High School DxD Light Novel - Character power-ups, match-ups, and ratings

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by Palmito

"Riser is able to match Issei in Balance Breaker"

It's not as if he's as strong as Issei, he's basically just an annoying opponent to beat as he keep regenerating. If he were able to return the same amount of damage he receives, he would be able to beat Issei without much trouble. I'd say he's more of a punching bag than fighting in the same level.

Issei(BxB)=Riser=Sairaorg(nase)

You just can't discount someone's abilities. That's like saying Issei and Vali aren't as strong as others because they have armor that is annoying to deal with. Riser having immortality is no exception.

And if having immortality was all that made him exceptional, then why isn't Ravel said to be as exceptional as Riser?

[XFire]

Originally Posted by The Infinite Dream

Yes hes a blood descendant of a maou.

Originally Posted by Parry999

How would loosing a few arms weaken his magic? It didn't for Azazel. It's actually more impressive he survived something Ophis snake couldn't.

Hey Siegfried. I certainly did get a lot of assistance from you people. You have my gratitude. Thanks to that, my wounds have healed. ……Though I did lose Ophis’s snake and my powers are lower than before.”

He lost both the snake and a portion of his original strength.

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Issei(BxB)=Riser=Sairaorg(nase)

You just can't discount someone's abilities. That's like saying Issei and Vali aren't as strong as others because they have armor that is annoying to deal with. Riser having immortality is no exception.

And if having immortality was all that made him exceptional, then why isn't Ravel said to be as exceptional as Riser?

1 - Raiser is not exceptional.

2 - What kind of dumb comparison is this? Because Riser is a punching bag better than normal that makes him as powerful as Issei? If he were as powerful as Issei he would be able to beat him without much trouble because while both would be giving the same amount of damage to each other, Raiser would regenerate and Issei would not. This does not happen because Raiser can not attack with the same power as Issei. The only reason why Riser is never annihilated instantly when he confronts Issei is because of his annoying regeneration, but he poses no threat to Issei.

3 - Do you think she is weaker? Raiser is at the level of a high-class devil, you think Ravel is weaker than that? She defeated evil dragons with ease and she trains with Koneko (Shirone mode). Certain things are so obvious that it is not necessary to be told. For example Riser not being in the same level of Issei (BxB) and Sairaorg.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by Palmito

1 - Raiser is not exceptional.

2 - What kind of dumb comparison is this? Because Riser is a punching bag better than normal that makes him as powerful as Issei? If he were as powerful as Issei he would be able to beat him without much trouble because while both would be giving the same amount of damage to each other, Raiser would regenerate and Issei would not. This does not happen because Raiser can not attack with the same power as Issei. The only reason why Riser is never annihilated instantly when he confronts Issei is because of his annoying regeneration, but he poses no threat to Issei.

3 - Do you think she is weaker? Raiser is at the level of a high-class devil, you think Ravel is weaker than that? She defeated evil dragons with ease and she trains with Koneko (Shirone mode). Certain things are so obvious that it is not necessary to be told. For example Riser not being in the same level of Issei (BxB) and Sairaorg.

Yet you provide no proof for your explanations.

Riser was always touted as exceptional. I don't remember what volume it was, but when Issei asked if Sairaorg was stronger than Riser, he said he wasn't sure just that Sairaorg would beat him in terms of spirit.

Riser literally won all of his Rating Games except two which h3le lost on purpose at the beginning of the series. Even when Issei went into his Balance Breaker in Volume 2, it seemed like he was coming even with Riser in terms of strength.

And in the DX1 short story with the rematch, Riser was more or less even with Issei in Balance Breaker and the match was pretty even until Issei went into CCQ.
When has Ravel been compared to Issei or Sairaorg in such a comparison?

[syzorst]

Originally Posted by Palmito

1 - Raiser is not exceptional.

2 - What kind of dumb comparison is this? Because Riser is a punching bag better than normal that makes him as powerful as Issei? If he were as powerful as Issei he would be able to beat him without much trouble because while both would be giving the same amount of damage to each other, Raiser would regenerate and Issei would not. This does not happen because Raiser can not attack with the same power as Issei. The only reason why Riser is never annihilated instantly when he confronts Issei is because of his annoying regeneration, but he poses no threat to Issei.

