[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Ep. 4 Alliance of the golden witch

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Wafflemania

this is just some stupid theory but what if

Spoiler for kyrie:

Kyrie's miscarrage acually gave birth to Meta-battler???? O.o. lol

I think you broke my brain :C Thank you for that <3

[Jan-Poo]

Spoiler for kyrie:

I suppose you are assuming that the meta-battler isn't a Battler clone, and we only see him as such because it's the metaworld. If not it would be really impossible! I've never heard of twins being born by different mothers @_@

Supposing this is the case we'd have to question why is that Kyrie's son believes to be Battler and retains some (at the very least) of Battler's memories, while losing his own memories.

Also why he isn't dead as he was supposed to be, and why exactly he's playing in place of Battler °°;

[Wafflemania]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Spoiler for kyrie:

I suppose you are assuming that the meta-battler isn't a Battler clone, and we only see him as such because it's the metaworld. If not it would be really impossible! I've never heard of twins being born by different mothers @_@

Supposing this is the case we'd have to question why is that Kyrie's son believes to be Battler and retains some (at the very least) of Battler's memories, while losing his own memories.

Also why he isn't dead as he was supposed to be, and why exactly he's playing in place of Battler °°;

lol yeah i didn't really think about it much.... if im right im going to laugh....or cry...

but i have ANOTHER theory!

Spoiler for end of episode 3/early ep 4:

I know you guys have talked about this (i think)but if Nanjo said he had a sick grandchild in episode 3, then is that ange? and then....Kyrie's...Dad..? O.o weird lol but that could be it unless her parents got divorced...who knows? who is kyrie's mom anyways?

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Wafflemania

lol yeah i didn't really think about it much.... if im right im going to laugh....or cry...

but i have ANOTHER theory!

Spoiler for end of episode 3/early ep 4:

I know you guys have talked about this (i think)but if Nanjo said he had a sick grandchild in episode 3, then is that ange? and then....Kyrie's...Dad..? O.o weird lol but that could be it unless her parents got divorced...who knows? who is kyrie's mom anyways?

Spoiler for Reply, very minor EP 4:

No. Nanjo said he had a sick grandson. Kyrie's mother and father aren't seen in EP 4, but Ange comments on how the Sumadera family is a matriarch family (a woman is the head, opposed to the Ushiromiya male ran family) and that Kyrie was originally suppose to be the head until she ran off with Rudolf and joined the Ushiromiya family. So Kyrie's mother in 1986 is the Head of the Sumadera family (either her or Kasumi).

Ange also mentions how her grandfather, Kyrie's father, was very distant from the family and wasn't really given much attention by Kyrie's mother or the Sumadera family in general, most likely since Kyrie and him had a good relation. Ange also says that during the murders she was with him the entire time in his home, since she got sick.

[Jan-Poo]

Spoiler for nanjo episode3:

I personally don't see why the fact that Nanjo has a sick grandchild should be suspicious. I mean, it's a sad thing but it is not that rare. And if this was some kind of secret he certainly wouldn't have told us. Rather than that I wonder why he even mentions that. He retired from his position of head of the hospital of niijima and left it to his son and he spend time playing chess with Kinzo. How exactly his being alive has anything to do with his grandson sickness? Unless he's being generously rewarded for seeing his medical counseling being ignored, and such "reward" is needed to cover medical expenses... but with a father (or uncle) who's the head of an hospital is that even a problem for that child? °°

Anyway even if we assume that the sick grandson is a reason for Nanjo to become a murderer, we should not forget that we are talking about several billion of yens, sick grandson or not, such sum of money is reason enough to suspect everyone.

[k//eternal]

Originally Posted by vorpal83

Is it me or is there no real difference between black and white magic?

Spoiler for magic in ep4:

Both tend to end in large numbers of ppl getting killed, or 1 person getting killed many many times....

I had a conversation earlier in which I described Umineko's magic as being like the Force in Star Wars. It's not whether you use a lightsaber, it's what you use it for.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by k//eternal

I had a conversation earlier in which I described Umineko's magic as being like the Force in Star Wars. It's not whether you use a lightsaber, it's what you use it for.

...so...

