[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[GabrieliosP]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

In the tales no one seems to notice it much.
I mean, if two servants were to tell me that my grandfather summoned demons that killed some of my relatives and made others fall in pitfalls that magically appeared first I would think they're joking then I would check if they took drugs.

Yet, Battler and Co swallowed this lie effortlessly.

As it was discussed before, the Episodes are in-story fiction, so as long as the in-story author wants to, then everything should be believeable. Like in Our Confessions, Natsuhi and Krauss went along with Yasu perfectly when they had plenty of options to not obey him/her and still live, bomb or not.

[Kiltias]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

Do we have a gun expert that can tell us more about the guns used?

My knowledge is limited.

m1897 -
It's a 12 gauge trench gun used by the US Army produced until 1957 with caliber 12 and 16.
It was used in several wars such as WW 1 and 2 and the Vietnam war capable of holding 6 bullets.

Its effective range is up to 20m so one can kill from quite the distance pretty handily.

A bit over a million were manufactured and is used by the army,police and hunters.

Our Confessions does mention Shannon having a handgun of some sort

There is a M1894 Handgun.Steyr Mannlicher.An early semi auto handgun of Austrian and Hungarian collab. origin.

Yet an M1894 is also a Winchester Model being a very popular hunting rifle and is said to have the ultimate lever action design so this one is champ at reloading.
EP 3: Rudolf: "Brats don't know anything about the refinement of a lever action"

Its a sporting rifle having sold over 7 Mil times and IMO interestingly used with smokeless powder so if you fire it residue is practically none making it effective for closeby killing.
Residue is how police determine if a shooter was close or far.
EG: Point blank leaves alot of residue.
With the 1894, that factor is gone.Yasu could just shoot someone from point blank and noone could tell.

Its pretty much THE gun for hunting and can even fire 44 magnum rounds.


Well if anything, its almost as if they ask to be used.

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by GabrieliosP

As it was discussed before, the Episodes are in-story fiction, so as long as the in-story author wants to, then everything should be believeable. Like in Our Confessions, Natsuhi and Krauss went along with Yasu perfectly when they had plenty of options to not obey him/her and still live, bomb or not.

I don't remember MetaBattler offering gun involving theories in the first episodes either.
He was always trying to make up weird stuffs that would shoot stakes so that stakes would pierce skulls and bones and so on.

I can't remember him discussing what killed the people in the 1st Twilight but chances are that he would overlook what he has in front of himself for something else.

And anyway if he were to mention the tools in there, since the people were killed by the gun he kept ignoring in the first episodes, Beato can tell him:

None of them was used to kill someone

and possibly

None of them was used to ruin the faces if she carried away the tool she used so that he wouldn't find it dirt in blood were he to search for it.

[GuestSpeaker]

IIRC when he got a bit less sucky in later games he did mention that their faces were probably just mashed up with the tools.

[chronotrig]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

I don't remember MetaBattler offering gun involving theories in the first episodes either.
He was always trying to make up weird stuffs that would shoot stakes so that stakes would pierce skulls and bones and so on.

I can't remember him discussing what killed the people in the 1st Twilight but chances are that he would overlook what he has in front of himself for something else.

And anyway if he were to mention the tools in there, since the people were killed by the gun he kept ignoring in the first episodes, Beato can tell him:

None of them was used to kill someone

and possibly

None of them was used to ruin the faces if she carried away the tool she used so that he wouldn't find it dirt in blood were he to search for it.

Isn't that a pretty big contrast though? Battler wasn't able to figure out how the stakes were used until EP4 (though he actually figures it out pretty quickly then, possibly because he'd had time to calm down from the crimes and nothing better to do). However, literally the very first thing he thinks after seeing the EP1 FT corpses is this:

I didn't know whether it had been one of these gardening tools, which if used for something other than their intended purpose could definitely be wielded with a naked brutality, or whether some horrible tool had been brought in here specifically for this.

Compare that to the stakes, where his best EP1 explanation was pretty pathetic.

[NeoMobius]

Could anyone help me out matching these traits to the complete cast of Umineko Characters

Here's what I have so far, I would appreciate any help if you could point who does or doesn't belong. In the end I hope to have one person per category without repeat. Thanks

Pervert - Rudolf / Asmodeus / Gap? / Erika?
Snob - Will / Kannon
Lazy - Belphegor
Arrogant - Erika / Bern / Eva / Eva Beatrice / Kasumi? / Natsuhi?
Idiot - Amakuza / Kinzo?
Know it all - Erika / Featherine?
Asshole - Kinzo/ Ghoda / Erika / Bern / Will / Rudolf

[Drifloon]

Compare that to the stakes, where his best EP1 explanation was pretty pathetic.

To be fair, it was actually George who came up with the stake shooting device, IIRC.

