Valkyria Chronicles - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

It makes them feel big.

And hopes to find equally minded too. Or make a few undecided others drop it as well.

[Sassarai]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

It makes them feel big.

Guys, important announcement to make, I am not going to watch the VC OVAs I repeat not going to watch them. I know, I know, you're all disappointed in me but I just don't feel like it.



Ok now I gotta go do this for every series that I've dropped or will not watch. This almost makes me feel as big as giving a rep.

[KariOhki]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

I think they wasted too much time wagging through other plots instead of focusing on the principal ones because now it seems they are just gonna bulldoze through it.

Yeah, the first 16 episodes are pretty draggy, usually with 1-2 battle eps followed by 1-2 eps at the base. And by "battle" ep I mean like...there'd maybe be 5 minutes of fighting. And then ever since 17 it's been more drama than anything (18 could count as a "base ep" but because of what happened in 17...yeah)

[Tak]

Originally, I expected something different from Valkyria, and definitely not what we are presented with now.

I expected an adaption heavy with strategy, because that was the game. The emphasis being how to survive against numerous odds utilizing little more than courage and familiarity (of Gallia) on your side. Anybody who played the game would know, you spend countless hours attempting to outflank Imperial forces, exploiting shortcuts, assaulting gaps, and then disappear into the midst of night before the Imps ever knew what hit 'em (ok, not quite in that order). In this setup, respite was a reward.

Instead, we get this. A happy war story in the vein of a high-school drama, where characters spent more time baking bread and hanging clothes than cleaning their rifles (hell, have we seen them actually clean their rifles?). Battles last within the time-frame of 5 minutes, while the strategies employed here were pathetic even to an amateur. Ultimately, victories were declared by commanders shouting charge, while missing a lot of process in between. Never mind the laughable portrayals of political intrigue in the anime. Look, we are talking about a overwhelming invasion of Imperial forces, and you'd ground Platoon 7 due to personal reasons? Sure, General Damon was an asshole in both game and anime, but in the game, he was not an idiot. He knew when to respond and where to dedicate resources!

So what did this anime accomplish until now? By dumbing down the characters and forcing drastic changes, it generated a plothole so big you can fire 120mm shells at it and not miss even if you fuck up the trajectory.

Hell, if this was the backdrop I had to deal with as a player of the original, Gallia would have been conquered in days!

- Tak

[kujoe]

True.

I think it's sad, that for some, the anime would be the first experience to this wonderful cast of characters and setting. One can argue that the anime and the game are two different species, but I think the game simply offers more even within the area of interpersonal drama—and it doesn't even need a made up love triangle to do that. The often sudden or brief turn of events in the anime inadvertently affects the development of the character themselves, as if they too have to either compensate for and adapt to the odd pacing while ironically setting it at the same time. The whole show somewhat feels like a mess or lacks focus.

Sure, at the end of the day Valkyria Chronicles is still a JSRPG that doesn't dwell too heavily on dark overtones of war and politics, but I can't help but feel it's been dumbed down even further, and I hope that the anime wouldn't be the one leaving the lasting impression of what this story is really about.


And I haven't forgotten. Killing off Vyse is unforgivable... the bastards.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by kujoe

And I haven't forgotten. Killing off Vyse is unforgivable... the bastards.

They better not be making anything on Skies of Arcadia, then.

- Tak

[SwiftStrike]

so sad...and crazy at the same time

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Tak

I expected an adaption heavy with strategy, because that was the game. The emphasis being how to survive against numerous odds utilizing little more than courage and familiarity (of Gallia) on your side. Anybody who played the game would know, you spend countless hours attempting to outflank Imperial forces, exploiting shortcuts, assaulting gaps, and then disappear into the midst of night before the Imps ever knew what hit 'em (ok, not quite in that order). In this setup, respite was a reward.

Flanking? What flanking? I just send in wave after wave of men/woman, clogging the imperial guns with dead bodies. Doesn't take long to achieve victory through that and there's tons of soldiers in the reserves to replace the losses.

Instead, we get this. A happy war story in the vein of a high-school drama, where characters spent more time baking bread and hanging clothes than cleaning their rifles (hell, have we seen them actually clean their rifles?).

You mean spend more time doing logistics support.... I mean seriously, I could just cry. I don't see the purpose of Damon's jealousy either, Damon wasn't that messed up in the game. He pretty much just threw the militia into the fire and THEN took the credit afterwards (which is the smarter way of doing things really)

Yeah, the first 16 episodes are pretty draggy, usually with 1-2 battle eps followed by 1-2 eps at the base. And by "battle" ep I mean like...there'd maybe be 5 minutes of fighting. And then ever since 17 it's been more drama than anything (18 could count as a "base ep" but because of what happened in 17...yeah)

At first I thought they were doing it for the purpose of showing how time can slow during wartime (when everything's peaceful) but it's really not working.....

I mean I wouldn't be surprised if some guy was watching the show and then be later like, "The hell? There's a war going on?"

Guys, important announcement to make, I am not going to watch the VC OVAs I repeat not going to watch them. I know, I know, you're all disappointed in me but I just don't feel like it.

Ohhh the humanity.

[Sassarai]

Originally Posted by Tak

Instead, we get this. A happy war story in the vein of a high-school drama, where characters spent more time baking bread and hanging clothes than cleaning their rifles (hell, have we seen them actually clean their rifles?).

I love warm fuzzy happy love war stories! It's just Fabio had to go and ruined everything.

1)Got too big of a role for a side character.
2) Too perfect for a side character.
3)Discovers Alicia is a Valkyria too easily.
4) Shot Alicia without much knowledge of how to awaken her.


See, if Fabio was gone, the story would of been pretty good! No need to waste 6-7 eps for the love triangle as well!

