AnimeSuki Forums

Ithekro · 2012-03-31, 13:33

Maybe the flagship is the only one with enough power to warrent the configuration. All the other ships explode too easily at even running they won't escape one ot two hits in most instances. The Flagship, being larger, can survive a few hits, and make its escape.

But the premise is incorrect. Even with the fins the Flagship (Kirishima) can fire more guns forward than aft. The Flagship does have one dedicated aft turret (Cruiser Murasame also has an aft turret), and another that can fire in all directions in a flat plain. But the ship can fire three turrets forward...or at least seven of the barrels of those three turrets plus the bow gun. It can only fire six barrels aft.

However, Earth ships are still based on old naval lines. Broadside actions and line combat. With the bow guns in both Earth and Gamilon forcs each can choose it the battle will be fought in "line abreast" or "line astern" formations. Line abreast would mean forward firepower and advancing as a line. Line astern would mean a broadside action and a more turning to try to cross the other sides lines so one could engage a single ship with a large section of your line.

Line Abreast is how fights tend of go in Legend of the Galactic Heroes. It is also the prefered tactic of the later EDF when using Wave Motion Guns.

Line Astern seems to be the tactic used for the Battle at Pluto and was used in the likes of most naval fleet actions historically.

Though with the Earth tech as it is...one wonders how long they have been at war with the Gamilons? The Planet Bombing has been going on for at least five years (though I tend to think eight years...they might have changed that), but if these designs...which are seem to be based on Gamilon tech, are about 30 years old, the war is a fair bit older.

August138 · 2012-03-31, 16:23

Just a note of interest (POSSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD): In the new version, there is a conscious reason why the UNCN are taking on the Gamilas at Pluto en masse. It is a tactical diversion. Some of the ships, such as the Murasame, were built in 2170 (the Kirishima in 2171), as part of a colonial war. Gamilas started bombing in 2191 in the new timeline. The ships' operating systems were upgraded, as well as armor and weapons, but they were no match for the Gamilas' technology.

Ithekro · 2012-03-31, 16:51

Hmmmm. That might explain why their is one crew member listed as being from Mars (Arcadia City?)

I recall they started the bombing in or about 2191 in the old timeline as well when Kodai was a kid. (Only the Live Action film changed it for whatever reason to five years which keeps getting passed around.)

One would imagine they would have had better ships (newer than the 2170s) at some point to fight Gamilas, but so far we have no knowledge of that. Only that these ships were the last defense Earth had (that we are aware of). At least back in 1974.

Roger Rambo · 2012-03-31, 17:31

Which crew member is the Martian?

Ithekro · 2012-03-31, 17:47

Arika Yamamoto is listed as being from Mars in her profile.

The Wikipedia entry on Space Battleship Yamato characters has updated this year to include tiny flags from the prefecute each person comes from, if know. (The 1974 male version of Yamamoto has no prefecute listed as that is a new thing.)

As a side note, I didn't know Mars had a semi-official flag for its not yet existant state. A tri-color, red, green, blue. Darkish muddy colors rather than bright primary color though.

GundamFan0083 · 2012-03-31, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by August138

At the top left, we have the Hyzeraad-class Dreadnaught, which is an all-new Gamilas ship designed by Yutaka Izubuchi (who upgraded and designed all of the new Gamilas ships). Next, we have the Gaiperion-class Carrier (notice, four decks instead of three in the original series). Then, we have the Polmeria-class Heavy Attack Carrier. Next, is the DWG229 Merakan Combat Attack Plane. Lastly, there's the Gaideroul-class Battleship. (Of course, on the right is Leader Dessler and General Domel.)

On the left, we have the Destria-class Heavy Cruiser, the Kelcapia High-Speed Cruiser, and the Kuripitera-class Destroyer.

On the right is a size-comparison chart (duh). From top to bottom: Yamato, Gaideroul, Destria, Kelcapia, Kuripitera, Kirishima, Murasame, and Yukikaze.

Images courtesy of the Official Star Blazers Website. Hope this helps!

Thank you for the images, descriptions, and class names.
I hadn't seen the size comparison chart yet.
Very nice.

The quad deck carrier reminds me of the Uraga class of escort carriers from Macross.

August138 · 2012-03-31, 21:11

Yes, the new Akira Yamamoto was born in Arcadia City, an Earth Colony on Mars. I believe it was totally destroyed by the Gamilas by the time the new series opens. But, I'm sure that she'll have a flashback in the new series to explain all of that.

BTW, I saw the first ten minutes — from the Bandai Channel — and it's pretty damned awesome. Not all of the ship animation is CGI, some of it is hand-drawn, which the mechanical animator talks about in a translated interview to be published on the Official Star Blazers Website on April 3rd!

