Fate/stay night UBW TV - Anime Spoilers, Speculation & Source Comparison

[Akogareru]

He just found out? Why doesn't he remember that? (I thought he was lying when he said he couldn't recall his memories/which hero he was, correct me if I'm wrong).

[Lorhand]

Originally Posted by Akogareru

He just found out? Why doesn't he remember that? (I thought he was lying when he said he couldn't recall his memories/which hero he was, correct me if I'm wrong).

Not sure if he just found out, as it's never revealed, but I assume that is the case. We don't know Archer's full past. As for his memories:

Archer [Servant]

[...]

The night he was summoned (after Rin went to sleep), he assessed the present situation, figured out his circumstances, and concluded that the opportunity to complete his objective had at long last appeared.

However, he didn't realize the girl who summoned him was Tohsaka Rin until she introduced herself. (His memory wasn't fuzzy, the name "Tohsaka Rin" had simply been worn away by time.) At that moment, it all came rushing back like lightning.

"Then I'll call you Rin. …Yes, it suits you well."

Archer's murmur at that time was thick with a heartfelt and madly passionate affection.

He doesn't have many of his memories left, but several scenes, like being saved by Kiritsugu, meeting Saber, Ilya and Rin, these didn't disappear. The Prologue actually started from Archer's POV and Nasu wondered in his online diary, why no one figured that out.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Akogareru

He just found out? Why doesn't he remember that? (I thought he was lying when he said he couldn't recall his memories/which hero he was, correct me if I'm wrong).

Have you read the VN?

[Akogareru]

Ty Lorhand. Yes I've read the VN, but most of the prologue stuff has escaped me.

[Amarantine]

Originally Posted by Akogareru

He just found out? Why doesn't he remember that? (I thought he was lying when he said he couldn't recall his memories/which hero he was, correct me if I'm wrong).

Most likely he doesn't remember because he can't remember, since he presumably never found out that Rin was the one who saved him that night, just like Shirou isn't aware of it either, hence why he stored it in this episode instead of returning it to her. Of course, IIRC the current Shirou will eventually find out in this route (but not in Fate or HF).

[Tenchi Hou Take]

It's implied he eventually found out about Rin, but he had part of his memories of the current time from the beginning which is why in one of that Fate materials it says upon hearing Rin name he had an affection akin to insanity, basically rather than the summoning fucking him up he had straight up forgotten things likely due to being a counter guardian. That and the whole sharing the same reality as Shirou business.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Amarantine

Most likely he doesn't remember because he can't remember, since he presumably never found out that Rin was the one who saved him that night, just like Shirou isn't aware of it either, hence why he stored it in this episode instead of returning it to her. Of course, IIRC the current Shirou will eventually find out in this route (but not in Fate or HF).

I think that Lorhand means the scene before the Prologue plays: Shirou's and Saber's meeting.

[Shyni]

Am I seeing things here, or do ufotable have a particular way with "still images of anime people walking down hallways"?

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[Rising Dragon]

It's called a dutch angle, and it is far from unique to ufotable.

[Shyni]

It's not really just the angle, I think, although I'm not sure what it would be.

[Stanfoo]

For the infodump church scene with Kirei and Shirou, he mentions a master coming close to securing the grail in the previous grail war but failed due to not fighting (he's talking about himself). But if we look back at F/Z he certainly did do plenty of fighting. So what's the deal?

[Fellen]

Originally Posted by Stanfoo

For the infodump church scene with Kirei and Shirou, he mentions a master coming close to securing the grail in the previous grail war but failed due to not fighting (he's talking about himself). But if we look back at F/Z he certainly did do plenty of fighting. So what's the deal?

I think he's talking about Kiritsugu.

[Stanfoo]

Originally Posted by Fellen

I think he's talking about Kiritsugu.

In the VN, Shirou responds and asks Kirei if the master he's talking about is himself. He doesn't outright say "yes" but pretty much acknowledges it.