3 - Do you think she is weaker? Raiser is at the level of a high-class devil, you think Ravel is weaker than that? She defeated evil dragons with ease and she trains with Koneko (Shirone mode). Certain things are so obvious that it is not necessary to be told. For example Riser not being in the same level of Issei (BxB) and Sairaorg.

Actually Riser is stronger than Ravel. In DX1 he fought on par with BxB Issei to the point where Issei had to use CxC to beat him.

[Parry999]

Originally Posted by XFire

He lost both the snake and a portion of his original strength.

That doesn't say "orginal strength." He was on par with the first Baelzebub with the snake without his not.

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Yet you provide no proof for your explanations.

Riser was always touted as exceptional. I don't remember what volume it was, but when Issei asked if Sairaorg was stronger than Riser, he said he wasn't sure just that Sairaorg would beat him in terms of spirit.

Riser literally won all of his Rating Games except two which h3le lost on purpose at the beginning of the series. Even when Issei went into his Balance Breaker in Volume 2, it seemed like he was coming even with Riser in terms of strength.

And in the DX1 short story with the rematch, Riser was more or less even with Issei in Balance Breaker and the match was pretty even until Issei went into CCQ.
When has Ravel been compared to Issei or Sairaorg in such a comparison?

Sigh. Here we go again.

Raiser has never been said to be exceptional, and this is very obvious, even among the high-class devils he is average. You do not remember? Me neither. Are you sure this is not your head cannon?

If I'm not mistaken he won 6 RG before the cannon. Do you know how strong the peerages he faced were? No? Alright then. Oh you mean that incomplete BxB that Issei could only use for 10 seconds? OK. In that moment his BxB were way weaker than volume 10 BxB (that was the BxB that we see being able to keep up with Sairaorg).

In Dx1 they were fighting and Issei were not struggling while Riser had already regenerated several times, then to end the fight quickly Issei used CxC. Do you think this is be on the same level?

"BANG! With a loud noise, we exchanged blows into each other’s face! The shockwaves from our clash shook the entire building.

We both clashed with each other! Whenever Riser’s attack hit me, I could feel an intense heat, but I’ve already experienced this before! I can endure this! Due to him having the traits of a Phoenix, he will always regenerate no matter what happens. This is the troublesome part!"

There is not even a single mention of Issei needing to repair his armor. Raiser was barely damaging Issei. How can you think they are on the same level?

Who is comparing Ravel with Sairaorg and Issei? You're comparing her to Raiser and I'm showing you that he's a standard high-class devil, and so is she.

@syzorst: Issei did not have to use CxC to beat Raiser. He had the fight over control the entire time even without using his other abilities like Ascalon, Penetrate and the Wyverns. The only reason he used CxC was to end the fight quickly, otherwise he would have to keep getting Raiser to regenerate and lose stamina gradually and that would take a long time.

[godz]

Originally Posted by Palmito

Sigh. Here we go again.

Raiser has never been said to be exceptional, and this is very obvious, even among the high-class devils he is average. You do not remember? Me neither. Are you sure this is not your head cannon?

If I'm not mistaken he won 6 RG before the cannon. Do you know how strong the peerages he faced were? No? Alright then. Oh you mean that incomplete BxB that Issei could only use for 10 seconds? OK. In that moment his BxB were way weaker than volume 10 BxB (that was the BxB that we see being able to keep up with Sairaorg).

In Dx1 they were fighting and Issei were not struggling while Riser had already regenerated several times, then to end the fight quickly Issei used CxC. Do you think this is be on the same level?

"BANG! With a loud noise, we exchanged blows into each other’s face! The shockwaves from our clash shook the entire building.

We both clashed with each other! Whenever Riser’s attack hit me, I could feel an intense heat, but I’ve already experienced this before! I can endure this! Due to him having the traits of a Phoenix, he will always regenerate no matter what happens. This is the troublesome part!"

There is not even a single mention of Issei needing to repair his armor. Raiser was barely damaging Issei. How can you think they are on the same level?

Who is comparing Ravel with Sairaorg and Issei? You're comparing her to Raiser and I'm showing you that he's a standard high-class devil, and so is she.

