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Old 2011-11-05, 11:24   Link #5341
MD84
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Zenkichi's not "using Ajimu" for his own reasons--he's submitting to her manipulations and her will. Ajimu said it herself that the only reason Zenkichi has no other options is because she destroyed them. Zenkichi's optimistic idea that, by playing exactly into Ajimu's plans, he'll somehow be able to come out and stop her is just completely naive and ridiculous. Zenkichi got completely cornered by a trap Ajimu laid around him (a trap which, for the record, it wasn't even completely impossible yet to escape from), and all he did was decide to go along with it as if it did not matter.
Oh I'm not saying he hasn't been manipulated into that position -- Ajimu spent nearly half the series so far doing just that (from the moment she gave him "Parasite Eyes" in chapter 71). I'm just saying he's ultimately doing this for his own reasons -- he wants to be special to Medaka, and the events of chapter 115 made it painfully clear that the only way he could do that was by becoming her next major opponent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Also, Ajimu's "agenda" is not to prove Medaka wrong--there's nothing to prove wrong. The Flask Plan is not something that demonstrates any fact or anything, it is simply something that goes against Medaka's ideals. Medaka believes that you don't need cheap and artificial "cheats" to become strong and to obtain happiness, while the Flask Plan is something which allows people to do so. If Ajimu manages to develop a procedure which can make anybody a "perfect" human, and then just hands it out to everybody/anybody, there'd be zero way for Medaka to stop her. That's what's at stake here: whether there'll still be any such thing as hard work and passionate effort towards achieving one's goals left in the world, not Medaka's "correctness".
Medaka's ideals are exactly what Ajimu is trying to disprove. Ajimu hates all human ideals, believing them all to be ultimately pointless reasons for fighting. I'm not saying Ajimu is right -- heck no -- but that's what she's trying to do.
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Old 2011-11-05, 13:27   Link #5342
urca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [HearT] View Post
YEES!!!! Fan service for girls!!!! >ヮ< It's been awhile♥ the first part of that chapter was hot~~

のヮの



MB is just getting more and more interesting lately it seems XD I'm really enjoying it~
Spoiler for めーー:


P.S
Spoiler for ど~も:
where was the chapter released?
Raws?link please
scanlations?link please
thanks in advance .
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Old 2011-11-05, 13:58   Link #5343
Last Carpet
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Spoiler for ch121:
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Old 2011-11-05, 15:44   Link #5344
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soji View Post
Westlo@I agree with you that a weak can defeat a stronger than himself, but it seems to me that you do not want to see that during the fight medaka vs Zen there was a big difference between the two.
Medaka=is made herslef weaker than Zen but fights without hold herself back.
Zen=He was still surprised by the back attack from medaka and in addition, he hold himslef back. ... I think that the author made it clear in his own way .

Hell even the dark hero pointed out this to Zen.
No I see the difference, I just don't like people saying "She was weaker so no way she should've won!" because frankly that's bullshit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MD84 View Post
The self-defeatism applies to verbal battles too. Kumagawa can still insult and mock people to bring them down to his level, but he can't talk himself up at all. If he tried to get into an "I should be the MC" debate with the intention of winning, he'd trip himself up. Heck, one opponent in the Treasure Hunt arc spelled it out for him when she said that he could never beat her in a contest of imagination because he cannot imagine actual victory.
Kumagawa going meta and showing how Medaka and Zen are failures as a lead characters and how he saved the manga means there's no way he could be defeated. More like he'll get "disqualified" and walk away go "Too bad I couldn't win again" while his opponents are devastated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MD84 View Post
Zenkichi isn't out to destroy the council. He just wants to stand up to Medaka and change himself. He's still willing to fulfill his duties as General Secretary after all.
It doesn't matter what Zenkichi's intentions are, by agreeing to Ajimu's plan he's set forth a chain of events that could completely wreck everything he stands for and likes. Sure he has intentions to stop it after he shows Medaka how big his dic strong he is in a fight, but whether he has the capability to follow through with those actions after the fight is another thing entirely.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions....