GundamFan0083 · 2012-03-31, 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by August138

Yes, the new Akira Yamamoto was born in Arcadia City, an Earth Colony on Mars. I believe it was totally destroyed by the Gamilas by the time the new series opens. But, I'm sure that she'll have a flashback in the new series to explain all of that.

BTW, I saw the first ten minutes — from the Bandai Channel — and it's pretty damned awesome. Not all of the ship animation is CGI, some of it is hand-drawn, which the mechanical animator talks about in a translated interview to be published on the Official Star Blazers Website on April 3rd!

Arcadia city?
Sweet.

Thank's for the update.
I'm going over to Bandai's Channel to check it out.

Roger Rambo · 2012-03-31, 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

Arcadia city?
Sweet.

Thank's for the update.
I'm going over to Bandai's Channel to check it out.

Is there a link to the Bandai channel?

GundamFan0083 · 2012-03-31, 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Is there a link to the Bandai channel?

http://www.b-ch.com/contents/feat_yamato2199/

Service is not available in your country?

Ithekro · 2012-04-01, 03:01

Yeah, I checked that out right after they announced it on the official site. No go in USA.

(But if you search I bet you can find it

)

.....and yes....it is awesome.

Last Sinner · 2012-04-01, 06:15

Daisuke Ono voicing Kodai...that is brilliant. Hard to think of a better match.

Ithekro · 2012-04-01, 13:35

It was a nice battle. While you don't really see the Earth ships being all that effective, they keep fighting.
(Music and sound effects wer good too. Just enough of the old mixed in to make it feel right. And the important scenes keep their old music queues. The new music was good too. I liked the pre-battle music)

And Yukikaze is either special, or just shows how its done. I count at least two, probably more kills from that one ship. Got to get in close, Captain.

I understand all the parts and lines that were in the 1974 version, and can figure out pieces of the rest. But I don't know all details.

The graphical display of the enemy numbers was interesting. I think they had given the numbers in the original, but only showed one ship type for the entire Gamilon fleet by then.

1 battleship
7 heavy cruisers
22 cruisers
88+ destroyers (the numbers looked like they were still going up and didn't catch if they said a final number)

I did not get a count of how large the Earth Fleet was. Only that they were more than likely outnumbered. And out classed.

But the new details are nice. Seeing the Flaship fire more than one shot is really good. Also using some of those other weapons...and showing heavy use of thrusters and some "real science" from time to time. Zero-g on Earth ships. Lots of foot holds and the like.

(In 1974, the Flagship fired only one turret at the Gamilons and it bounced off...it was hit and never fired another shot that we saw the rest of the battle. Aside from Yukikaze, I don't recall any other Earth ships firing their weapons in the 1974 version of the fight.)

August138 · 2012-04-01, 14:37

For those who want to see the first ten minutes, an enterprising fan has uploaded the 10 minute preview on YouTube. Watch now, before it gets pulled down!
http://youtu.be/QreLPNsd1zw

Ithekro: Here's a comparison video going shot-for-shot with the 1974 Battle at Pluto vs. the 2012 version (YAMATO: 2199 clips are from the 3:45 Promo Video):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AerBhncf95E

Ithekro · 2012-04-01, 15:01

Yes, I've seen that one. In a thread about modern vs. 80's character designs I showed the differences between the Second Trailer and the first 8 or so minutes of the 1974 series. To show the difference and yet similarity from a 1970s production and a 2012 production if the producers want to make things look like that still.

I was hoping to find a version that had the whole Battle at Pluto (1974 version) but the first part of the video only goes to the scene with Yukikaze destroying a Gamilus warship with torpedoes. Because they still fit together well side by side from what I can tell.

Roger Rambo · 2012-04-01, 15:35

I haven't seen the first ep of Yamato in a long time but...

-I'm noticing the humans have what looks like EVA teams moving outside the ship hulls, probably for emergency repair work. A dicey prospect when you've got gamilon beam cannons spraying your ships.

-The EDF bridges are looking much more compact, as you would be expecting in an enclosed environment.

-Yuki is definitely a comm expert now, attached to UNCF head qaurters. This does give the early events in the series are more strategic feel.

-Kodai and his buddy are now less stationed on a base on mars, so much as a prefabbed air tight hovel that was air dropped into a concealed position in a wrecked building with a parked space craft. It kinda feels like this is a rather expendable observation post (with expendable trainees) that's meant to be abandoned if the Gamilon so much as look at it wrong.

-I'm guessing that song the crew members on the torpedo destroyer are singing is some variation of "It's a good day to die!"

August138 · 2012-04-01, 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

-I'm guessing that song the crew members on the torpedo destroyer are singing is some variation of "It's a good day to die!"

Yeah. It's the Japanese Cosmo Navy March. Akin to singing the USMC's "Marines' Hymn" as one goes into the jaws of death.