@syzorst: Issei did not have to use CxC to beat Raiser. He had the fight over control the entire time even without using his other abilities like Ascalon, Penetrate and the Wyverns. The only reason he used CxC was to end the fight quickly, otherwise he would have to keep getting Raiser to regenerate and lose stamina gradually and that would take a long time.

Spoiler for dxd x1:

If it was the Riser before, he would have been enraged and insulted everyone, but it seems like he’s accepting the result.

Having muttered that, he took his top off. It seems like he’s wearing a fighting suit that’s close to being topless. On his back, wings made of flames appeared…. Seeing the flame, I was really surprised…. The flames were much more dense and larger than before!

I could feel the heat even when I was wearing the armor. If I get hit by that, I won’t be safe even if I am wearing an armor.

Riser said to Rias,

“…Rias, I’m sorry, but don’t interfere. I…. want to fight against him. I asked an Angel for help because I wanted this fight for myself…. Ravel also understood my feelings.”

…Ku!

….everybody was shocked after hearing Riser’s confession. Riser…. desires to fight me again right here. Having not allowed Rias to fight against him, he is now looking forward to our fight.

“I am interested in that guy over there and not you, Rias. Unless I defeat him, I can’t really say that I have overcome my fear of dragons!”

Realizing Riser’s intention, Rias sighed and replied,

“Even if you are immortal, it’s still reckless to fight Ise, who had a lot of near-death experience and also defeated strong foes…. You still want to fight him, right?”

Emitting an overwhelming aura, he walked towards us step by step.

“Rias, I… am fine with losing. I will use my defeat as a stepping stone to become stronger. Whatever the case, I realized that fighting those stronger than me has real meaning! Hyoudou Issei!”

Riser shouted while pointing at me!

“Feel the hellfire of the undying House of Phoenix with your body and burn up!”

Shouting such lines, Riser enveloped himself in fire and made his body into a Phoenix and flew into the sky! It feels like what happened in that engagement party previously is happening again!

He’s thinking of heading straight onto me in that form!

Seeing Riser I… felt something boiling inside me.

“…Rias, I ask of you, please don’t interfere! I… really want to fight Riser Phoenix right here!”

She nodded her head lightly to respect my wish. Getting her approval, I blasted myself towards the sky! To fight his hellfire head on!

“There’s no way I will be defeated by your stupid flame!!!!!”

I was shouting while boosting head on towards Riser!

BANG! With a loud noise, we exchanged blows into each other’s face! The shockwaves from our clash shook the entire building.

We both clashed with each other! Whenever Riser’s attack hit me, I could feel an intense heat, but I’ve already experienced this before! I can endure this! Due to him having the traits of a Phoenix, he will always regenerate no matter what happens. This is the troublesome part!

In the past, I was afraid of Riser and I also wanted to run away after having experienced the difference in strength against him. But it’s different now!

Riser shouted while aiming his punch at me!

“Are you scared?! No, you won’t be scared at all, Hyoudou Issei! You are a true warrior who fought countless times with your Boosted Gear! With or without your armor, you won’t die with my hellfire! Your true worth is much more than just your Boosted Gear!”

…….Ku!…… Shit! Are you an idiot?! What the hell are you saying?! Insult me like before! Treat me like an idiot! Getting praised by you… I want to cry now!!

Riser’s fist and feet are enveloped in flame and sharply hits my body! Watching the way he dodges my attacks, I realized! Riser learned hand-to-hand combat!

“I didn’t know that you learned those fighting skills!”

“Well, I’m also training lately! I invited Sairaorg Bael as my training partner! If it’s fistfight, I’m confident!”

Sairaorg-san is your training partner?! So that’s why I felt a bit of déjà vu when fighting him! If you fight against Sairaorg-san, you'd naturally prefer fistfight!

This is what a fight between men should be!

One by one, exchanging blows between the face, abdomen, legs and arms. It only has meaning if you put all your will into each punch and kick! My fist punched his face, and he landed a kick to my abdomen!

….I won’t hold back anymore!

“—I, who is about to awaken, am the Red Dragon Emperor who has discarded the principles of domination. Holding the infinite hopes and unbreakable dreams and walking the path of righteousness, I will become an Emperor of Crimson Dragon. And I will lead you to the path of Heaven, glowing in deep crimson light!”

[Cardinal Crimson Full Drive!!!]

As my armor turn crimson, Riser made a smile full of joy and excitement, enough to send shockwaves through his entire body.