[Wegenbarth]

Originally Posted by NeoMobius

Could anyone help me out matching these traits to the complete cast of Umineko Characters

Here's what I have so far, I would appreciate any help if you could point who does or doesn't belong. In the end I hope to have one person per category without repeat. Thanks

Pervert - Rudolf / Asmodeus / Gap? / Erika?
Snob - Will / Kannon
Lazy - Belphegor
Arrogant - Erika / Bern / Eva / Eva Beatrice / Kasumi? / Natsuhi?
Idiot - Amakuza / Kinzo?
Know it all - Erika / Featherine?
Asshole - Kinzo/ Ghoda / Erika / Bern / Will / Rudolf

How about:

Pride - Natsuhi, Erika, Magical Ghoda Chef,
Envy - Kyrie, Jessica(see ep6), Leviathan
Greed - Eva, Mammon
Sloth - Kraus, Belphagore
Wrath - Rosa, Satan
Gluttony - Beelzebub, Hideyoshi
Lust - Kinzo, Asmodeus, Rudolf, Battler (ep1)

[Drifloon]

I don't THINK his categories were meant to correspond to the seven sins?

Because, if they were, the seven stakes would be pretty obvious candidates.

[Kiltias]

Originally Posted by Wegenbarth

How about:

Pride - Natsuhi, Erika, Magical Ghoda Chef,
Envy - Kyrie, Jessica(see ep6), Leviathan
Greed - Eva, Mammon
Sloth - Kraus, Belphagore
Wrath - Rosa, Satan
Gluttony - Beelzebub, Hideyoshi
Lust - Kinzo, Asmodeus, Rudolf, Battler (ep1)

Is it just me or is there some connection between stakes and parents?

7 being the amount of them as well as being able to fit to each.

Envy - Leviathan - Kyrie
Pride - Lucifer - Natsuhi
Wrath - Satan - Rosa
Greed - Mammon - Eva
Gluttony - Beelzebub - Hideyoshi

Only two problems I see are Lust and Sloth.
Lust isn't meant as sexual but it stands for desire.
Lust for power,fame,money whatever one can desire, but it doesn't mean sexual only, that just thought so as its often associated with it.
I'd actually put Lust for Krauss, desiring the inheritance and power, wasn't it that he made some failed investment or something?I think it was a resort.

[Kealym]

Originally Posted by NeoMobius

Could anyone help me out matching these traits to the complete cast of Umineko Characters

Here's what I have so far, I would appreciate any help if you could point who does or doesn't belong. In the end I hope to have one person per category without repeat. Thanks

Hm ... it ... kinda depends on what your purpose is? And what do you mean by "one per category without repeat", since there are like 50 characters..? Also, off the top of my head, the only character who'd probably fit "Lazy" would be Kumasawa. Certainly not Belphegor

Originally Posted by Kiltias

Is it just me or is there some connection between stakes and parents?

7 being the amount of them as well as being able to fit to each.

Envy - Leviathan - Kyrie
Pride - Lucifer - Natsuhi
Wrath - Satan - Rosa
Greed - Mammon - Eva
Gluttony - Beelzebub - Hideyoshi

Only two problems I see are Lust and Sloth.
Lust isn't meant as sexual but it stands for desire.
Lust for power,fame,money whatever one can desire, but it doesn't mean sexual only, that just thought so as its often associated with it.
I'd actually put Lust for Krauss, desiring the inheritance and power, wasn't it that he made some failed investment or something?I think it was a resort.

Yes, there's always been a rather thin correlation between the Stakes and the adults. There are seven of each, and both are a large group of siblings (being generous and including the spouses as brothers/sisters-in-law, of course). Furthermore, at least in EP1 and 2, the fantasy narrative played with the idea, very barely, that the stake victims were particularly guilty of what they were killed with (for example, in EP1 and 2 Kanon was killed by Satan as a result of his rush to attempt to fight Beatrice). It's an idea the story dropped after, at the latest and thinnest, Kyrolf's battle in Banquet.

The problem, as I see it, isn't with Lust and Sloth, but with conflation - several of the adults are decent fits for several of the sins.

On the matter of definitions - it pays to keep in mind that the list of the 7 deadly sins went through many, many translations over the centuries as it travelled between languages, and evolving semantics. The way that most of us know it was "codified" in Dante's Divine Comedy like 700 years ago, based on a revised list by Pope Gregory I.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that while, yes, Lust doesn't HAVE to refer to the sexual, it really, at least since then, almost always, ALWAYS ALWAYS is, which isn't surprising considering the rather high place most cultures put on some kind of codified sexual mores. If we always used lust more abstractly, to refer to desire in general, it would bleed too much into what's typically given to Greed, Envy, Sloth, all of them really. So it's probably simpler to keep it to the desire to bump uglies.

It IS interesting, though, that in the Divine Comedy, I believe Dante defined each of the sins as a type of twisted love (this fits really well with Beato's framework where love is the only element in the world) that took away from your love of God in some way. Lust, then, was an "excessive love of others", or something like that. Greed, then, was a love, specifically, for material goods. Gluttony, a love for consumption, and Envy, a love for what is not yours. This definition of Lust is supported by Umineko at least, in the sense, that Asmodeus defining trait (as a side character, she only gets one, of course) is that she wants to fall in love, or at least have a nice roll in the hay, I guess ... she made up her mind long ago about giving her chocolates to Amakusa in the Valentines TIP, after all.