Quote:
Originally Posted by telamont View Post
Raw is out at the usual place. And once again, Kumagawa steals the spotlight.

I'm beginning to wonder if the author himself prefers Kumagawa.
But telamont... how can you steal something that is always on you? lol.

As for Nisio preferring Kumagawa, I've been saying that for the last couple of months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soji View Post
I still think that you guys draw the conclusion too fast.
It's not like we see 2 pics from a raw of a chapter and bash the shit out of characters like another faction in this thread... *whistles*

Quote:
Originally Posted by telamont View Post
But does he? Remember the "No one can beat Medaka until the 'protagonist' comes..." expectations of the previous arc? Not like he hasn't put Zen on a bus for a whole arc before. And to great reception in Japan from what I've gathered.
The Not-Equals Arc was hands down the best ranking arc of the manga, while a lot of people in this thread were going "Boring... where is Zen?" it seems Japan couldn't give a fuck about any of that and just loved the arc. Also I found it funny that a chapter that showcased something Zenkichi is incapable of doing (teamwork!) is the best ranking chapter of the manga.

Quote:
Simply put, by making himself a brand new third faction, Kumagawa has already established himself as a player in the new arc. Zenkichi at the moment is still a piece. So yea.
Kumagawa just made himself a boss, otoh Zen is a pawn arguing about Jump manga.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Kumagawa, to Zenkichi in ch. 90:
"Don't forget either, that the one who met Medaka-chan first, was me!"
Man that was an awesome "Know your place" moment from serious Kumagawa, would love to see the anime get up to that point....

Quote:
On the other hand, all this "Main Character" stuff I see as just Nishio being meta and messing around. At best it represents only the ideas of Ajimu Najimi, which will be refuted when Medaka wins. There are no "main characters" in real life or reality, just like there aren't really "main characters" in Medaka's world. Insofar as we see Medaka Box as a narrative/story, as just a manga and a piece of fiction, I don't think it's true that Medaka will ever stop being the "main"
Yeah definitely, the problem is that people seem to mistake lead male character for Main character; and hence combine that stuff with the Ajimu angle and think he's the MC all along and will now make it offiicial with assistance from Ajimu.

Because Zenkichi is definitely the Lead Male character of Medaka Box, but people trying to pull a Haruhi analogy with Medaka being in the title but not the MC and that Zen = Kyon is just missing the mark entirely. Haruhi is entirely from Kyon's POV in the light novels IIRC, Zen has missed major chunks of the story and Medaka has done all the MC things.

It's a shame that Medaka is one of the rare female MCs in all of the major Shounen magazines yet people want to rip that title of her...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Takigashima View Post
And TBH, when Kuma said he understood Zen's feelings. I don't think he actually did, regardless of his empathy towards the weak. The two just don't get along, even if they are on friendly terms.
You can understand someone and not get along with them.. heck knowing how people are sometimes just pisses you off more....

Quote:
Originally Posted by MD84 View Post
Oh I'm not saying he hasn't been manipulated into that position -- Ajimu spent nearly half the series so far doing just that (from the moment she gave him "Parasite Eyes" in chapter 71). I'm just saying he's ultimately doing this for his own reasons -- he wants to be special to Medaka, and the events of chapter 115 made it painfully clear that the only way he could do that was by becoming her next major opponent.
It doesn't matter if he's doing it for his own reasons, he's been forced into following along and as a direct result whatever comes from him defeating Medaka in battle and than failing to stop Ajimu is all on him.
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Old 2011-11-05, 15:44   Link #5345
Used Can
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Some new info in Wanizuka.

Spoiler:
__________________
"The name is Tin; Used is just an alias. I'm everything Shoe Box would like to be." - Used Can of the Aluminium Kingdom
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Old 2011-11-05, 16:02   Link #5346
Westlo
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Lets play prediction time!

We all know that it will be Medaka Vs Ajimu, even people who think Zen will 100% become the MC know this deep down inside themselves. So my question is... who will face off against Hanten Shiranui?