“Here I goooooooooooo!”

My right fist swell! “Solid Impact Booster”! I will pierce through his flame in one punch!

[Boost Boost Boost Boost Boost Boost Boost Boost Boost Boost Boost Boost Boost Boost Boost!!]

With a loud voice, an enormous amount of the Dragon’s power is concentrated on my right fist!

[Solid Impact Booster!!]

Riser moved his flame from his back to put out a defensive barrier in front of him, but… My fist pierced through his flame and hit his body!

“Kuaaaaaaa”

Riser screamed while falling down the rooftop! Although he received a lot of damage, he staggered up! Regenerating himself with his flame, his eyes are still sparkling. It seems like he hasn’t given up yet.

Even if he is immortal, it seems like the damage received just then was quite critical as he is staggering. Even with his trait of immortality, his mind isn’t as such. My fist…. must have reached his mind.

“Ise, Riser!”

Although Rias shouted our names, Riser doesn’t seem like he can hear her. He laughed and shouted towards me,

“Hyoudou Issei! I might lose against you tens of times, no, hundreds of time! However, remember this! The lives of Devils are close to infinite! In that time, I will win against you! No, I don’t need 10,000 years! In a few years, I will burn you with the hellfire of Phoenix and turn you into ash!”

After re-igniting flames on his back, once again he flew into sky! After getting hit by my attack, his mind should have been exhausted, but he did not back off!

“Okay, I like that! I can easily understand that! Riser-san! You are becoming my rival! That’s awesome!”

I fought Riser once again! He was smiling!

“Here I go, Hyoudou Issei! Oooooooooooooooo!”

“I won’t lose! Ooooooooo!”

My fist covered in crimson aura and Riser’s fist covered in hellfire. Our fists clashed within the bounds of the game field.


After the fight, I heard from Akeno-san that Rias and Asia were exchanging remarks with each other.

“Asia. Guys are really…. Stupid.”

“Fufufu, but both of them look like they are enjoying themselves.”

“Yeah, I can’t believe it. Riser to target Ise… I never imagined it. But I’m a bit envious… only guys can understand this feeling.”

Talking to each other like this…

A few days after the Phoenix match…

We were victorious in that match. The fight between Riser and I also ended with my victory. The others had finished their fights before, but since I was concentrating on the fight against Riser, I couldn’t hear the announcer.

sometimes it's good to read the full volume and not only what is convenient, not to mention that now raiser will be in the team of his brother and can reveal a convenient power up that makes it stronger because it is a rival of issei and ichie does not forget to the rivals of Issei.

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by godz

Spoiler for dxd x1:

If it was the Riser before, he would have been enraged and insulted everyone, but it seems like he’s accepting the result.

Having muttered that, he took his top off. It seems like he’s wearing a fighting suit that’s close to being topless. On his back, wings made of flames appeared…. Seeing the flame, I was really surprised…. The flames were much more dense and larger than before!

I could feel the heat even when I was wearing the armor. If I get hit by that, I won’t be safe even if I am wearing an armor.

Riser said to Rias,

“…Rias, I’m sorry, but don’t interfere. I…. want to fight against him. I asked an Angel for help because I wanted this fight for myself…. Ravel also understood my feelings.”

…Ku!

….everybody was shocked after hearing Riser’s confession. Riser…. desires to fight me again right here. Having not allowed Rias to fight against him, he is now looking forward to our fight.

“I am interested in that guy over there and not you, Rias. Unless I defeat him, I can’t really say that I have overcome my fear of dragons!”

Realizing Riser’s intention, Rias sighed and replied,

“Even if you are immortal, it’s still reckless to fight Ise, who had a lot of near-death experience and also defeated strong foes…. You still want to fight him, right?”

Emitting an overwhelming aura, he walked towards us step by step.

“Rias, I… am fine with losing. I will use my defeat as a stepping stone to become stronger. Whatever the case, I realized that fighting those stronger than me has real meaning! Hyoudou Issei!”

Riser shouted while pointing at me!

“Feel the hellfire of the undying House of Phoenix with your body and burn up!”

Shouting such lines, Riser enveloped himself in fire and made his body into a Phoenix and flew into the sky! It feels like what happened in that engagement party previously is happening again!

