Trump Tweets (no more)

[James Rye]

Originally Posted by Ayato_kanzaki

The Chinese are making huge gains by profiting from the US's . Among other things, they're really pushing the construction and weaponisation of artificial islands to claim most of the China Sea as their turf, confident the the US lack the ball to confront them over it, and the other players are too small to do anything but protest.

Europe is making more modest gains, too, by being more united, and gaining political influence as a reliable partner.

Trump has proven many times that he's extremely scared of confrontations.

I dunno, man. If you look at Italy there isn't that much unity. And that despite Brexit being a middle catastrophe so far and given that the Brexiters MPs are not ready to accept that their wishes are just fantasy and not reality it might get even worse.

[Ayato_kanzaki]

Brexit happening is a good thing for the rest of Europe. First, is set an example of what happen when a country decide to leave. UK is in for some pain, and their incompetent governement doesn't do anything to blunt it. Second, Uk has for a long time acted as a american mole in the EU to destabilise it. They helped the US in spying operations (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Socialist), wanted Turkey and it's dictator Erdoggan to join the EU, and didn't want the EU to form it's own army.

[Sheba]

I am not sure if it is the right place to post but here you go

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...lants-jhv94ghl

Trump administration officials are making plans to order grid operators to buy electricity from struggling coal and nuclear plants in an effort to extend their life, a move that could represent an unprecedented intervention into U.S. energy markets.

The God Emperor hath spoken! Renewable energy can go fck itself in a garbage fire, as long as the tiny proportion of the population involved in the coal industry are catered to. Earth can eventually doom everyone as long as he showed those Chinese conspirators and Liberals. That's all that counts for his worshippers, right?

Also:


https://twitter.com/EricLiptonNYT/st...09347745099776

This has got to be one for the record books. Oil industry joins with solar and wind industry to condemn Trump admin plan to prop up coal industry by forcing electric grid to buy coal power. Oil/wind/solar as allies? Fascinating times.

If you time travelled to the 1990s and told me that, I'd be laughing in your face.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Sheba

If you time travelled to the 1990s and told me that, I'd be laughing in your face.

I remember when clinton was president watching a CNN segment about a russian think tank that predicted the USA would become an authoritarian regime, I thought back then they were crazy.

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

I remember when clinton was president watching a CNN segment about a russian think tank that predicted the USA would become an authoritarian regime, I thought back then they were crazy.

Unless you talked to political theorist, who knew historically that democracy's fail and fall into that eventually. that Is why the united states was created as a republic and not a democracy. until one of the presidents changed it to a democracy in the 1800's.

[Eisdrache]

A democracy doesn't "eventually fail and turn into an authoritarian regime". Sure there are some but there are many more that didn't. I don't know where you found these political theorists but they are wrong.

As for your second part, the US didn't change into a democracy in the 1800s. It is as much a republic as it was in 1776. The most you can argue is that a republic is somewhat of a variation of democracy. Perhaps you are confused because the meaning of republic is quite ambiguous and it is possible to be a republic and a democracy at the same time but they didn't suddenly decide to stop being a republic.

[mangamuscle]

From comments in this board it makes me think there is some undercurrent that wants to rewrite story saying "the USA was not meant as a democracy!". It can be argued just as well it was not a republic (look for the word republic in the declaration of independence or in the constitution and you will not find it). It worries me because it sounds like the preamble for the coup de etat Trump is planning, many people think the USA will be stronger if they get rid of this troublesome democracy (which they associate with the democrat party which they think is e-v-i-l) when in truth it will weaken the foundation of the country.

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

From comments in this board it makes me think there is some undercurrent that wants to rewrite story saying "the USA was not meant as a democracy!". It can be argued just as well it was not a republic (look for the word republic in the declaration of independence or in the constitution and you will not find it). It worries me because it sounds like the preamble for the coup de etat Trump is planning, many people think the USA will be stronger if they get rid of this troublesome democracy (which they associate with the democrat party which they think is e-v-i-l) when in truth it will weaken the foundation of the country.

