destroying the building from outside is actually a possible strategy to do so. In the game, if you want to conquer the Nazarick dungeon, please use the front door entrance like everyone did.

[Rnzlr]

Originally Posted by Sixth

As I said..there is a difference between game and reality. In the game, all those NPC will always be stationed at their spot for 24/7 without resting. In the reality, Ainz may foolishly send his NPC away to do his whatever errand and stuff and end up spreading his forces thin which may give the party Lv100 an opportunity to take down those NPC one by one.

And they always can get back immediately using teleportation.

If a party of Lv100 players transported to the New World, Nazarick will fall for real

Demiurge will

Ainz may

Mare would

If Ainz

*mod snip*

[Keila]

Originally Posted by Sixth

Don't forget that in the reality, climbing or destroying the building from outside is actually a possible strategy to do so. In the game, if you want to conquer the Nazarick dungeon, please use the front door entrance like everyone did.

Fairly certain that 'breaking' into an underground dungeon (tomb) via excavation would take a hell of a lot more effort than trying to brute force your way in via the established passageways, even if they are all reinforced and configured into a death-trap

+ You'd have to clear out all of the terrain (think open quarries), or
+ You'd have to excavate and then reinforce a tunnel (assuming you wanted a route in and out)
+ You may or may not have an understanding of the structure spatially (and from a conceptual standpoint the entire structure is massive in both coverage area and total depth/height)


Rooms like the Treasury are not even connected to the 'core' structure spatially, it could literally be anywhere

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

Ainz should be worried only on two possibilities... One, he is betrayed by Nazarick member like what happened on Shalltear... Two, another Ainz Ooal Gown somehow appeared and try to re-take the authority from him

It's not like Shalltear decided to betray Ainz on her own. Someone used a world class item on her. Whoever they may be, they would be my first and foremost concern.

[Ultragunner]

hm...so Ainz really likes spamming the Death Knights eh?
Maybe because they have low cost?

IIRC, a Death Knight is about Lv 35 aka human "hero" level

What about other undead soldiers of Nazarick e.g Nazarick Old Guarders, Elder Guarders, Master Guarders? How strong are they? Including their full equipment set too

[Rnzlr]

Originally Posted by Ultragunner

hm...so Ainz really likes spamming the Death Knights eh?
Maybe because they have low cost?

IIRC, a Death Knight is about Lv 35 aka human "hero" level

What about other undead soldiers of Nazarick e.g Nazarick Old Guarders, Elder Guarders, Master Guarders? How strong are they? Including their full equipment set too

There should've been Soul Eaters. Death Knights rode Soul Eaters. I gusess it's too much to handle for current Madhouse xD

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by Rnzlr

And they always can get back immediately using teleportation.

If a party of Lv100 players transported to the New World, Nazarick will fall for real

Demiurge will

Ainz may

Mare would

If Ainz

*mod snip*

So you assumed that those Lv100 party can't disable the teleportation or put a barrier like what Ainz did to Sunlight group? Also, why would you assume that lv100 party will invade Nazarick when they can choose to ambush Nazarick NPC one by one at the outside world if given the opportunity?

Also, dude, someone brought up "Lv100 party in NW" post and of course, I am going to answer that with something that based on speculation and assumption because at this moment, Lv100 party doesn't exist in the NW.

Originally Posted by Keila

Fairly certain that 'breaking' into an underground dungeon (tomb) via excavation would take a hell of a lot more effort than trying to brute force your way in via the established passageways, even if they are all reinforced and configured into a death-trap

Well, that does depend on whether the Lv100 Party has Super S tier spell or something powerful enough to level a mountain or city.

[Fwarlord]

Originally Posted by Endscape

It wasn't necessary. Even if it was, he should have sent one of his subordinates with instructions to not kill more than necessary and asked Lupusregina to protect them, not send in an enemy to simply attack.

He already weakened the troll's force considerably so that he couldn't kill too many, what's your point?