He’s thinking of heading straight onto me in that form!

Seeing Riser I… felt something boiling inside me.

“…Rias, I ask of you, please don’t interfere! I… really want to fight Riser Phoenix right here!”

She nodded her head lightly to respect my wish. Getting her approval, I blasted myself towards the sky! To fight his hellfire head on!

“There’s no way I will be defeated by your stupid flame!!!!!”

I was shouting while boosting head on towards Riser!

BANG! With a loud noise, we exchanged blows into each other’s face! The shockwaves from our clash shook the entire building.

We both clashed with each other! Whenever Riser’s attack hit me, I could feel an intense heat, but I’ve already experienced this before! I can endure this! Due to him having the traits of a Phoenix, he will always regenerate no matter what happens. This is the troublesome part!

In the past, I was afraid of Riser and I also wanted to run away after having experienced the difference in strength against him. But it’s different now!

Riser shouted while aiming his punch at me!

“Are you scared?! No, you won’t be scared at all, Hyoudou Issei! You are a true warrior who fought countless times with your Boosted Gear! With or without your armor, you won’t die with my hellfire! Your true worth is much more than just your Boosted Gear!”

…….Ku!…… Shit! Are you an idiot?! What the hell are you saying?! Insult me like before! Treat me like an idiot! Getting praised by you… I want to cry now!!

Riser’s fist and feet are enveloped in flame and sharply hits my body! Watching the way he dodges my attacks, I realized! Riser learned hand-to-hand combat!

“I didn’t know that you learned those fighting skills!”

“Well, I’m also training lately! I invited Sairaorg Bael as my training partner! If it’s fistfight, I’m confident!”

Sairaorg-san is your training partner?! So that’s why I felt a bit of déjà vu when fighting him! If you fight against Sairaorg-san, you'd naturally prefer fistfight!

This is what a fight between men should be!

One by one, exchanging blows between the face, abdomen, legs and arms. It only has meaning if you put all your will into each punch and kick! My fist punched his face, and he landed a kick to my abdomen!

….I won’t hold back anymore!

“—I, who is about to awaken, am the Red Dragon Emperor who has discarded the principles of domination. Holding the infinite hopes and unbreakable dreams and walking the path of righteousness, I will become an Emperor of Crimson Dragon. And I will lead you to the path of Heaven, glowing in deep crimson light!”

[Cardinal Crimson Full Drive!!!]

As my armor turn crimson, Riser made a smile full of joy and excitement, enough to send shockwaves through his entire body.

“Here I goooooooooooo!”

My right fist swell! “Solid Impact Booster”! I will pierce through his flame in one punch!

[Boost Boost Boost Boost Boost Boost Boost Boost Boost Boost Boost Boost Boost Boost Boost!!]

With a loud voice, an enormous amount of the Dragon’s power is concentrated on my right fist!

[Solid Impact Booster!!]

Riser moved his flame from his back to put out a defensive barrier in front of him, but… My fist pierced through his flame and hit his body!

“Kuaaaaaaa”

Riser screamed while falling down the rooftop! Although he received a lot of damage, he staggered up! Regenerating himself with his flame, his eyes are still sparkling. It seems like he hasn’t given up yet.

Even if he is immortal, it seems like the damage received just then was quite critical as he is staggering. Even with his trait of immortality, his mind isn’t as such. My fist…. must have reached his mind.

“Ise, Riser!”

Although Rias shouted our names, Riser doesn’t seem like he can hear her. He laughed and shouted towards me,

“Hyoudou Issei! I might lose against you tens of times, no, hundreds of time! However, remember this! The lives of Devils are close to infinite! In that time, I will win against you! No, I don’t need 10,000 years! In a few years, I will burn you with the hellfire of Phoenix and turn you into ash!”

After re-igniting flames on his back, once again he flew into sky! After getting hit by my attack, his mind should have been exhausted, but he did not back off!

“Okay, I like that! I can easily understand that! Riser-san! You are becoming my rival! That’s awesome!”

I fought Riser once again! He was smiling!

“Here I go, Hyoudou Issei! Oooooooooooooooo!”

“I won’t lose! Ooooooooo!”

My fist covered in crimson aura and Riser’s fist covered in hellfire. Our fists clashed within the bounds of the game field.


