AnimeSuki Forums

Justin_Brett · 2012-02-02, 22:04

I found it kinda weird that they outsourced that they're apparently cool with companies doing that on its own. Wouldn't you want to keep something like that more within your organization instead of outsourcing it?

Kaijo · 2012-02-02, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

I found it kinda weird that they outsourced that they're apparently cool with companies doing that on its own. Wouldn't you want to keep something like that more within your organization instead of outsourcing it?

Generally speaking, governments don't have everything they'd need on their own to do their own tinkering on that advanced level. Corporations do. Also, if they did it in-house, there is supposedly greater transparency, or a greater chance of someone finding out. However, if you just outsource it to a corp, it only appears as a payment to a corp for services rendered.

Remember, the brain council outsourced to Jail for work that they couldn't do themselves in the first place. It makes sense that they outsourced to whoever produced Jail as well (it had to have taken considerable time and effort to get him close to the way they wanted).

If Tsuzuki is further expanding his universe, then Force is doing it logically by bringing in the companies and corporations next. We had the government, and now we have the commerce angle (and also tossing in people who work outside the Bureau's territory, showcasing what kind of rough-and-tumble universe it is out there).

Akiyoshi · 2012-02-02, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Could Vandin/Vandein be behind Jail? I'd like to see some link with StrikerS there; that would make things a bit interesting. It could be that they want to end the magic age and progress more towards technology, and at first used Jail for those ends.

Suddenly my old crazy theories about the "end of magic" subplot aren't that crazy isn't xD?

It sounds more like a side effect of the "new society" planned by Mr. Vandin, tough.

Justin_Brett · 2012-02-02, 22:50

Yeah, but most organizations on Earth and such aren't big enough to span multiple planets. Weapon development, I can maybe see, but they can't get a team of scientists together for some dedicated research on one of the main reasons you had that stuff built in the first place?

Then again, Shamal could make at least a partial cure for it on her own, so...

Akiyoshi · 2012-02-02, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaijo

If Tsuzuki is further expanding his universe, then Force is doing it logically by bringing in the companies and corporations next. We had the government, and now we have the commerce angle (and also tossing in people who work outside the Bureau's territory, showcasing what kind of rough-and-tumble universe it is out there).

Which show how naive and inexperienced our group of heroes are. Despite all their years fighting they only battled in relatively safe enviroments ignorant of the true perils that await them outside TSAB's jurisdiction. They're smallfries out there.

00-Raiser · 2012-02-02, 22:58

They've always been big fish in a small pond. But throw them in the ocean...

Key Board · 2012-02-02, 22:59

I think the conspiracy is more.. corporate rather than political

Vandine is mass producing gunblade and book dividers
Vandine is conducting experiments regarding Eclipse infection
They're also probably the ones that are doing experiments on the Strosek

The way I see it, Vandine is obviously trying to make its own Eclipse army. There's really no reason to make that many book and gunblades (and I assume they want to get rid of rogue elements like Huckebein eventually)

Caladwelch on the hand is using the TSAB to gather field data for their AEC equipment and Raptors. The implied intention is to phase out mages when the time comes. The fact that Caladwelch is also responsible for most of the anti-Eclipse equipment also give them significant influence. The only anti Eclipse weapon that is developed internally by the TSAB is Fate's 5th device so far.

I think that the two companies are either conspiring or have a mutual agreement.

When Vandine achieves the results it wants, all it has to do is contact a crime syndicate or someone with a grudge against the TSAB with an offer.

"Hey, I heard you wanted to secede from the TSAB. I'm offering you a weapon that will make their pesky mages useless. And oh, if you're threatened by their appearance, don't worry. I guarantee you that each of them has a kill-switch inside their heads should things go wrong."

Elsewhere Caladwelch will approach the TSAB or local worlds with a similar offer.

"Hey, I heard you have multiple cases of Eclipse incidents in several worlds. I'm sure you have some fine warriors prepared to fight, but are their numbers enough? We of Caladwelch would want to propose an offer. And oh, if you we'll give you a discount if you put up a good word on this to others"

Kaijo · 2012-02-02, 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Yeah, but most organizations on Earth and such aren't big enough to span many worlds. Weapon development, I can maybe see, but they can't get a team of scientists together for some dedicated research?

They could, but it would be an issue of properly hiding it. You increase the number of people in the Bureau working on something, and that increases the chance someone is gonna find out about it. It's easier to just have a few people at the top aware of it, and use some accounting trick to hide payments, while the corporation develops on some unsuspecting (or uninhabited) world.