[Dengar]

I was wondering whether Kirei would inherit his father's circle walking skill. I did not expect them to upgrade it to square walking.

[Raviel]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I was wondering whether Kirei would inherit his father's circle walking skill. I did not expect them to upgrade it to square walking.

There wasn't enough room for circle walking so he made do with what he had

Kirei was very disappointed that Rin didn't join him in the walking, apparently the Tohsaka art of circle walking died with Tokiomi

[Lorhand]

https://twitter.com/mo_noxgh/status/523497700063322112



It's a boot.

[Fellen]

Originally Posted by Lorhand

https://twitter.com/mo_noxgh/status/523497700063322112



It's a boot.

Shape walking !! Next time he'll walk a dolphin.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

Oh, get over it. First off, there are plenty of people who hated Shirou simply because of the VN. They didn't need any help from DEEN on that. Second, at this point, people are more "poisoned" by Prisma Illya than the DEEN adaptation. Anime viewers have ludicrously short attention spans. And third, the post you initially responded to was obvious trollbait. Maybe if you didn't wear a signature that basically screams "Troll me with something Shirou-related! I will overreact!", you wouldn't have this problem...

Actually, no, the person I responded to already had this opinion over half a year ago in the pre-air threads.

@bolded part:
There are indeed people who dislike or even hate HF!Shirou, but due to completely different reasons. Most of those who hate Shirou after reading the VN were mostly people who didn't know that there is more than 1 route and assumed they finished the whole VN after the Fate route (a mistake that can easily happen, without outside knowledge). I have yet to see a person that not only disliked, but actually hated Shirou in UBW (VN).

But you are right, the

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could be just around the corner.

[Amarantine]

Originally Posted by Stanfoo

For the infodump church scene with Kirei and Shirou, he mentions a master coming close to securing the grail in the previous grail war but failed due to not fighting (he's talking about himself). But if we look back at F/Z he certainly did do plenty of fighting. So what's the deal?

Honestly, I think it's just something Fate/Zero retconned, yet ufotable kept in for some reason. Most of what Kirei says about that Master who touched the Grail in the previous war doesn't make much sense anymore since it doesn't really match up with how the events were portrayed in Zero, regardless of whether he's talking about himself or Kiritsugu.

From the FSN VN:

Kirei: "The Holy Grail was imperfectly completed. It was the result of a foolish man, affected by sentiment."

(...)

Kirei: "It is easy to just make the Holy Grail appear. Once the seven Servants are present, the Holy Grail will appear in time. As Rin said, there is no need to kill other Masters. But that does not complete the Holy Grail. That thing decides its own appropriate master. And for that reason, it could not be obtained by a man who avoided battles."

Rin: "Heh, so that just means it's useless to obtain the Holy Grail without settling matches with the other Masters. The Master who obtained the Holy Grail first in the last war was just a chicken. He just ran away from the Holy Grail, saying that he didn't want to fight other Masters."

So saying, Tohsaka looks away from Kotomine.

Shirou: "No way."

Does that mean Kotomine was one of the Masters in the last war, and that he retired because he refused to fight in spite of obtaining the Holy Grail…!?

Shirou: "…Kotomine. You didn't fight?"

Kirei: "I did until halfway. But I made a bad decision. As a result, I only obtained an empty Holy Grail. Well, I guess that was my limit anyway. Because the other Masters were all monstrous. I lost my Servant first and was taken under my father's protection. Come to think of it, it was inappropriate for a son of the supervisor to be chosen as a Master.
Father died at that time. Since then, I have succeeded the role of the supervisor, and I protect the Holy Grail at this church."

According to Zero, the reason the Grail wasn't truly completed was because the war took too long and when the Grail came to be there were still 3 or so Servants around.