After the fight, I heard from Akeno-san that Rias and Asia were exchanging remarks with each other.

“Asia. Guys are really…. Stupid.”

“Fufufu, but both of them look like they are enjoying themselves.”

“Yeah, I can’t believe it. Riser to target Ise… I never imagined it. But I’m a bit envious… only guys can understand this feeling.”

Talking to each other like this…

A few days after the Phoenix match…

We were victorious in that match. The fight between Riser and I also ended with my victory. The others had finished their fights before, but since I was concentrating on the fight against Riser, I couldn’t hear the announcer.

sometimes it's good to read the full volume and not only what is convenient, not to mention that now raiser will be in the team of his brother and can reveal a convenient power up that makes it stronger because it is a rival of issei and ichie does not forget to the rivals of Issei.

And how does that refute what I said? Issei did not have to rebuild his armor once, did not struggle in any moment, and have total control of the fight the entire time.

"If I get hit by that, I won’t be safe even if I am wearing an armor." - And then Issei is hit by these flames and nothing happens...

"sometimes it's good to read the full volume and not only what is convenient" - I think that you played yourself here fam.

"not to mention that now raiser will be in the team of his brother and can reveal a convenient power up that makes it stronger because it is a rival of issei and ichie does not forget to the rivals of Issei." - And how would a future power up (that you dont even know if its going to happen) make Riser as strong as Issei BxB right now? Do you know how to read right? Did you not understand that we are talking about the present, and not the future?

[godz]

Originally Posted by Palmito

And how does that refute what I said? Issei did not have to rebuild his armor once, did not struggle in any moment, and have total control of the fight the entire time.

"If I get hit by that, I won’t be safe even if I am wearing an armor." - And then Issei is hit by these flames and nothing happens...

"sometimes it's good to read the full volume and not only what is convenient" - I think that you played yourself here fam.

"not to mention that now raiser will be in the team of his brother and can reveal a convenient power up that makes it stronger because it is a rival of issei and ichie does not forget to the rivals of Issei." - And how would a future power up (that you dont even know if its going to happen) make Riser as strong as Issei BxB right now? Do you know how to read right? Did you not understand that we are talking about the present, and not the future?

That raiser is more powerful than the previous version that faced Issei and the same says that its flames if they hit them will not be safe (bxb) and the cxc is stronger than the volume 10 therefore raiser would be in the average of Ultimate demon or maybe a little more.

Character growth, simple.That you do not like raiser is your problem, but do not blind yourself to what you read.

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by godz

That raiser is more powerful than the previous version that faced Issei and the same says that its flames if they hit them will not be safe (bxb) and the cxc is stronger than the volume 10 therefore raiser would be in the average of Ultimate demon or maybe a little more.

Character growth, simple.

Oh My God, is one worse than the other.

"That you do not like raiser is your problem, but do not blind yourself to what you read." - LOL

[Parry999]

Riser and his brother are prodigies. Plus Riser started training after he came back from his depression. @Palmito man who beat Rias the pinnacle of high class and fight BxB Issei who stomped Kuroka and Diodora "average" wut?

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by Parry999

Riser and his brother are prodigies. Plus Riser started training after he came back from his depression. @Palmito man who beat Rias the pinnacle of high class and fight BxB Issei who stomped Kuroka and Diodora "average" wut?

One more who can not read? If so, stop right here. I do not have the patience to debate with people who can not read (and especially write in a decent way).

[Parry999]

Originally Posted by Palmito

One more who can not read? If so, stop right here. I do not have the patience to debate with people who can not read (and especially write in a decent way).

"Raiser has never been said to be exceptional, and this is very obvious, even among the high-class devils he is average." Man beat Rias and started training with Sairaorg. Man is in no way an average high class devil stop

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by Parry999

"Raiser has never been said to be exceptional, and this is very obvious, even among the high-class devils he is average." Man beat Rias and started training with Sairaorg. Man is in no way an average high class devil stop

sigh. I feel bad for you man, but dont worry, im not going to let you waste my time.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Palmito

Oh My God, is one worse than the other.

"That you do not like raiser is your problem, but do not blind yourself to what you read." - LOL

Originally Posted by Palmito

One more who can not read? If so, stop right here. I do not have the patience to debate with people who can not read (and especially write in a decent way).