Not at all, the truth it was not meant to be a democracy, a democracy is something that is ruled by the many, a republic is ruled by the few who act as the voice of the many. Essentially how it was in the star wars movies for the prequals. Essentially it comes down to this in a democracy if someone was to commit murder the people would have to say if he is hanged for the crime with a vote by the townspeople. In a republic it's a select few chose at random who decide. The people didn't get to vote on the president until the 1800's only the electoral college. There was never supposed to be a popular vote that code influence how a state would vote, the people would only vote on their state representatives and senators who would act in the benefit of their state. And a president was chosen out of those people who were of outstanding moral fiber. It was never meant to be how it is now. If it was still a republic Trump and Hillary would never have been candidates in the 2016 elections

[Ithekro]

The United States of America is defined as a Federal Republic.

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

The United States of America is defined as a Federal Republic.

That may be what it is defined that is not what it is. Ask anyone and they will call it a democratic government

People don't seem to get what I am saying I am not saying that democracy is a bad thing. But I will say that they fail and that is mainly do to one reason and that is people. People don't vote for a candidate good for everyone they vote for the guy who would benefit them, or atleast say things that will benefit them during election year. That is why Trump won he said things that the silent majority believed benefits them that the country as a whole, doesn't matter if he is a morally repugnant individual.

[Eisdrache]

Originally Posted by shadow1296

But I will say that they fail and that is mainly do to one reason and that is people.

Let's not ignore the majority of democracies that did in fact not fail despite being filled with people.

Originally Posted by shadow1296

That may be what it is defined that is not what it is. Ask anyone and they will call it a democratic government

You can be a republic while having a democratic government, these things are not exclusive.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by shadow1296

That may be what it is defined that is not what it is. Ask anyone and they will call it a democratic government

There are too many "checks and balances" to call the United States a pure democracy. The Electoral College is an especially relevant example. So was the creation of a Senate whose members were to be chosen by state legislatures (replaced with direct elections in 1913). And the franchise was largely limited to white men of means, which in practice meant early America was largely governed by wealthy landowners and commercial interests. Estimates place turnout at well under 10% of the populace in 1790.

The Founders, Madison in particular, feared that democracy could easily result in directly-elected "tyrants." "A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions." (Federalist 51)

Anyone actually interested in these issues should read Robert Dahl's short, insightful essay A Preface to Democratic Theory where he contrasts "Madisonian" and "populist" theories of democratic governance.

We're now in the midst of a great experiment to see whether the Constitution and our institutions of government will, in fact, survive the wannabe tyrant sitting in the Oval Office.

[Toukairin]

Slightly off-topic, but here is a read from The Atlantic about what Justin Trudeau said about the recent tariffs a few days ago.

"In closing, I want to be very clear about one thing: Americans remain our partners, friends, and allies. This is not about the American people. We have to believe that at some point their common sense will prevail,” he said in the type of language that successive U.S. administrations have used to describe recalcitrant regimes such as Iran. “But we see no sign of that in this action today by the U.S. administration.”

You know that's pretty insulting already when a long-time ally treats you like some enemy with that kind of diplomatic language. Trump should feel lucky that no one among the US allies has called him into more demeaning terms because that is what he actually deserves.

Meanwhile, Trump pulled the following replies out of his ass, one of them on Twitter:

The United States has been taken advantage of for many decades on trade. Those days are over. Earlier today, this message was conveyed to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada: The United States will agree to a fair deal, or there will be no deal at all.

Canada has treated our Agricultural business and Farmers very poorly for a very long period of time. Highly restrictive on Trade! They must open their markets and take down their trade barriers! They report a really high surplus on trade with us. Do Timber & Lumber in U.S.?

I wonder how many times he ever got slapped in the face in his pathetic life. He would have needed a lot in order to not become the (insert Samantha Bee's insult here) he has become.

[Archon_Wing]

"Conservatives" love the free market....

Until it doesn't work in their favor I guess.

