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Old 2011-11-19, 15:50   Link #5781
Clarste
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Remember that Emukae kept her rotting power even after Kumagawa erased it. There's precedent for people keeping powers that they've lost.
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Old 2011-11-19, 17:16   Link #5782
Tenchi Hou Take
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Somebody View Post
Yeah, the critical component, the car, or in this case hundred gauntlets/bookmaker wasn't made by Kumagawa. If he could do that, he would be hanten, but it looks like he can modify any cars he gets. He happened to have bookmaker, the car, from when he traded all fiction for it, so he pimped it out. He doesn't have the car in the scrap heap, but he does have the pimpage.

The two components, the skill and the modifications. He traded a skill with modifications, all fiction, for a skill without modifications, so he's not really losing the car, he's just losing the pimpage that makes it all fiction. If he pimps his skill with the modifications which he does have access to, it's back to all fiction.

I don't think he will be able to use bookmaker anymore. That car was pimped to all fiction. It could explain why he didn't have bookmaker inthe first place.

A good example, pokemon. All fiction is the evolved pokemon of bookmaker, and Kumagawa had the item needed to transform it. And then he traded the evolved pokemon for the unevolved pokemon, and then evolved it again. He can't make pokemon, but he can evolve them. And Hanten is a pokeball.
Problem with that analogy is that your assumming their both cars when they don't even work remotely similar, book maker would be like boat in comparsion to all fictions car, you can't just turn a boat into a car, sure their both methods of transportation but the amount of crap you need to turn a boat into a car you could just make a car anyway. It makes NO sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Remember that Emukae kept her rotting power even after Kumagawa erased it. There's precedent for people keeping powers that they've lost.
This isn't about keeping powers, Emukae's power is linked to her personality that she born with, so it would extremely difficult to remove. Kumagawa's was acquired through Aijimu an ability given to him with said ability being removed. It's not his ability and it's not naturally a part of his personality. Heck he didn't even keep a hundred gauntlets which he should have kept if keeping powers that he's lost was what actually happened.

What happened was that he illogically made an ability from absolute crap he should be able to as if he could that he could make any ablity he damn well wanted.
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Old 2011-11-19, 17:22   Link #5783
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
Problem with that analogy is that your assumming their both cars when they don't even work remotely similar, book maker would be like boat in comparsion to all fictions car, you can't just turn a boat into a car, sure their both methods of transportation but the amount of crap you need to turn a boat into a car you could just make a car anyway. It makes NO sense.
lol, do you even know what Hundred Gauntlets originally did in the first place? Ajimu didn't give Kumagawa All Fiction, Kumagawa made it, and if he could do it with one random other skill he had then it is perfectly plausible that he could repeat the process.
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Old 2011-11-19, 17:24   Link #5784
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
lol, do you even know what Hundred Gauntlets originally did in the first place?
If it was so similar to bookmaker why didn't he make all fiction with it originally? Use some sense. i mean this has so many aspects that put it in a view of an asspull I find it hard to think otherwise. There's no way in hell smething so convient occurred without contradicting what happened before.
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Old 2011-11-19, 17:27   Link #5785
Sol Falling
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
If it was so similar to bookmaker why didn't he make all fiction with it originally? Use some sense.
Book Maker just has to be similar enough. In the first place this is a weaker version of it, so it obviously has less compatibility. You know absolutely nothing about Hundred Gauntlets that you could say creating All Fiction from another skill doesn't make sense, though.
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Old 2011-11-19, 17:31   Link #5786
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Book Maker just has to be similar enough. In the first place this is a weaker version of it, so it obviously has less compatibility. You know absolutely nothing about Hundred Gauntlets that you could say creating All Fiction from another skill doesn't make sense, though.
What doesn't make sense is why he didn't make it from bookmaker orginally if that was the case, he would not even need hundred gauntles if that was the case. This All fiction can negate death, that's the best feat the original all fiction even had.