A government rarely develops things themselves. It's easier to just buy a packaged solution. Even something like NASA's moonshot, was done with the government buying expertise and assembly work from companies. Weapon systems are bought from companies, something that has been shown to be similar to how the Bureau operates.

Key Board · 2012-02-02, 23:07

according to Vandine's CEO in the latest raw chapter

Spoiler:

I wouldn't take his words at face value, though

Rising Dragon · 2012-02-02, 23:20

Improvements in clean, safe energy should always be explored. But this is honestly not the first time energy's been brought up in the franchise: remember Precia's reactor?

Key Board · 2012-02-02, 23:21

I'm curious to what gives Eclipse super powers. where is that extra energy coming from?

Nightengale · 2012-02-02, 23:30

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2012/01/ff_solyndra/all/1

I feel so tempted to write up a Nanohaverse parody of the article above with the whole 'green, clean energy' theme that Tsuzuki so casually brings up every now and then.

Akiyoshi · 2012-02-02, 23:42

Who would think we would see the day when the Nanoha franchise releases a season with an enviromental message xD?

Key Board · 2012-02-02, 23:42

It's not as bad as Index where an entire city is powered by very few wind turbines

That's bullshit

Justin_Brett · 2012-02-03, 00:06

Quote:

They could, but it would be an issue of properly hiding it. You increase the number of people in the Bureau working on something, and that increases the chance someone is gonna find out about it. It's easier to just have a few people at the top aware of it, and use some accounting trick to hide payments, while the corporation develops on some unsuspecting (or uninhabited) world.

You wouldn't necessarily need to cover it up though, would you? It's not exactly damning information.

Koveras Alvane · 2012-02-03, 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Key Board

according to Vandine's CEO in the latest raw chapter

Spoiler:

Magical energy cannot be patented and copyrighted anymore. Kinda like the GMO food corporations insist that their products are somehow better than non-GMO ones but in reality, they just want the profits from licensing their patented crops to farmers.

If that is, indeed, Mr. VC's plan, I will take off my hat for Tsuzuki and forgive every blunder he made in Force so far.

Akiyoshi · 2012-02-03, 02:52

^ Must admit that will be quite the intelligent plot. Not exactly the kind of thing i love to watch, but intelligent nontheless xD

Nightengale · 2012-02-03, 02:53

Hmm...

Spoiler for based on Key Board's spoiler:

Akiyoshi · 2012-02-03, 03:00

^ that sounds like something from Fullmetal Alchemist xD

"Powered by a Forsaken Child" indeed xD

Keroko · 2012-02-03, 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Yeah, but most organizations on Earth and such aren't big enough to span multiple planets. Weapon development, I can maybe see, but they can't get a team of scientists together for some dedicated research on one of the main reasons you had that stuff built in the first place?

Then again, Shamal could make at least a partial cure for it on her own, so...

That's because humanity itself doesn't span beyond multiple planets in our world. We have a lot of global corporations, and you can be absolutely sure they would set up offices on other world the moment the first colonists establish themselves.

If there's money to be made, corporations will be there.

2012-02-02, 22:58	Link #5546
00-Raiser Burst Mode Author Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Windsor, Ontario Age: 37	They've always been big fish in a small pond. But throw them in the ocean... __________________

2012-02-02, 22:59	Link #5547
Key Board Carbon Join Date: Nov 2003	I think the conspiracy is more.. corporate rather than political Vandine is mass producing gunblade and book dividers Vandine is conducting experiments regarding Eclipse infection They're also probably the ones that are doing experiments on the Strosek The way I see it, Vandine is obviously trying to make its own Eclipse army. There's really no reason to make that many book and gunblades (and I assume they want to get rid of rogue elements like Huckebein eventually) Caladwelch on the hand is using the TSAB to gather field data for their AEC equipment and Raptors. The implied intention is to phase out mages when the time comes. The fact that Caladwelch is also responsible for most of the anti-Eclipse equipment also give them significant influence. The only anti Eclipse weapon that is developed internally by the TSAB is Fate's 5th device so far. I think that the two companies are either conspiring or have a mutual agreement. When Vandine achieves the results it wants, all it has to do is contact a crime syndicate or someone with a grudge against the TSAB with an offer. "Hey, I heard you wanted to secede from the TSAB. I'm offering you a weapon that will make their pesky mages useless. And oh, if you're threatened by their appearance, don't worry. I guarantee you that each of them has a kill-switch inside their heads should things go wrong." Elsewhere Caladwelch will approach the TSAB or local worlds with a similar offer. "Hey, I heard you have multiple cases of Eclipse incidents in several worlds. I'm sure you have some fine warriors prepared to fight, but are their numbers enough? We of Caladwelch would want to propose an offer. And oh, if you we'll give you a discount if you put up a good word on this to others" __________________ "Legitimacy is based on three things. First of all, the people who are asked to obey authority have to feel like they have a voice—that if they speak up, they will be heard. Second, the law has to be predictable. There has to be a reasonable expectation that the rules tomorrow are going to be roughly the same as the rules today. And third, the authority has to be fair. It can’t treat one group differently from another.” Malcolm Gladwell