I found it to be extremely moving. Then again, that manly-heroic-marching-off-to-die-in-battle stuff always gets me.

Roger Rambo · 2012-04-01, 16:54

Hey August138, just so you know I'm not Ithekro

Certainly would be interesting to see what the lyrics to that was.

YF19EX · 2012-04-01, 19:32

Now this is how a remake is done. Original score, sound effects etc with has a modern feel and detail needed in a space opera lost in most modern anime. The ships feel real, utilitarian, the characters not over enthusiastic or boasting.

Endless Soul · 2012-04-01, 19:34

I'm greatly looking forward to this.

Endless "Excited" Soul

2012-03-31, 13:33	Link #161
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Maybe the flagship is the only one with enough power to warrent the configuration. All the other ships explode too easily at even running they won't escape one ot two hits in most instances. The Flagship, being larger, can survive a few hits, and make its escape. But the premise is incorrect. Even with the fins the Flagship (Kirishima) can fire more guns forward than aft. The Flagship does have one dedicated aft turret (Cruiser Murasame also has an aft turret), and another that can fire in all directions in a flat plain. But the ship can fire three turrets forward...or at least seven of the barrels of those three turrets plus the bow gun. It can only fire six barrels aft. However, Earth ships are still based on old naval lines. Broadside actions and line combat. With the bow guns in both Earth and Gamilon forcs each can choose it the battle will be fought in "line abreast" or "line astern" formations. Line abreast would mean forward firepower and advancing as a line. Line astern would mean a broadside action and a more turning to try to cross the other sides lines so one could engage a single ship with a large section of your line. Line Abreast is how fights tend of go in Legend of the Galactic Heroes. It is also the prefered tactic of the later EDF when using Wave Motion Guns. Line Astern seems to be the tactic used for the Battle at Pluto and was used in the likes of most naval fleet actions historically. Though with the Earth tech as it is...one wonders how long they have been at war with the Gamilons? The Planet Bombing has been going on for at least five years (though I tend to think eight years...they might have changed that), but if these designs...which are seem to be based on Gamilon tech, are about 30 years old, the war is a fair bit older. __________________ Last edited by Ithekro; 2012-03-31 at 14:04. Reason: Age of the War in this version of the show, question.

2012-03-31, 16:23	Link #162
August138 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: San Francisco, California	Just a note of interest (POSSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD): In the new version, there is a conscious reason why the UNCN are taking on the Gamilas at Pluto en masse. It is a tactical diversion. Some of the ships, such as the Murasame, were built in 2170 (the Kirishima in 2171), as part of a colonial war. Gamilas started bombing in 2191 in the new timeline. The ships' operating systems were upgraded, as well as armor and weapons, but they were no match for the Gamilas' technology. __________________ August Ragone "The Good, The Bad, and Godzilla"

2012-03-31, 16:51	Link #163
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Hmmmm. That might explain why their is one crew member listed as being from Mars (Arcadia City?) I recall they started the bombing in or about 2191 in the old timeline as well when Kodai was a kid. (Only the Live Action film changed it for whatever reason to five years which keeps getting passed around.) One would imagine they would have had better ships (newer than the 2170s) at some point to fight Gamilas, but so far we have no knowledge of that. Only that these ships were the last defense Earth had (that we are aware of). At least back in 1974. __________________

2012-03-31, 17:31	Link #164
Roger Rambo Sensei, aishite imasu Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome	Which crew member is the Martian? __________________ DEEP WITHIN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE WHERE GENESTEALERS ARE MADE OF F***ING RUBBER!

2012-03-31, 17:47	Link #165
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Arika Yamamoto is listed as being from Mars in her profile. The Wikipedia entry on Space Battleship Yamato characters has updated this year to include tiny flags from the prefecute each person comes from, if know. (The 1974 male version of Yamamoto has no prefecute listed as that is a new thing.) As a side note, I didn't know Mars had a semi-official flag for its not yet existant state. A tri-color, red, green, blue. Darkish muddy colors rather than bright primary color though. __________________

2012-03-31, 21:11	Link #167
August138 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: San Francisco, California	Yes, the new Akira Yamamoto was born in Arcadia City, an Earth Colony on Mars. I believe it was totally destroyed by the Gamilas by the time the new series opens. But, I'm sure that she'll have a flashback in the new series to explain all of that. BTW, I saw the first ten minutes — from the Bandai Channel — and it's pretty damned awesome. Not all of the ship animation is CGI, some of it is hand-drawn, which the mechanical animator talks about in a translated interview to be published on the Official Star Blazers Website on April 3rd! __________________ August Ragone "The Good, The Bad, and Godzilla"