Just like assuming that creating all fiction from another skill does make sense. That is what an asspull is. When there is an absense of logical explanation by the author. Kumagawa has had book maker his entire life until he got a hundred gauntlets. Are you saying that through that time he would have never bothered modifying it to all fiction if he could and only after he lost all fiction something he created, that he realises he could have made with his original ability all along?
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Old 2011-11-19, 17:35   Link #5787
Inarius
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just so you guys know, the ch is out...should be between page 1-5 on 4chan.

and the kuma segment was hella funny
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Old 2011-11-19, 17:40   Link #5788
Takigashima
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It bought that Ajimu gave kuma hundread gauntlet which he used to modify his bookmaker
Creating all fiction.
In terms of cars, it would be like kuma was driving an older Ferrari, he upgrades said ferrarinbut keeps old Ferrari. Now new Ferrari breaks down and he starts using old Ferrari, but decides to modify old Ferrari with parts from new Ferrari.
While the old Ferrari has the new parts, Doesn't mean that the rebuilt Ferrari will run like the new one or the old one.
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Old 2011-11-19, 18:57   Link #5789
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
What doesn't make sense is why he didn't make it from bookmaker orginally if that was the case, he would not even need hundred gauntles if that was the case. This All fiction can negate death, that's the best feat the original all fiction even had.

Just like assuming that creating all fiction from another skill does make sense. That is what an asspull is. When there is an absense of logical explanation by the author. Kumagawa has had book maker his entire life until he got a hundred gauntlets. Are you saying that through that time he would have never bothered modifying it to all fiction if he could and only after he lost all fiction something he created, that he realises he could have made with his original ability all along?
Didn't Ajimu explain that Kumagawa reformed All Fiction based on remnants of it from when he had it originally? Didn't she also mention that the Hundred Gauntlet's version was stronger? The only reason Kumagawa can remake All Fiction now is because he ingrained it into himself during the time he had Hundred Gauntlets. How long he had Book Maker originally is irrelevant (we are not even sure that Kumagawa really converted Book Maker for his new All Fiction yet. For all we know, Kumagawa's new weaker All Fiction might've just reformed from those leftover remnants alone.).

In the first place, Book Maker was Kumagawa's original Minus, which suited his personality. He even went so far as to trade All Fiction back in order to gain it again. We saw at the start of the Not Equals arc that, even before he had All Fiction, Kumagawa was a virtually indestructible person from the beginning. Why would he have made All Fiction, if Book Maker wasn't naturally suited for it, and fit his personality better in it's natural form?


Anyway, I read the new chapter. Good shit, but I'm too tired to type anything out right now, so that's all for now.
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Old 2011-11-19, 19:54   Link #5790
Odd
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Finally chapter 123 is out and it's very good (like SF said).

Opinion on main points in chapter:

- I think Medaka needed this loss because the way she's always looking down on people in terms of strength is frustrating, so hopefully she ends up fighting Zen at full strength (I still want Zen to win though)

- Going by Ajimu's face I'm guessing the skill seems quite stupid, but all shonen battle manga main characters need a stupid skill compared to others in their respective manga's i.e. rubberman, smaller sword (compared to some capable of creating fire, illusions,ice,dimensions...etc with their swords), harem jutsu, a regular but powered up punch (HxH) and other stuff along those lines

- I think we may also be seeing a late team swap from Maguro and Naze/Kujira so it will be the Kurokami siblings on one team


But again overall very good chapter, can't wait to see next week's
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Old 2011-11-19, 21:30   Link #5791
Sixth
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I wonder, so Kumagawa now can use bookmarker and All-fiction?

Also, why is Kumagawa didn't use his bookmarker in any battle?
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Old 2011-11-19, 21:49   Link #5792
Vigo
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Having to many skills makes you more of a last boss. Didn't she just described herself? You gotta love Ajimu.
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Old 2011-11-19, 21:51   Link #5793
MD84
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Originally Posted by Odd View Post
- I think we may also be seeing a late team swap from Maguro and Naze/Kujira so it will be the Kurokami siblings on one team
It seems more like they want to make sure no one else defeats Medaka before Zenkichi has a chance to fight her.