Why do you think he was willing to ally with his enemies and called it a fight for humanity? Because he believes that Ainz wants to kill everyone.

Because he is an arrogant hypocrite who uses the race card to rally the world behind him, for the sake of defeating an enemy he alone can't defeat. He lies, like any politician.

The ends don't justify the means, especially when said means aren't absolutely necessary to begin with.

It's only true if you see thing from a holier-than-thou moral high ground. The original argument is that no one wants AInz's utopia. I just point out most normal people will accept it.

Because they don't know what he's doing behind the scenes.

Why do they even want to know if they get a much better life under his rule?

The idea of oppressing the minority to bring benefits to the majority

It's called necessary evil.

You don't need to convince everyone. You convince the influential people, change policy and trends and the rest fall into line when that method becomes profitable.

It's purely speculations on your part. From what we have seen, the nobles are stubborn like hell and the "influential people" like Zanac and the marquis aren't anywhere influential enough to change their mindset.

You're fine with mass murder to create a utopia, but bribery is a no-no?

Because mass murder will stop after the utopia is created, but bribery will have to be constantly practiced for the society to not crumble and only get worse as the time goes by. It's also very counterproductive since it bankrupts the nation eventually as proven many times in history.

So you admit he's deceiving them.

He didn't try to lie about his nature, which you indicated.

Most of them had no interest in the outside world until Ainz led them there.

Except the anime show many examples of the exact opposite. Most of them hate humans right down to the core and have fun torturing/killing them.

Ainz only cares about the benefit of Nazarick. If he had to choose between killing 100,000 normal folks and the life of one of those Level 1 maids he has, he'd kill the 100,000 in a heartbeat. How can someone like that be trusted with the lives of normal people.

Normal people just need to become Ainz's subject.

No one is incorruptible, especially not Ainz. Even if he were, that doesn't mean his subordinates are. We've seen Demiurge and the rest of them go off script, and Ainz cares more about coddling them than the lives of others.

The NPCs are 200% loyal to Ainz and put Nazarick's benefit about their own. All of their mistakes thus far were just accidents. After being corrected by Ainz, they no longer committed them. What more you can ask from civil servants?

Was that merit worth their lives, or the damage done to their village?

I'm not sure and neither are you, since we don't know the exact number of deaths. But one thing for sure, the village got stronger after that.

No he didn't. If he did, he would have ordered Lupusregina to make sure none of them died.

The attack would have been meaningless if none of them had died. The point is people become stronger after live-or-die situations.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Ultragunner

hm...so Ainz really likes spamming the Death Knights eh?

IIRC, a Death Knight is about Lv 35 aka human "hero" level

Nah, I just think Ainz made an impression with them and decided to stick with it.

Level 30 (or lvl 60 by NW standards) is usually the pinnacle of achievement in the New World. The Death Knight is actually above that, which is enough to send chills down the spine of even the strongest adventurer. OTOH, people like Eveileye and Fluder are simply the rare of rares.

Originally Posted by Ultragunner

What about other undead soldiers of Nazarick e.g Nazarick Old Guarders, Elder Guarders, Master Guarders? How strong are they? Including their full equipment set too

Low level Skeleton Soldiers tend to require a Tier 4 summoning spell. While fully equipped Skeletons, the Elder types, are said to be comparable to that of a Mythril level adventurer, or Class A (lvl 25 ~ 30, or 51 ~ 60 by NW standards).

Originally Posted by Rnzlr

If a party of Lv100 players transported to the New World, Nazarick will fall for real

Originally Posted by Sixth

So you assumed that those Lv100 party can't disable the teleportation or put a barrier like what Ainz did to Sunlight group? Also, why would you assume that lv100 party will invade Nazarick when they can choose to ambush Nazarick NPC one by one at the outside world if given the opportunity?

Just to clarify, the Tomb of Nazarick did withstand an invasion of a massive raid party of over 1,500 Lv100 players, and it survived. The party reached as far as Floor 8, defeating Aureole Omega in the process before Victim was activated.