[Valkama]

Well we could make the 7 adults fit all 7 of the sins easily.

Pride - Natsuhi
Envy - Kyrie
Wrath - Rosa
Sloth - Krauss
Greed - Eva
Gluttony - Hideyoshi
Lust - Rudolf

Actually that is rather humorous how all the sins fit all the adults, intentional or accidental on Ryukishi's part?

[Kealym]

I'd say accidental. Characters gotta have flaws, after all.

Also, how is Krauss slothful? How is Hideyoshi particularly gluttonous?
Is not Eva ALSO very prideful (in fact, being the one person besides Natsuhi who seems to care about the actual POSITION of the Headship, instead of just the money)? Is Rosa not also described as guilty of lust?

That sort of thing. A correlation is easy to make, but hard to make stick over any other possible correlation.

[Kiltias]

I see.


Well I dunno if its important but just to go sure, originally there were not 7 but 8 sins, the 8th being Sorrow or Despair.

It also says that the 8 sins are evil thoughts that can be collected in 3 groups.
Lustful appetite - Gluttony,Greed and Lust
Irascibility (Resulting from anger) - Wrath
Intellect - Despair/Sorrow,Envy,Sloth and Pride.

You see, isn't it that Battler is the one that never got staked yet still has a sin?
I just find it curious that despite his sin causing all this, he never gets staked by the stakes representing a sin.

How is Hideyoshi particularly gluttonous?

I think its because everytime he got staked it was with Beelzebub (Gluttony).

Personally I think Yasu did intend to stake everyone with a pattern.
Imma go by Illusions now as well.
EP 1:
Asmodeus - Eva
Beelzebub - Hideyoshi
Mammon - Kinzo
Satan - Kanon
Lucifer - Genji
Belphegor - Nanjo
Leviathan - Kumasawa

EP 2:
Asmodeus - Jessica
Satan - Kanon
Mammon - Shannon
Beelzebub - Gohda
Lucifer - George
Belphegor - Nanjo
Leviathan - Kumasawa

Compare this to EP 1.

EP 3:
Asmodeus - Rudolf
Beelzebub - Hideyoshi
Mammon - Kyrie
Lucifer - Krauss
Satan - Natsuhi

[Drifloon]

Okay guys, I've finally found the truth behind the whole series. Prepare yourselves, I have irrefutable evidence.

You see, at the end of the 6th game, we are told that even if Erika joins the group, there are only 17 people. Well, I have a perfect solution to this, that doesn't involve Shkanontrice at all. Behold.



You see, the answer was in the second game all along! This screen proves beyond any doubt that Erika is a split personality of Rosa. There's plenty of evidence for this in EP2; Battler repeatedly mentions how Rosa is acting differently than usual, clearly pointing to her having switched to her Erika personality as demonstrated so clearly by the above screenshot. So even if Erika joins the group, since she is just a split personality of Rosa, there are still only 17 people. There you go, everyone, you don't have to worry about Umineko's solution any more.

[Meltyred]

Just because she used a similar phrase doesn't mean they are the same...
(unless that's a joke, then by which I will laugh)

[Kiltias]

Meh.I'm not too fond of KNM but I gotta admit Rosa plays a large role in EP2.

You just need some knowledge about guns.


45 caliber long colt.
Handgun bullets that also work with the Winchester 1894.
Whether or nots is coincidence, I really don't know but, it's also capable to fire 410 shells.

Spoiler for Shells:

410 bore.

00 Buckshots.

I don't know if Ryukishi planned this though or as said, it just being a coincidence.

More importantly:
the existance of the 45 caliber long colt shows Kinzo might own some handguns.
Those cartridges are meant for revolvers.

[Valkama]

Originally Posted by Drifloon

You see, the answer was in the second game all along! This screen proves beyond any doubt that Erika is a split personality of Rosa. There's plenty of evidence for this in EP2; Battler repeatedly mentions how Rosa is acting differently than usual, clearly pointing to her having switched to her Erika personality as demonstrated so clearly by the above screenshot. So even if Erika joins the group, since she is just a split personality of Rosa, there are still only 17 people. There you go, everyone, you don't have to worry about Umineko's solution any more.

But if that's the case then Rosa is the Detective. Meaning the Chapel door was in fact locked meaning that the only way the people in the Chapel could die was through small bombs in their food meaning that Gohda is the culprit and controls an army of goats.

EVERYTHING MAKES SENSE NOW!

[Drifloon]

I'm kind of shocked that someone (possibly two people?) actually took me seriously. What is this place coming to?

[Kiltias]

Originally Posted by Drifloon

I'm kind of shocked that someone (possibly two people?) actually took me seriously. What is this place coming to?

Nah just one.And its not me.