Originally Posted by Palmito

sigh. I feel bad for you man, but dont worry, im not going to let you waste my time.

Are you deliberately being a jerk or are you just desperate now that you are cornered?

“Yes. They are basically invincible. Even if you attack them, their wounds will heal right away. Their flames won’t even leave a bone left. Eight wins and two losses. This is the record that Raiser has at the official “Rating Game”. He fought ten times and won eight matches. He lost two of the matches on purpose as kindness to one of the households he is close to. In reality he won all of his matches. He already became a candidate to obtain a title in the official game.”

Riser isn't an "average" high class devil. There was never once any indication that he was representative of the majority, and volume 2 constantly plays up how strong he is.

[Parry999]

“Well, I’m also training lately! I invited Sairaorg Bael as my training partner! If it’s fistfight, I’m confident!”

His aura when Issei first met him was comparable to Rias too.

One by one, exchanging blows between the face, abdomen, legs and arms. It only has meaning if you put all your will into each punch and kick! My fist punched his face, and he landed a kick to my abdomen!

….I won’t hold back anymore!

“—I, who is about to awaken, am the Red Dragon Emperor who has discarded the principles of domination. Holding the infinite hopes and unbreakable dreams and walking the path of righteousness, I will become an Emperor of Crimson Dragon. And I will lead you to the path of Heaven, glowing in deep crimson light!”

[Cardinal Crimson Full Drive!!!]

The idea he was ever average is false. Hell you could argue besides the business man brother the pheonex family is full of geniuses. Ravel a master Tactician and Ruval whose ultimate class in strength.

[B214]

Originally Posted by Parry999

How would loosing a few arms weaken his magic? It didn't for Azazel. It's actually more impressive he survived something Ophis snake couldn't.

Azazel wasn't on a verge of death like Shalba was after all.

“Vali, I received contact from the leaders. That guy, Shalba, is on the verge of death but survived.”

“I see, Bikou. Either way, Shalba rushed it. He was talking about resisting till the end, and our ancestors who were exiled by the current-Maou government rushed it too. – They destroyed themselves because they only acted with hatred.”

“……Shalba. I did receive a report but I never thought you were acting by yourself.”

“Hey Siegfried. I certainly did get a lot of assistance from you people. You have my gratitude. Thanks to that, my wounds have healed. ……Though I did lose Ophis’s snake and my powers are lower than before.”

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by XFire

Are you deliberately being a jerk or are you just desperate now that you are cornered?



Riser isn't an "average" high class devil. There was never once any indication that he was representative of the majority, and volume 2 constantly plays up how strong he is.

Im desperate man, how do you think I can counter such amazing arguments?

"man who beat Rias the pinnacle of high class and fight BxB Issei who stomped Kuroka and Diodora "average" wut?"

"Man beat Rias and started training with Sairaorg. Man is in no way an average high class devil stop"

"That raiser is more powerful than the previous version that faced Issei and the same says that its flames if they hit them will not be safe (bxb) and the cxc is stronger than the volume 10 therefore raiser would be in the average of Ultimate demon or maybe a little more."

Sorry, I was wrong. Riser defeated a teenager girl (the pinnacle of high class) that never trained herself, trained with Sairaorg to be able to fight the basic melee, and was defeated by Issei a few times. He is definitely not average, very few high-class devils could match such feats. About Raiser being as strong as Issei BxB, do I need to say anything else? If you think I'm being "cornered" here... then alright, maybe.


"Riser isn't an "average" high class devil. There was never once any indication that he was representative of the majority, and volume 2 constantly plays up how strong he is"

Wow, Volume 2 really shows how strong he is. He wins some RG against no-name characters and then got trashed the rest of the series. No chance that this guy is average. You are right.

[Lucidrago]

Well we could say that nothing proved Sairaorg was above average accept that he defeated his younger brother who doesn't even have combat experience, defeated some no-named high-class devils, and defeated Zephrydor who was the weakest of the 6 rookie kings competing in the Young Devils Tournament. Not exceptional at all.

Anyone that's able to hold their own against Issei in Balance Breaker is pretty strong. Those that are able to match and come equal to him in that form are something else. Issei in Balance Breaker is a pretty good measuring point for judging a certain character's strength. Even if it's just a sparring match, being able to go up against Issei in BxB is extraordinary in itself.