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Having to many skills makes you more of a last boss. Didn't she just described herself? You gotta love Ajimu.
Which neatly explains why she refuses to fight Medaka directly. That and she's still partially sealed.
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Old 2011-11-19, 22:52   Link #5794
Shinn Kamiyra
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I'm not at all sure I understand the point behind Medaka's latest new mode. Combining strength and weakness... wouldn't that just be your normal self? o__O

Still awesome that Kamome wiped the floor with Medaka without so much as a scratch on him. Now I want to see him fight seriously. >__<

And judging by the look on Anshin'in's face, Zen picked out one hell of a weird skill. Can't wait to see it and use it in his upcoming fight with Medaka.
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Old 2011-11-19, 22:54   Link #5795
Sixth
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Originally Posted by Vigo View Post
Having to many skills makes you more of a last boss. Didn't she just described herself? You gotta love Ajimu.
Naruto has a lot of skill/technique. Then, he is a final boss material?

It is pretty silly for a main character to have 1 or 3 skills. It makes the fight boring to watch/read.

Ajimu, I disappointed with you. I can't believe that you actually said that.

Last edited by Sixth; 2011-11-19 at 23:13.
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Old 2011-11-19, 22:58   Link #5796
Guernsey
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^ Well there is still sasuke.....
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Old 2011-11-19, 23:12   Link #5797
DawnEmperor
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When you think about it, Naruto spent most of the series without that many techniques (like the concept "When all you have is a hammer"). Yeah, he has new modes, but his techniques still revolve around "Shadow Clones and rasengans". Sasuke on the other hand, pulls all these techniques out his ass, has the sharingan, and all these other abilities.
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Old 2011-11-19, 23:15   Link #5798
Sixth
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Originally Posted by DawnEmperor View Post
When you think about it, Naruto spent most of the series without that many techniques (like the concept "When all you have is a hammer"). Yeah, he has new modes, but his techniques still revolve around "Shadow Clones and rasengans". Sasuke on the other hand, pulls all these techniques out his ass, has the sharingan, and all these other abilities.
Naruto knows henge no jutsu, shunshin no jutsu, summoning no jutsu, shadow shuriken techniques, rasengan, sage mode, and kyubi mode.

It is still more than one or three techniques that Ajumu don't wants for main character.
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Old 2011-11-19, 23:18   Link #5799
MD84
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Originally Posted by noobita View Post
Naruto has a lot of skill/technique. Then, he is a final boss material?

It is pretty silly for a main character to have 1 or 3 skills. It makes the fight boring to watch/read.

Ajimu, I disappointed with you. I can't believe that you actually said that.
A lot of Shonen MCs may get upgrades that improve their power, or come up with new techniques based on their original abilities, but they rarely pull out new powers from nowhere.

Naruto would be "final boss" material if he suddenly manifested super-hax eye powers that shot black fire, summoned a demon warrior, created inescapable illusions, the ability to summon meteors, living forests, etc. much like how Sasuke and Uchiha Madara are doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noobita View Post
Naruto knows henge no jutsu, shunshin no jutsu, summoning no jutsu, shadow shuriken techniques, rasengan, sage mode, and kyubi mode.

It is still more than one or three techniques that Ajumu don't wants for main character.
Naruto doesn't know shunshin, he's just really freaking fast in Kyuubi mode. Sage mode and Kyuubi mode aren't techniques but power-ups that allow Naruto to tap into massive sources of chakra. Shadow Shuriken is just an extension of his duplication techniques. Henge is one of the most basic techniques ninjas in the Naruto-verse know, and he hasn't used it for a while now anyway.

Naruto's techniques boil down to taking advantage of the massive chakra sources available to him to use summoning, rasengan, and duplication to their fullest. Three techniques in all.
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Old 2011-11-19, 23:19   Link #5800
Xacual
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noobita View Post
Naruto has a lot of skill/technique. Then, he is a final boss material?

It is pretty silly for a main character to have 1 or 3 skills. It makes the fight boring to watch/read.

Ajimu, I disappointed with you. I can't believe that you actually said that.
I think she meant having a lot of skills as in like she herself does. I mean take Luffy as an example. His skill is just being rubber but he's advanced the skill really far to let him do a lot of things with it. Naruto has a couple of skills but he's raised those few skills to high levels. All his different Rasengan variations, shadow clones, etc.
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