Medaka as a warm up for Ajimu?
Zenkichi showing off his new shit once again?
Kumagawa losing but winning at the same time? (I meant to seal you and Ajimu away forever, only worked for 3 years, I lost again!)
Hansode Shiranui hasn't been doing much lately and is probably as strong as Kumagawa... battle of the relatives?
Zen + Kumagawa teamup, Zen learns teamwork?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guernsey View Post


It seems like just awhile ago most people were wating for this manga to fall but it didn't. Theya re very silent now but haters are gonna hate.
They've been silent ever since Kumagawa's arc made it apparent that the manga was no longer anywhere near close to being cancelled.
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Old 2011-11-05, 16:41   Link #5347
Nvis
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Dark hero can beat the crap out of Kumagawa?
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Old 2011-11-05, 16:42   Link #5348
Last Carpet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
Some new info in Wanizuka.

Spoiler:
Kei and Koi...ok then.

Still wondering what's up with her left eye.

Anywho....

I've been bouncing thoughts for the future of the arc.

Medaka always wins, that we know. Even her personal losses are overall victories(forcing Misogi to leave Middle School)

Unzen never changed his mindset, but decided to lay off the Student Council
Oudo was humbled so thoroughly that he swore to change his ways
Misogi was shown friendship and loyalty and finally understood that, despite his view of himself, that he was strong.

So how will this work out for Zen?

He's not evil, he knows what he wants and is striving to get it, he's making his choices and trying his best to change.

Should Medaka beat him, then what?
Yeah she prefers her enemies, but those enemies are standing against Medaka for their own beliefs and Zen's becoming her enemy because he wants to be special to her.

What would defeat mean for Zen?

And if he beats her, what then? He becomes Medaka's enemy and gives her the first real defeat she's ever had. So she starts to appreciate him, but come on he had to go through the Flask Plan just to get Medaka's attention? If he beats her it might finally sink in just how much Medaka takes him for granted.

I wonder how victory would affect him?

Last edited by Last Carpet; 2011-11-05 at 17:29.
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Old 2011-11-05, 16:44   Link #5349
Lummie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Lets play prediction time!

We all know that it will be Medaka Vs Ajimu, even people who think Zen will 100% become the MC know this deep down inside themselves. So my question is... who will face off against Hanten Shiranui?
Ajimu vs Medaka
Tsurubame suits Kumagawa. Square VS Jump. I can see it already. (that is, if he decides to side with Ajimu till the end)
Hanten vs Zenkichi (and Shiranui)
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Old 2011-11-05, 16:53   Link #5350
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nvis View Post
Dark hero can beat the crap out of Kumagawa?
Assuming he stays on Ajimu's side by that point. Though as Lummie pointed out the Jump Square fanboy vs WSJ fanboy angle might be too good to miss out on....
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Old 2011-11-05, 16:57   Link #5351
urca
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Dark Hero is crazy,i think he can give a whoopin to anyone excluding medaka+ajimu
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Old 2011-11-05, 17:10   Link #5352
Takigashima
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Kuma may have met medaka first. But Zen's words and general zen-ness is what prevented her from becoming a minus.
And even of you don't get along, knowing how a person feels can not be truly understood if you hate each other, could you understand a cheater If you hated them? No, cause your instant thought regardless of empathy or sympathy you would have the urge to kill them. Zen and kuma will not understand eachother until zen can get past the events from middle school.
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Old 2011-11-05, 18:16   Link #5353
Odd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Assuming he stays on Ajimu's side by that point. Though as Lummie pointed out the Jump Square fanboy vs WSJ fanboy angle might be too good to miss out on....
I think he will as long as Zenkichi is still there, because I don't really see him getting along with anyone else in the council really or the others in the opposing factions (maybe Nabeshima but that's a stretch).
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Old 2011-11-05, 21:04   Link #5354
Clarste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Kumagawa going meta and showing how Medaka and Zen are failures as a lead characters and how he saved the manga means there's no way he could be defeated. More like he'll get "disqualified" and walk away go "Too bad I couldn't win again" while his opponents are devastated.
Minus don't win, they just make sure both sides lose.
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Old 2011-11-05, 21:08   Link #5355
telamont
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Chapter 121 is out. Another lightning fast release from CxC. Thanks, guys!

