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Old 2011-11-05, 23:57   Link #5361
MD84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
You don't seem to be understanding the "third force" as a force. If their goal is to stop Medaka and Zenkichi from fighting, they will be using force to do it. It's not about supporting one side over the other or convincing either one of them to stop fighting. Both Medaka and Zenkichi want to/are determined to fight in the first place. The third force's aim is to make it impossible for them to fight by defeating (or at least getting in the way of) the both of them.
And here I thought they were going to try diplomacy. Whatever was I thinking.

Honestly, I can appreciate that idea. Lord knows there have been times I played a videogame that railroaded me into choosing between sides that both have issues, and I just wished beating the stupid out of both of them was an option.

Though in this case, I don't think anything short of breaking every bone in their bodies will stop Medaka and Zenkichi from fighting. They'd have to neutralize everyone else involved too for good measure. It's sometimes funny how the neutral third option is sometimes the most violent one.
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Old 2011-11-06, 00:59   Link #5362
Clarste
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The stated enemy of the Naked Apron Alliance is Ajimu. Who is clearly manipulating the fight between Medaka and Zenkichi. And probably predicted this turn of events. But they're going to be fighting her anyway.
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Old 2011-11-06, 01:17   Link #5363
neots
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not trying to be a hater but i really dont care about kumagawa or the third force right now what i'm really interested is in zenkichi and what kinda skill will he developed to fight against medaka.

and even though the third force is trying to stop this fight it wont happen beacuse it happen twice and heck nobody tried to stop it beside's i think it will happen because that's what we all want and also this is to prove how zenkichi can be more of a badass than before. also there are a lot of things that are a mistery about zenkichi and i mean a lot such as how did ajimu and zenkichi became BF and GF.

also what puzzels me is the thing that ajimu mentioned such as this "FATHER" that medaka kill, and also who becomes the MC by killing a family member because ajimu did mentioned that this was one of the three dispicable acts a human can commit,but that's jut me in thinking.

also if zenkichi does gain an ability to fight againts medaka it be kinda cool if it were something like "NORMALITY" that can make their apponents fight on equal footing not like medakas "FORBIDDEN GOD MODE" that makes you weaker than your apponent or like kumagawa's "BOOK MAKER" which makes you into a minus OR "ALL FICTION". an if zenkichi does fight againts kumagawa i hope that it'll be more epic than their first fight though that was the definition of epicness for zenkichi. and as medaka mentioned that it is not those who win who become strong but those the lose and crawl back up that are the strongest. so the only thing left to do is to wait and see how zenkichi starts to kick rears.
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Old 2011-11-06, 01:42   Link #5364
Clarste
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Zenkichi won't win with a "power". If a "power" was all it took then Ajimu could easily win herself, or just grant him the appropriate power. Heck, I'm pretty sure Ajimu does have the power to take away or nullify other people's powers. Not to mention that Naze already made a drug that does that.

The issue here is a matter of "fate". Remember that the basic test for Abnormality is to roll dice and always get some unlikely result (all sixes for Unzan and a tower for Medaka). And the test to qualify for Class 13 is to enter random numbers into a constantly changing password and get it right every time. More than her "power", Medaka's specialness is that she cannot lose. Ever. Fate itself is on her side. The world bends over backwards to make sure she wins. For Zenkichi to win he'll have to somehow change his fate.
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Old 2011-11-06, 01:59   Link #5365
neots
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Zenkichi won't win with a "power". If a "power" was all it took then Ajimu could easily win herself, or just grant him the appropriate power. Heck, I'm pretty sure Ajimu does have the power to take away or nullify other people's powers. Not to mention that Naze already made a drug that does that.

The issue here is a matter of "fate". Remember that the basic test for Abnormality is to roll dice and always get some unlikely result (all sixes for Unzan and a tower for Medaka). And the test to qualify for Class 13 is to enter random numbers into a constantly changing password and get it right every time. More than her "power", Medaka's specialness is that she cannot lose. Ever. Fate itself is on her side. The world bends over backwards to make sure she wins. For Zenkichi to win he'll have to somehow change his fate.
perhaps your right about this. becasue it is also mentioned at the end of chapter 115 that "THUS FATE BEGINS TO MOVE" maybe it was all for zenkichi, maybe fate has cided with zenkichi perhaps since the begining he was born, but who knows that's fate for you always being random.
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Old 2011-11-06, 02:29   Link #5366
whx_epic
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I guess Ajimu is the one who returns AllFiction to Kumagawa.
If Kumagawa dies before he reforms, then the seal put on Ajimu will never be removed, and by giving AllFiction back, Kumagawa will be stronger(and now he even has a harem!) and make a bigger possibility for him to reform.
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Old 2011-11-06, 02:34   Link #5367
MD84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Zenkichi won't win with a "power". If a "power" was all it took then Ajimu could easily win herself, or just grant him the appropriate power. Heck, I'm pretty sure Ajimu does have the power to take away or nullify other people's powers. Not to mention that Naze already made a drug that does that.