Is Battler Luke Skywalker or Han Solo? :U -shot-

[izmosmolnar]

There's something bugging me for a while. (I doubt it's going to be answered later in ep4, however if there is a resolve for that mystery there, just say so and don't spoil me please )

Spoiler for ange's relation to the family:

Kinzo says for investing bilions of money, in exchange he received a single child from each of his child. Why single? What about Ange?
Even Rudolf doesn't says anything about her when praising Battler.

It's definitely not the first instance that happened (no setting at the table, "all the cousins are here" by Battler etc.), but it makes me actually think that, we have never seen it confirmed by anyone on the gameboard, that Ange is a familymember. We've only seen her sibling status acknowledged in the "banquett" (my mistake, not even there!) and the metaworld, but never ever she was referred by anyone when the subject was about children. (I can't remember did Rudolf said to Battler to look after his daughter in episode1, when he was about to tell something to him before the first twilight?)

However the problem is that as far as I know, the family conferences in the past 6 years she was the one substituting Battler, since it was stated somewhere there was 18 people in all (or most?) the conferences. But then what about Nanjo anyway? When did he move to the island? Definitely sooner than 6 years since Battler doesn't know him.
Anyway I started to suspect Ange, that her "obsession" about being Battler's sister might be some sort of mild delusion. That would also explain why Battler never said "Oh you are my sister Ange". Something was on the top his tongue indeed when she was introduced, but I reckon we were just led to believe that he knows her as his sister.

[Klashikari]

1) Ange is confirmed as a family member in episode 1. (by Eva, Hideyoshi and Kyrie).

2) I'm pretty sure the whole stuff is about those who are qualified to be the head: as shown in episode 3 and 4, Ange is, as the last survivor of the Ushiromiya family. However, the whole point was "right here, right now". On rokkenjima at the very moment, Ange is nowhere and arguably the least possible candidate, not only for the absence, but also due to the age.

Furthermore, if you think about it, Ange is the daughter born from a second marriage, which might be a problem to mention, considering how Kinzo is VERY old fashioned.

Finally, it isn't a mystery: more facts are stated around the end of Episode 4 so.

[izmosmolnar]

That might be true. It isn't such a mystery, but I don't really know what to think about it. Well I'm going to read about it later in ep4 then anyway.
I still find the references on her far too rare though (I can't even remember the ones you mentioned by those people), and her absence is kinda glaring in other examples.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

That glitch was present due to the new Onscripter and has been found already. But since we didn't want to delay the release for this minor issue, we prefered to plan a fix later (especially when Mion will have some free time).

You can use mousewheel, but you really have to be much slower than usual.

@marion: I've no idea when exactly you started reading, but you are so fast it is scary...

I started about four hours ago.

Spoiler for EP 4 Spoilers:

I just got through seeing Kyrie being killed. How the hell she avoided that many shots from the Siestas is really odd, considering it's an attack that apparently can't be missed :U

:C But man, is the pacing of this episode hectic. Seriously it literally jumps around like mad. Not the first time it happened in Umineko, but for it go about so much is insane.

Spoiler for more EP 4 spoilers:

I hate how everyone is telling Battler to believe in witches now though. Seriously, when Kyrie told him to believe I just wanted to headdesk because out of all the adults I never expected Kyrie to start believing in magic and witches </3

[Klashikari]

1) Once you read her "execute", you will understand

2) that is the very reason why episode 4 was made like this: to make things even more complicated as Battler has ACTUAL feedback from the adults.
So far, we had evasive clues etc, while we, as omnipotent readers, could see all Beato's bullshit magic.
Now, Ryukishi just dropped a bombshell and it makes even more complicated to understand how the culprit(s) made the adults believe in it.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

1) Once you read her "execute", you will understand

2) that is the very reason why episode 4 was made like this: to make things even more complicated as Battler has ACTUAL feedback from the adults.
So far, we had evasive clues etc, while we, as omnipotent readers, could see all Beato's bullshit magic.
Now, Ryukishi just dropped a bombshell and it makes even more complicated to understand how the culprit(s) made the adults believe in it.

T___T

Spoiler for EP 4 spoilers, reply:

Well Kyrie was really frantic at that time. Even in the prison she was questioning whether to believe or not. She could have believed that she saw magic and stuff, considering the state of confusion she was in.