Conquest of Floor 8 means any enemy party could gain access to every entry & exit point of Nazarick, which would allow them to reinforce from the outside. Victim was made to stop just that.

But the key point is, it still took a 1,500 raid party of lvl 100 players to do the job. I can only wonder where you can find 1,500 these days. Moreover, it is true that NPCs can theoretically be ambushed and killed, but they can also be resurrected quickly without penalties.

- Tak

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Fwarlord

He already weakened the troll's force considerably so that he couldn't kill too many, what's your point?

Too many is too much, especially when they didn't need to die at all.

Because he is an arrogant hypocrite who uses the race card to rally the world behind him, for the sake of defeating an enemy he alone can't defeat. He lies, like any politician.

Jircniv certainly isn't a perfect or even a good person, but he cares about humanity not getting destroyed.

It's only true if you see thing from a holier-than-thou moral high ground. The original argument is that no one wants AInz's utopia.

You don't need to go on any particular moral high ground to reject someone coming and killing you for something you didn't ask for.

I just point out most normal people will accept it.

Not if they knew what he was doing behind the scenes.

Why do they even want to know if they get a much better life under his rule?

They deserve to know. Getting Ainz's idea of a better life doesn't mean they should remain ignorant.

It's called necessary evil.

Necessary for the oppressors, maybe. There's very few times when it's necessary for everyone.

It's purely speculations on your part. From what we have seen, the nobles are stubborn like hell and the "influential people" like Zanac and the marquis aren't anywhere influential enough to change their mindset.

It's certainly not impossible. It's just harder than Ainz's tyranny. Something being easier doesn;t make it more worthwhile.

Because mass murder will stop after the utopia is created, but bribery will have to be constantly practiced for the society to not crumble and only get worse as the time goes by. It's also very counterproductive since it bankrupts the nation eventually as proven many times in history.

What makes you so sure the mass murder will stop? What makes you so sure that economic development won't make bribery less profitable.

He didn't try to lie about his nature, which you indicated.

He lies to people that he's a fair ruler. We can see that he's completely willing to lie, cheat or even break deals as long as it benefits him.

Except the anime show many examples of the exact opposite. Most of them hate humans right down to the core and have fun torturing/killing them.

Until Ainz let them out of their cage, they sere content to stay in Nazarick, most of them think think the outside world is filthy anyway.

Normal people just need to become Ainz's subject.

That won't help them if Ainz decides they need to die for Nazarick's sake.

The NPCs are 200% loyal to Ainz and put Nazarick's benefit about their own. All of their mistakes thus far were just accidents. After being corrected by Ainz, they no longer committed them. What more you can ask from civil servants?

The core problem remains the same. The NPC's think nothing of life outside Nazarick and Ainz has no interest in fixing that problem. They'll continue to do whatever they want as long as they can justify it as helping Nazarick and Ainz will continue to allow it.

I'm not sure and neither are you, since we don't know the exact number of deaths. But one thing for sure, the village got stronger after that.

I am sure, no amount of getting stronger merits or excusing Ainz putting their lives in danger without telling them.

The attack would have been meaningless if none of them had died. The point is people become stronger after live-or-die situations.

It's possible to get training without putting lives in danger.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by Tak

Just to clarify, the Tomb of Nazarick did withstand an invasion of a massive raid party of over 1,500 Lv100 players, and it survived. The party reached as far as Floor 8, defeating Aureole Omega in the process before Victim was activated.

Conquest of Floor 8 means any enemy party could gain access to every entry & exit point of Nazarick, which would allow them to reinforce from the outside. Victim was made to stop just that.

But the key point is, it still took a 1,500 raid party of lvl 100 players to do the job. I can only wonder where you can find 1,500 these days. Moreover, it is true that NPCs can theoretically be ambushed and killed, but they can also be resurrected quickly without penalties.