The issue here is a matter of "fate". Remember that the basic test for Abnormality is to roll dice and always get some unlikely result (all sixes for Unzan and a tower for Medaka). And the test to qualify for Class 13 is to enter random numbers into a constantly changing password and get it right every time. More than her "power", Medaka's specialness is that she cannot lose. Ever. Fate itself is on her side. The world bends over backwards to make sure she wins. For Zenkichi to win he'll have to somehow change his fate.
Heck, this might have been foreshadowed earlier with the password system. The chairman mentioned that the door number set itself back to Zenkichi's birthday.

@whx_epic:

Maybe that's why Ajimu gave him All-Fiction years ago in the first place, to keep him from killing himself and leaving her sealed forever. All-Fiction does revive Kumagawa whether he wants it or not. She gave it back to him once he showed the resolve to live due to his desire to fight Medaka, and returned it once he was in danger of dying again.
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Old 2011-11-06, 03:14   Link #5368
tsunade666
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Originally Posted by whx_epic View Post
Kumagawa will be stronger(and now he even has a harem!) and make a bigger possibility for him to reform.
Misogi-chan deserves his harem
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Old 2011-11-06, 03:36   Link #5369
ShiroiRyu
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Hahaha ... Yes Kumagawa need it ...
But just one girl, not a harem.
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Old 2011-11-06, 04:26   Link #5370
whx_epic
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Originally Posted by ShiroiRyu View Post
Hahaha ... Yes Kumagawa need it ...
But just one girl, not a harem.
Well looks like Kikaijima and Takarabe has fall for him. And the other members of naked apron alliance can be seen as the supporting harem(well the non-romantic one...).
Okay, maybe it is a bit farfetched to say that it is a harem for a normal shonen series, but this is kumagawa(very non-standard shonen character) we are talking about .
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Old 2011-11-06, 06:50   Link #5371
Culaio
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I am not really happy about third force since it won't fix anything by bring back the status quo since as we now know it was FAR from perfect(medaka doesn't have friends, zen is used by medaka).

I don't understand why people believe that Kumagawa deserves harem O_o, he ripped off Ajimu face(even if she was evil it doesn't change anything), he was FAR to easily forgiven for that.
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Old 2011-11-06, 06:59   Link #5372
Takigashima
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Originally Posted by Culaio View Post
I am not really happy about third force since it won't fix anything by bring back the status quo since as we now know it was FAR from perfect(medaka doesn't have friends, zen is used by medaka).

I don't understand why people believe that Kumagawa deserves harem O_o, he ripped off Ajimu face(even if she was evil it doesn't change anything), he was FAR to easily forgiven for that.
Kuma has been forgiven for all the shit he's done, only zen never forgave nor trusts him which has lead to the point we are at now.
Not hating on zen or kuma, but tbh I want to see Kuma's group fail doing what they set out to do and have a 3 way battle with kuma+meda vs zen.
I wanna see zen become a troll for once and troll the face out of everyone.
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Old 2011-11-06, 07:07   Link #5373
MD84
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Originally Posted by Takigashima View Post
Kuma has been forgiven for all the shit he's done, only zen never forgave nor trusts him which has lead to the point we are at now.
Not hating on zen or kuma, but tbh I want to see Kuma's group fail doing what they set out to do and have a 3 way battle with kuma+meda vs zen.
I wanna see zen become a troll for once and troll the face out of everyone.
Zen is pretty much the only character who still doesn't trust or like Kumagawa. The guy did BLIND him in their fight after all, and the only reason he can still see is because of the "Parasite Eyes", which weren't an unqualified gift either.
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Old 2011-11-06, 07:21   Link #5374
Soji
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Originally Posted by MD84 View Post
Zen is pretty much the only character who still doesn't trust or like Kumagawa. The guy did BLIND him in their fight after all, and the only reason he can still see is because of the "Parasite Eyes", which weren't an unqualified gift either.
True..but I think there is something more maybe I'm wrong .... but I think something happened during the middle school which is sealed in Zen memories the one that he can not remember.
And somehow, even without remembering about that (whatever that memorie is) he instinctively being on guard before Kumagawa.
And if I'm right, I'm curious to see what's this thing, because I doubt that Zen behaves like this with Kumagawa only because of what happened with medaka.
The problem is the only three who know this are Zen (who does not remember), Kumagawa (which is the king of liars in most of the cases) and Najimi and well....I don't know if she will ever said something about that time. ._.
So the only hope is that Zen remember that time.
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Old 2011-11-06, 07:22   Link #5375
Culaio
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I know that kumogawa was forgiven by everyone(only zen doesn't trust him) including his fans, not only that but his fans believe that he deserves harem for being a troll O_o

being easily forgiven is another manga clinche .
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Old 2011-11-06, 08:47   Link #5376
LeaD36
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Originally Posted by DawnEmperor View Post
^
Hypothetically, what if you dislike all three?
go read something else
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Old 2011-11-06, 09:52   Link #5377
DawnEmperor
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^
I said hypothetically .