I don't even know anymore. Dammit Ryukushi :C </3333

[izmosmolnar]

Spoiler for around the second twilightish:

Virgilia:

The number of loser flags amplify the opponent's power level.

VEGETA, WHAT'S THE SCOUTER SAYS ABOUT HIS POWER LEVEL? OVER 9000??!!!

Seriously for like the past hour or so, I feel like I'm reading some semi-serious action story, instead of a thriller-murder-mistery I'm familiar with throughout the past episodes.
George Aikido-ing down a demon and 3 goat-servants (and earlier in ep2 the same goatservants were much more deadlier against bladed Kanon); Jessica beating Ronove; and Krauss boxing against Virgilia.
Just what the capitalized F*CK is going here?

Seriously I'm longing already for the metaworld. So far in the whole episode 4, the metaworld didn't really had much of a significance, as opposed to the previous two episode.

edit
now it's indeed over 9000...

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Marion

T___T

Spoiler for EP 4 spoilers, reply:

Well Kyrie was really frantic at that time. Even in the prison she was questioning whether to believe or not. She could have believed that she saw magic and stuff, considering the state of confusion she was in.

I don't even know anymore. Dammit Ryukushi :C </3333

Spoiler:

Absolutely logical with the things she has witnessed...Kyrie isn't an idiot and she won't usually believe in the supernatural but with so much undeniable batshit happening to her (like Kanon cutting iron bars and fat ass goat heads with inhuman strength, not to mention those creepy characters appearing in the dinning room and smashing everyone in a blink of an eye).

I wonder if the drug used to knock them out is still making her mind hazy because saying that a golden thread is coming through the keyhole and after her life is really a tough one to beat when she told this directly to Battler...

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by izmosmolnar

Spoiler for around the second twilightish:

Virgilia:

VEGETA, WHAT'S THE SCOUTER SAYS ABOUT HIS POWER LEVEL? OVER 9000??!!!

Seriously for like the past hour or so, I feel like I'm reading some semi-serious action story, instead of a thriller-murder-mistery I'm familiar with in the past episodes. George Aikido-ing down a demon and 3 goat-servants (and earlier in ep2 the same goatservants were much more deadlier against bladed Kanon); Jessica beating Ronove; and Krauss boxing against Virgilia.
Just what the capitalized F*CK is going here?
Seriously I'm longing already for the metaworld. So far in the whole episode 4, the metaworld didn't really had much of a significance, as opposed to the previous two episode.

Don't worry, the Meta World will just start to be mindblowing towards the end. But episode 4 was certainly split into much more obvious block:
flashbacks/flashforwards between Ange and Maria - Batshit present extravaganza - showtime in the meta world.

[Elvin]

It's here!! It's here!!! Xo

[Marion]

Whoo, finished EP 4.

Spoiler for EP 4 Tea Party:

Now it's time for the red text vs blue text tea party of doom! (aka: the only part of this game I didn't spoil myself completely with)

Question though:

Spoiler for EP 4 ending:

Beatrice: "As long as you play here, the Anges of countless worlds will live in isolation, and the same pain of her final moments just now will be forced upon her, diluted over a period of more than a decade."

Why only a decade? Does this mean that Ange's life always ends in 1998, after every game then? Then again, adding Eva survival into the equation maybe that's why she didn't die until later.

[Klashikari]

Please use only Episode 4 thread. Translation thread doesn't serve this purpose anymore since the patch is now complete.

As for your question, that means Ange only live for more or less 11-19 years (wild guess though), probably because she is either killed by Kasumi or she kills herself. Surely enough, it is very likely that Ange would do many stupid stuff over the years after she is secluded in a lonely world.

And yes, the fact Eva is alive probably improved her chance to stay alive. Should the former wasn't, Ange would probably be abused by the Sumadera, as she is only 6 years old at that time.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Please use only Episode 4 thread. Translation thread doesn't serve this purpose anymore since the patch is now complete.

As for your question, that means Ange only live for more or less 11-19 years (wild guess though), probably because she is either killed by Kasumi or she kills herself. Surely enough, it is very likely that Ange would do many stupid stuff over the years after she is secluded in a lonely world.

And yes, the fact Eva is alive probably improved her chance to stay alive. Should the former wasn't, Ange would probably be abused by the Sumadera, as she is only 6 years old at that time.

Ah I apologize.

Thanks for answering though~