2012-04-01, 03:01	Link #171
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Yeah, I checked that out right after they announced it on the official site. No go in USA. (But if you search I bet you can find it ) .....and yes....it is awesome. __________________ Last edited by Ithekro; 2012-04-01 at 04:43. Reason: It is out there

2012-04-01, 06:15	Link #172
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	Daisuke Ono voicing Kodai...that is brilliant. Hard to think of a better match. __________________

2012-04-01, 13:35	Link #173
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	It was a nice battle. While you don't really see the Earth ships being all that effective, they keep fighting. (Music and sound effects wer good too. Just enough of the old mixed in to make it feel right. And the important scenes keep their old music queues. The new music was good too. I liked the pre-battle music) And Yukikaze is either special, or just shows how its done. I count at least two, probably more kills from that one ship. Got to get in close, Captain. I understand all the parts and lines that were in the 1974 version, and can figure out pieces of the rest. But I don't know all details. The graphical display of the enemy numbers was interesting. I think they had given the numbers in the original, but only showed one ship type for the entire Gamilon fleet by then. 1 battleship 7 heavy cruisers 22 cruisers 88+ destroyers (the numbers looked like they were still going up and didn't catch if they said a final number) I did not get a count of how large the Earth Fleet was. Only that they were more than likely outnumbered. And out classed. But the new details are nice. Seeing the Flaship fire more than one shot is really good. Also using some of those other weapons...and showing heavy use of thrusters and some "real science" from time to time. Zero-g on Earth ships. Lots of foot holds and the like. (In 1974, the Flagship fired only one turret at the Gamilons and it bounced off...it was hit and never fired another shot that we saw the rest of the battle. Aside from Yukikaze, I don't recall any other Earth ships firing their weapons in the 1974 version of the fight.) __________________ Last edited by Ithekro; 2012-04-01 at 14:17.

2012-04-01, 14:37	Link #174
August138 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: San Francisco, California	For those who want to see the first ten minutes, an enterprising fan has uploaded the 10 minute preview on YouTube. Watch now, before it gets pulled down! http://youtu.be/QreLPNsd1zw Ithekro: Here's a comparison video going shot-for-shot with the 1974 Battle at Pluto vs. the 2012 version (YAMATO: 2199 clips are from the 3:45 Promo Video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AerBhncf95E __________________ August Ragone "The Good, The Bad, and Godzilla" Last edited by August138; 2012-04-01 at 14:48.

2012-04-01, 15:01	Link #175
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Yes, I've seen that one. In a thread about modern vs. 80's character designs I showed the differences between the Second Trailer and the first 8 or so minutes of the 1974 series. To show the difference and yet similarity from a 1970s production and a 2012 production if the producers want to make things look like that still. I was hoping to find a version that had the whole Battle at Pluto (1974 version) but the first part of the video only goes to the scene with Yukikaze destroying a Gamilus warship with torpedoes. Because they still fit together well side by side from what I can tell. __________________

2012-04-01, 15:35	Link #176
Roger Rambo Sensei, aishite imasu Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome	I haven't seen the first ep of Yamato in a long time but... -I'm noticing the humans have what looks like EVA teams moving outside the ship hulls, probably for emergency repair work. A dicey prospect when you've got gamilon beam cannons spraying your ships. -The EDF bridges are looking much more compact, as you would be expecting in an enclosed environment. -Yuki is definitely a comm expert now, attached to UNCF head qaurters. This does give the early events in the series are more strategic feel. -Kodai and his buddy are now less stationed on a base on mars, so much as a prefabbed air tight hovel that was air dropped into a concealed position in a wrecked building with a parked space craft. It kinda feels like this is a rather expendable observation post (with expendable trainees) that's meant to be abandoned if the Gamilon so much as look at it wrong. -I'm guessing that song the crew members on the torpedo destroyer are singing is some variation of "It's a good day to die!" __________________ DEEP WITHIN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE WHERE GENESTEALERS ARE MADE OF F***ING RUBBER!

2012-04-01, 16:54	Link #178
Roger Rambo Sensei, aishite imasu Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome	Hey August138, just so you know I'm not Ithekro Certainly would be interesting to see what the lyrics to that was. __________________ DEEP WITHIN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE WHERE GENESTEALERS ARE MADE OF F***ING RUBBER!

2012-04-01, 19:32	Link #179
YF19EX Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Bad Chicken! Mess You Up!	Now this is how a remake is done. Original score, sound effects etc with has a modern feel and detail needed in a space opera lost in most modern anime. The ships feel real, utilitarian, the characters not over enthusiastic or boasting.

2012-04-01, 19:34	Link #180
Endless Soul Megane girl fan Join Date: May 2011 Location: Diagonally parked in a parallel universe. Age: 55	I'm greatly looking forward to this. Endless "Excited" Soul __________________ Signature by ganbaru