And Kumagawa is even more awesome once you fully understand what they're saying. That is all.

I definitely know which faction I'll be cheering on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Kumagawa just made himself a boss, otoh Zen is a pawn arguing about Jump manga.
And Westlo, what do you mean Kumagawa just made himself a boss? He was student council president in middle school. Leader of the Minus in high school. And now, head of the "Naked Apron" faction!!! The man's always been boss.
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Old 2011-11-05, 21:22   Link #5356
Sixth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by telamont View Post
Chapter 121 is out. Another lightning fast release from CxC. Thanks, guys!

And Kumagawa is even more awesome once you fully understand what they're saying. That is all.

I definitely know which faction I'll be cheering on.



And Westlo, what do you mean Kumagawa just made himself a boss? He was student council president in middle school. Leader of the Minus in high school. And now, head of the "Naked Apron" faction!!! The man's always been boss.
Not that he wants to be the leader. He is just "ally of the weak" and this what makes people look up to him. That is a better quality than "I got dumped by girl, that why I seek the power of the darkness to gain her back"

The funny thing is, Kumagawa just gained 6 girls for his harem quest.
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Old 2011-11-05, 22:28   Link #5357
DawnEmperor
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So now back to the whole "Medaka-right Zenkichi-Wrong Kumagawa-Awesome..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Yeah definitely, the problem is that people seem to mistake lead male character for Main character; and hence combine that stuff with the Ajimu angle and think he's the MC all along and will now make it offiicial with assistance from Ajimu.

Because Zenkichi is definitely the Lead Male character of Medaka Box, but people trying to pull a Haruhi analogy with Medaka being in the title but not the MC and that Zen = Kyon is just missing the mark entirely. Haruhi is entirely from Kyon's POV in the light novels IIRC, Zen has missed major chunks of the story and Medaka has done all the MC things.

It's a shame that Medaka is one of the rare female MCs in all of the major Shounen magazines yet people want to rip that title of her...
In terms of Shonen Female protagonists, don't forget Maka from Soul Eater, Kagome from Inuyasha, and maybe Lucy from Fairy Tail. Why do you keep changing the reasons for people hating Medaka? Because she's "one of the few female protagonists" in shonen manga? Come on, now. This shouldn't be about gender anyway, it should be about her overall character that people are disagreeing with.

I'm becoming sort of disillusioned with the role of Main character though. Personally, I don't think it means crap. Sure Ajimu uses all these metaphors and pokes fun at tropes, but why are we taking it all at face value? Ultimately, what is the role of main character? It just mean that there's more focus upon you, not that the story should literally revolve around you, and you have to do everything important.

And what's so great about becoming main character (yes, both Kumagawa and Zenkichi fans, tell me your reasoning)? You suffer from DesignatedProtagonistSyndrome? Almost every other character is more popular? Or, if you're not bland, you end up overshadowing everyone.

A harsh thing is that characters aren't always going to be likable. Yeah, we always make likable characters one of our minimum criteria for judging, but often times characters are deliberately assholes, and not because of some trauma. Horrible characterization? Maybe.
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Old 2011-11-05, 22:34   Link #5358
LeaD36
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this manga never made any sense, never will, and still doesn't.
I guess it's all fine as long as Kumagawa can keep on trolling. Heck he even became the third force - outside the dimension of protagonist-antagonist-kumagawagonoist
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Old 2011-11-05, 22:41   Link #5359
DawnEmperor
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^
Hypothetically, what if you dislike all three?
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Old 2011-11-05, 22:43   Link #5360
Shinn Kamiyra
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Location: Tell me and then we'll both know o__O
Aw hell, Naked Apron senpai is back in all his All Fiction awesomeness.

When did he do that though?

Now hold on just a minute here. Munakata didn't end up killing our favorite Minus after all, and as he himself said, he lost his impulse to kill as a result of that fight.

Might we chalk this up as Kumagawa's very first win, just this once for now and until all eternity comes to an end? And let us not forget he also got in his, possibly, very first kiss...well, kinda sorta anyway.

Sounds like a win to me. ;D
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