2012-02-02, 23:07	Link #5549
Key Board Carbon Join Date: Nov 2003	according to Vandine's CEO in the latest raw chapter Spoiler: He thinks he can develop clean energy from Eclipse. So magic is not clean enough for him? I wouldn't take his words at face value, though __________________ "Legitimacy is based on three things. First of all, the people who are asked to obey authority have to feel like they have a voice—that if they speak up, they will be heard. Second, the law has to be predictable. There has to be a reasonable expectation that the rules tomorrow are going to be roughly the same as the rules today. And third, the authority has to be fair. It can’t treat one group differently from another.” Malcolm Gladwell Last edited by Key Board; 2012-02-02 at 23:21.

2012-02-02, 23:20	Link #5550
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	Improvements in clean, safe energy should always be explored. But this is honestly not the first time energy's been brought up in the franchise: remember Precia's reactor? __________________

2012-02-02, 23:21	Link #5551
Key Board Carbon Join Date: Nov 2003	I'm curious to what gives Eclipse super powers. where is that extra energy coming from? __________________ "Legitimacy is based on three things. First of all, the people who are asked to obey authority have to feel like they have a voice—that if they speak up, they will be heard. Second, the law has to be predictable. There has to be a reasonable expectation that the rules tomorrow are going to be roughly the same as the rules today. And third, the authority has to be fair. It can’t treat one group differently from another.” Malcolm Gladwell

2012-02-02, 22:04	Link #5541
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	I found it kinda weird that they outsourced that they're apparently cool with companies doing that on its own. Wouldn't you want to keep something like that more within your organization instead of outsourcing it?

2012-02-02, 22:50	Link #5544
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	Yeah, but most organizations on Earth and such aren't big enough to span multiple planets. Weapon development, I can maybe see, but they can't get a team of scientists together for some dedicated research on one of the main reasons you had that stuff built in the first place? Then again, Shamal could make at least a partial cure for it on her own, so...

2012-02-02, 23:30	Link #5552
Nightengale ~Night of Gales~ Author Join Date: Dec 2005	http://www.wired.com/magazine/2012/01/ff_solyndra/all/1 I feel so tempted to write up a Nanohaverse parody of the article above with the whole 'green, clean energy' theme that Tsuzuki so casually brings up every now and then. __________________ *Night~and~Gale: ~ The Final Mythology of the Man who Defied Destiny.* The sleeping lion shall awaken beyond the depths of time, crossing ten billion lights, come to Terra.

2012-02-02, 23:42	Link #5553
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	Who would think we would see the day when the Nanoha franchise releases a season with an enviromental message xD? __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2012-02-02, 23:42	Link #5554
Key Board Carbon Join Date: Nov 2003	It's not as bad as Index where an entire city is powered by very few wind turbines That's bullshit __________________ "Legitimacy is based on three things. First of all, the people who are asked to obey authority have to feel like they have a voice—that if they speak up, they will be heard. Second, the law has to be predictable. There has to be a reasonable expectation that the rules tomorrow are going to be roughly the same as the rules today. And third, the authority has to be fair. It can’t treat one group differently from another.” Malcolm Gladwell

2012-02-03, 02:52	Link #5557
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	^ Must admit that will be quite the intelligent plot. Not exactly the kind of thing i love to watch, but intelligent nontheless xD __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2012-02-03, 02:53	Link #5558
Nightengale ~Night of Gales~ Author Join Date: Dec 2005	Hmm... Spoiler for based on Key Board's spoiler: 1. Keep Eclipse Infectees in a Basement. 2. Slice, Dice, Chop Chop, Grind into Energy. 3. Regenerate. Repeat. 4. ?????? 5. PROFIT ON SOYLENT CLEAN™, exclusive only by Vandin. __________________ *Night~and~Gale: ~ The Final Mythology of the Man who Defied Destiny.* The sleeping lion shall awaken beyond the depths of time, crossing ten billion lights, come to Terra.

2012-02-03, 03:00	Link #5559
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	^ that sounds like something from Fullmetal Alchemist xD "Powered by a Forsaken Child" indeed xD __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~