Maybe dislike is the wrong word. Disagree is what i meant. Zenkichi is trying to prove Medaka wrong, but because he wants to be special to her. Medaka wants a good battle, and Kumagawa just wants to screw things up. Now that I think about it, none of them are completely noble motivations. I'll just sit back and see what unfolds.

Last edited by DawnEmperor; 2011-11-06 at 10:09.
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Old 2011-11-06, 10:22   Link #5378
DawnEmperor
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Originally Posted by Culaio View Post
I know that kumogawa was forgiven by everyone(only zen doesn't trust him) including his fans, not only that but his fans believe that he deserves harem for being a troll O_o

being easily forgiven is another manga clinche .
Well, that has happened with many Medaka characters.

Akune- Repeatedly attacked Medaka during Middle school
Oudo- Nearly killed Kikaijima and Koga
Kumagawa- Well you know...

On one hand, many antagonists have freudian excuses. On the other hand, certain actions can't be ignored.
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Old 2011-11-06, 11:23   Link #5379
Shinn Kamiyra
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Kumagawa's first kiss (in this manga, anyway) was already with Ajimu. lol, that's how boss he is, man. Kikaijima's is the second.

On the other hand, seeing as it was Ajimu's kiss that traded All Fiction in the first place, maybe Kumagawa was serious about that being the "miracle" that unlocked and revived him.

Munakata lost his impulse to kill, but like Kumagawa said this actually makes him stronger. Now Munakata has no more reason to hold himself back. The hidden weapons he was carrying, were actually a seal on his abilities.

If Kumagawa had actually died, then Munakata would've been disgusted with his abilities and lost not just his will to kill, but his will to fight as well. Just as Munakata unlocked Kumagawa's Book Maker, Kumagawa has unlocked Munakata's real strength as well. I wouldn't call this fight a "win".

Anyway, it's been weird from the beginning that Munakata came to watch Kumagawa on Ajimu's orders. As of this chapter, it seems like Munakata has fully jumped on the wagon of supporting Ajimu's side. Much as Munakata claims to be acting on friendship, in just the last chapter Zenkichi's description of their relationship was nothing more than "We hung out a bit over the summer". The "disgusted look" that Kumagawa mentioned is on Munakata's face all the time--that contempt for everything--I wonder if that isn't the point of connection that make the way he and Ajimu see things similar.

Incidentally, about the Not Equals. I've had this hunch for a while now, and now it seems to be confirmed. All of the Not Equals who are "a part of Ajimu" have a requirement that they be normal. The only skills that they have, are the ones that Anshin'in-san has lent them. This is why with the earlier fight against Aka-san Takarabe said that it should be strange for any "Not Equals" to be near or around the Clock Tower facility for the Flask Plan.

Munakata Koi used to have an abnormal ability. When she destroyed her eye, she got rid of it and became Wanizuka Shiori. Only by becoming a normal was she allowed/able to become part of Ajimu Najimi.
Ah, I'd forgotten about his 'kiss' with Anshin'in. XD

In any case, while a win for Kumagawa may be up to interpretation here, I think we can at least agree that he didn't lose. That in and of itself is pretty significant for his character.

An exceedingly interesting theory for being a Not Equal though. When you think of it like that, it's almost as if near the entire world could become a part of Anshin'in several times over. A truly frightening thought indeed.

Speaking of Anshin'in though... I still haven't quite figured out what it is that's going on in her mind. To her, humans are so valueless an existence that they haven't more worth than a fluttering leaf in the breeze. If that's true, then is she really trying to advance the Flask Plan?

All of this nonsense about the main character and what not, defeating Medaka, and even toying around with Zenkichi. It almost seems as though she's doing nothing but having fun to try and pass the time.
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Old 2011-11-06, 12:19   Link #5380
Haesslich
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I find it more interesting that the Hadaka Apron Alliance wants to return everyone to the status quo... when everyone's changed enough that you'd have to turn back time t get. That state of innocent happiness that existed before th treasure hunt chapter. Like to the time before Zenkichi became a bit abnormal.

I think nobody but Kumagawa understands that it's impossible... but he's going along anyways because it amuses him to try, and because he does act as the ally of the weak (Kikaijima in this case). it won't ever be quite the same -the best they can hope for is a new basis of understanding that will let Zen and Medaka communicate at a respectful level.
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