- Tak

There is a difference between in-game and the reality. Nazarick may be unbeatable in the game but it may or may not unbeatable due that they and other players are no longer operated by the game mechanic in the New World, and I am pretty sure killing NPCs in NW will hurt Nazarick a lot since it costs a lot lot lot of gold to revive them. Ultimately, it depends on what kind of approach that Lv100 party would want to use to deal with Ainz and his NPCs and how and where Ainz assigned his NPCs. If they still treat it as a game and foolishly to attack Nazarick at the front door, then they deserve to die for real by Ainz's hands.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by Tak

Again, the keypoint is, it took a party of 1,500 to even reach floor 8. How many level 100 players do you think the NW could summon, if any could be summoned at all? Never mind that each of the Tomb guardians is more than a match against any PC.

Again, that assuming those Lv100 party chose to invade Nazarick openly instead of trying to ambush Ainz and NPC at outside Nazarick. No one is denying or doubting the Nazarick's maximum defense here. Don't forget that Ainz loves to go outside alone or with minimum protection. So assassinating, ambushing, killing Ainz is actually doable if the Lv100 party's goal is to kill Ainz...Again, I said DOABLE, not guaranteed.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Sixth

Again, that assuming those Lv100 party chose to invade Nazarick openly instead of trying to ambush Ainz and NPC at outside Nazarick. No one is denying or doubting the Nazarick's maximum defense here. Don't forget that Ainz loves to go outside alone or with minimum protection. So assassinating, ambushing, killing Ainz is actually doable if the Lv100 party's goal is to kill Ainz...Again, I said DOABLE, not guaranteed.

Well my dear, gotta find the said lvl 100 player party first.

- Tak

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by Tak

Well my dear, gotta find the said lvl 100 player party first.

- Tak

We have been discussing "what if" scenario here until now so I don't understand why do you bringing this up now and not earlier?

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Sixth

Again, that assuming those Lv100 party chose to invade Nazarick openly instead of trying to ambush Ainz and NPC at outside Nazarick. No one is denying or doubting the Nazarick's maximum defense here. Don't forget that Ainz loves to go outside alone or with minimum protection. So assassinating, ambushing, killing Ainz is actually doable if the Lv100 party's goal is to kill Ainz...Again, I said DOABLE, not guaranteed.

Ambushing them would be tough, they're most likely using magic to avoid being detected or observed, so I doubt any party could pull off an ambush without inside info.

[Rnzlr]

Originally Posted by Sixth

So you assumed that those Lv100 party can't disable the teleportation or put a barrier like what Ainz did to Sunlight group? Also, why would you assume that lv100 party will invade Nazarick when they can choose to ambush Nazarick NPC one by one at the outside world if given the opportunity?

Also, dude, someone brought up "Lv100 party in NW" post and of course, I am going to answer that with something that based on speculation and assumption because at this moment, Lv100 party doesn't exist in the NW.



Well, that does depend on whether the Lv100 Party has Super S tier spell or something powerful enough to level a mountain or city.

Here we go again. I didn't assume anything, you did. I wrote that they can go back using teleportation. That's a fact. You again made an assuption that LvL 100 players could disable the teleportation, moreover, wrote that it was my assumption all along. Nobody knows if it's possible to disable teleportation. Another baseless assumption. In fact when Ainz fought Shalltear he only used spell "Delay Teleportation". Well, you can assume again that Ainz may not know that spell or can't use it while another players can xD

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Rnzlr

Here we go again. I didn't assume anything, you did. I wrote that they can go back using teleportation. That's a fact. You again made an assuption that LvL 100 players could disable the teleportation, moreover, wrote that it was my assumption all along. Nobody knows if it's possible to disable teleportation. Another baseless assumption. In fact when Ainz fought Shalltear he used spell "Delay Teleportation". Well, you can assume again that Ainz may not know that spell or can't use it while another players can xD

Actually among level 100 players in Yggdrasil, countermeasures for stuff like teleportation and instant death magic were common.