Edit: Also I mean, of course the United States was not founded as a Democracy when only white men could vote. But I hope that's not what people are getting at. Of course, relative to its time, it was very democratic in a time when Kings were a thing. Not to mention this whole excessive fear of the people were written by the Federalists, who wanted big government. And thus set the ongoing precedent of the government arbitrarily increasing its own power. I mean the "muh states rights" folks get that the country is run by the states okay. But who elects the state government again? Something is missing here.

The US is both a Democracy and a Republic. And honestly, the only time I've ever heard of anyone saying Democracy inevitably leading to tyranny is by people like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Hermann_Hoppe

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

"Conservatives" love the free market....

Until it doesn't work in their favor I guess.

The thing is that conservatives used to be capitalists, which is about giving equal opportunities to all. But now that fox nyus preaches to them 24/7, the message is about corporatism which is ironic because that is the reason so many people left europe two centuries ago to come to the usa, all the special interests groups end up suffocating society and stifling progress.

That is the only reason I can think for conservatives not being mad at the tax cuts for the 1% the repubs pushed thru congress.

[Archon_Wing]

Or the illusion of equal opportunity.

It's a different variant of the kool-aid in order to propagate the just world fallacy. It's why the poor supported slavery in the South despite not benefiting from it at all. It created a hierarchy and a twisted sense of justice in which they thought if they earned the favored of God properly, they'd be up there too.

It's a bunch of lies, but it's pretty efficient. Left-leaning people will see this and try to get government to stop big business only to (not) realize they're one and the same now, and the right subscribes to Corporatism as being just. Ultimately it just comes down to who got less bought out I guess though the GOP isn't even trying at this point.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

The US is both a Democracy and a Republic.

Yes, it uses democratic institutions to elect a republican government.

And honestly, the only time I've ever heard of anyone saying Democracy inevitably leading to tyranny is by people like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Hermann_Hoppe

Madison is no libertarian like him. Madison believed we needed strong governmental institutions to manage the inevitable political conflicts that would arise in the years ahead. He also doesn't argue that democracy inevitably leads to tyranny, only that populist tyrants might arise. (Remember the referents for all these men are George III and Greco-Roman history.) To protect the state against such a threat, Madison proposed strong institutions and competing multiple centers of power as represented by the Branches.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Madison is no libertarian like him. Madison believed we needed strong governmental institutions to manage the inevitable political conflicts that would arise in the years ahead. He also doesn't argue that democracy inevitably leads to tyranny, only that populist tyrants might arise. (Remember the referents for all these men are George III and Greco-Roman history.) To protect the state against such a threat, Madison proposed strong institutions and competing multiple centers of power as represented by the Branches.

Indeed, that's why these are 2 very separate viewpoints. They argued that the majority could oppress a minority and thus to guarantee people fundamental human rights that can't be taken away (such as the freedom of speech) was important.

The likes of Hoppe are more of the "fascist in all but name" kind try to pass themselves off as Libertarian (and are certainly not but that's a common alt-right thing) because it's socially unacceptable to call oneself a fascist. But when it comes to Democracy = Tyranny, the later is what I think of when it comes to modern discourse. Those that literally want to reset back to the 18th century when racial pseudoscience and hierarchy was a thing. And that's what the Alt-Right is about.

It's some disturbing shit; try looking up "Physical Removal" where people actually try to argue fascism is the way to liberty. (????) Some even claim to be Anarchist, which is absolutely contradictory nonsense. But that's the alt-right for you.

To me, if someone proposes anything besides Democracy (or I guess anarchy but that's kinda idealistic) then it's really just a dog whistle for authoritarianism.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

it's socially unacceptable to call oneself a fascist.

Never fear, if next november the democrats manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, you can bet fascism will join racism as another -ism that has abandoned the fringes of society to join the mainstream, with gas chambers and election postponing becoming the new normal.

[Ithekro]

We will let you know after the 2020 election, which will be after the Olympics, so we can see what kind of fallout sports in Japan is has first for Korea.