According to Zero, Kirei didn't really avoid battles (much less Kiritsugu), but the Grail chose to first hear Kiritsugu's wish (because he already embodied all the evils in the world), only Kerry, upon learning the Grail's true nature, had Saber destroy it. It's debatable whether the fire and disaster that ensued was the Grail granting Kirei's wish (since it did come into contact with him as well) for suffering and destruction or simply the result of Saber destroying it.

According to Zero, Kirei didn't run away from the Grail at all. He actively desired it after his conversations with Gilgamesh. So if his comments in FSN are to make sense we have to assume he's partially bullshitting Shirou and Rin and just referencing his behavior during the beginning of the war, when he just spied for Tokiomi with Assassin and didn't fight, but nothing of what came after.

Personally, I think it was just a Zero retcon, like with how Saber and Gil didn't really fight after all. But it's a bit sloppy of ufotable to include comments like that in the anime when they're clearly trying to make this a Zero sequel of sorts.

[Fellen]

Originally Posted by Amarantine

Honestly, I think it's just something Fate/Zero retconned, yet ufotable kept in for some reason. Most of what Kirei says about that Master who touched the Grail in the previous war doesn't make much sense anymore since it doesn't really match up with how the events were portrayed in Zero, regardless of whether he's talking about himself or Kiritsugu.

From the FSN VN:


According to Zero, the reason the Grail wasn't truly completed was because the war took too long and when the Grail came to be there were still 3 or so Servants around.

According to Zero, Kirei didn't really avoid battles (much less Kiritsugu), but the Grail chose to first hear Kiritsugu's wish (because he already embodied all the evils in the world), only Kerry, upon learning the Grail's true nature, had Saber destroy it. It's debatable whether the fire and disaster that ensued was the Grail granting Kirei's wish (since it did come into contact with him as well) for suffering and destruction or simply the result of Saber destroying it.

According to Zero, Kirei didn't run away from the Grail at all. He actively desired it after his conversations with Gilgamesh. So if his comments in FSN are to make sense we have to assume he's partially bullshitting Shirou and Rin and just referencing his behavior during the beginning of the war, when he just spied for Tokiomi with Assassin and didn't fight, but nothing of what came after.

Personally, I think it was just a Zero retcon, like with how Saber and Gil didn't really fight after all. But it's a bit sloppy of ufotable to include comments like that in the anime when they're clearly trying to make this a Zero sequel of sorts.

To me it sounds like he's talking about Kiritsugu.

Kirei: "The Holy Grail was imperfectly completed. It was the result of a foolish man, affected by sentiment."

This sounds like Kiritsugu not being willing to accept the embodiment of all the evils in the world.

Kirei: "It is easy to just make the Holy Grail appear. Once the seven Servants are present, the Holy Grail will appear in time. As Rin said, there is no need to kill other Masters. But that does not complete the Holy Grail. That thing decides its own appropriate master. And for that reason, it could not be obtained by a man who avoided battles."

Kiritsugu chose to destroy the Grail and end the war. The line about a 'man who avoided battles' could show Kirei's disappointment in Kiritsugu when he didn't fight Kirei after the fire.

Rin: "Heh, so that just means it's useless to obtain the Holy Grail without settling matches with the other Masters. The Master who obtained the Holy Grail first in the last war was just a chicken. He just ran away from the Holy Grail, saying that he didn't want to fight other Masters."

Kiritsugu ran away from the Grail while Kirei accepted it and wished for the Grail.

Kirei: "I did until halfway. But I made a bad decision. As a result, I only obtained an empty Holy Grail. Well, I guess that was my limit anyway. Because the other Masters were all monstrous. I lost my Servant first and was taken under my father's protection. Come to think of it, it was inappropriate for a son of the supervisor to be chosen as a Master.
Father died at that time. Since then, I have succeeded the role of the supervisor, and I protect the Holy Grail at this church."

Kirei is bullshitting so much here it's not even funny. ''I lost my Servant first and was taken under my father's protection.'' Kirei-kun did you forget about Gil and how you went back to the war.