[Death Header]

Instead, we get this. A happy war story in the vein of a high-school drama, where characters spent more time baking bread and hanging clothes than cleaning their rifles (hell, have we seen them actually clean their rifles?). Battles last within the time-frame of 5 minutes, while the strategies employed here were pathetic even to an amateur. Ultimately, victories were declared by commanders shouting charge, while missing a lot of process in between. Never mind the laughable portrayals of political intrigue in the anime. Look, we are talking about a overwhelming invasion of Imperial forces, and you'd ground Platoon 7 due to personal reasons? Sure, General Damon was an asshole in both game and anime, but in the game, he was not an idiot. He knew when to respond and where to dedicate resources!

But you have to keep in mind though, since Valkyria Chronicles had so much content when it came to the actual storyline, covering everything from the game in detail could take more than 26 episodes; heck, I think that it would take somewhere like 40-50 episodes in order to cover most things from the game. Not that making an anime 40-50 episodes is a bad thing (FMA did it, and it was pretty awesome), but I guess that most anime have settled into the whole "26 episodes" thing.

Also, the characters in this series could have been portrayed as much better. Isara's death was one of the most important point in the progress of the game, and the representation done by the show completely ruined the moment imo.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by Death Header

But you have to keep in mind though, since Valkyria Chronicles had so much content when it came to the actual storyline, covering everything from the game in detail could take more than 26 episodes; heck, I think that it would take somewhere like 40-50 episodes in order to cover most things from the game. Not that making an anime 40-50 episodes is a bad thing (FMA did it, and it was pretty awesome), but I guess that most anime have settled into the whole "26 episodes" thing.

Also, the characters in this series could have been portrayed as much better. Isara's death was one of the most important point in the progress of the game, and the representation done by the show completely ruined the moment imo.

26 episodes would have been enough if they had actually focused on the story, instead of adding crap like this love triangle.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

26 episodes would have been enough if they had actually focused on the story, instead of adding crap like this love triangle.

The love triangle wasted a good 1/3 of the anime, while siphoning moments off episodes that actually mattered. Hell, the LT would have been fine had it actually a meaningful impact on the characters. It didn't, except to distract the views away from the story when precious 30 minuets per episode could have been focused on actual plot and character development!

Quite frankly, I thought the existence of the LT was utterly unnecessary and unneeded, but thats just one aspect of this series' mishandling.

- Tak

[kalbron]

Pretty much every mission in the game could have been covered decently with 1 to 1.5 episodes worth of content.

There are 20 missions.

Therefore it is easily possible. Here, let's see what we can do!

C00 : Prologue: Gallia, to Arms!
C01 : Chapter 1: In Defense of Bruhl
C02 : Chapter 2: Escape from Bruhl

The first three chapters could have been compressed into 1, maybe 1 and a half episodes easily. The last half episode could be showing the formation of Squad 7.
Tally = 2 Episodes

C03 : Chapter 3: Vasel Urban Warfare
RP1 : Report: Ellet Embedded
C04 : Chapter 4: Operation Cloudburst

The Vassel Bridge could be handled in a single episode jam-packed with action.
Tally = 3 Episodes

C05 : Chapter 5: The Kloden Wildwood

Kloden deserves its own episode because of the introduction of Jaeger.
Tally = 4 Episodes

RP2 : Report: Largo's Passion
RP3 : Report: A Taste of Home

We could have a fun little side episode, perhaps with Alicia baking bread while the Edy Detachment + Largo go saving the VEG-TA-BULS!
Tally = 5 Episodes

C06 : Chapter 6: A Desert Encounter
C07 : Chapter 7: The Battle at Barious


Barious would be a two episode special, with the first doing the assault on the guard forces, and meeting Max and Selvaria in the ruins. The second being the battle with the Batomys.
Tally = 7 Episodes

C08 : Chapter 8: The Woodland Snare

Lots of character development for Alicia x Welkin here. One episode.
Tally = 8 Episodes

C09 : Chapter 9: A Midsummer Incident

Cordelia being kidnapped is important enough with all the side info about the VC world. One episode.
Tally = 9 Episodes

C10 : Chapter 10: Liberation of Fouzen
RP7 : Report: War Without Weapons


Fouzen is also worth a fair bit. One and a half episodes devoted to it, then at the end of the second episode have War Without Weapons to round out Rosie's continuing development.
Tally = 11 Episodes

RP8 : Report: Flower of the Battlefield
RP6 : Report: What Lies Beyond Hate

Have the former lead into the latter. Flower of the Battlefield is meant to be later on, but these two reports could easily feed off one another given that the hostages of the latter could be kidnapped from the former. This is the last of the detours before we hit high gear towards the finale.
Tally = 12 Episodes

C11 : Chapter 11: The Marberry Shore
C12 : Chapter 12: The Fight for Bruhl


Two episodes for these linked parts.
Tally = 14 Episodes

After this there are 7 missions and 12 episodes left. More than enough to do justice to the climactic portion of the game. Anything not included could be DVD specials.

They could have done something like this... unfortunately they chose to do what they have done.

[Manji Midou]

@ Sassarai...
Regarding your sig, that looks more like sheryl singing "what about my star" seeing as she is the old hag of the love triangle

[Darknemo2000]

Kalbron, you should have been director, then maybe even Michiko Yokote would not have ruined it.

One thing is why Kalbron can make such simplistic planing that works is that he is a fan of the series. While being a fan not always works, it has the advantages - I am pretty sure Kalbron and many of VC fanplayers know VC better than the actual director and the script writer of the anime.

Do not delude yourself into thinking that director or script writer study the series inside out - sure they know what the are working with, but only on a professional level, which is enough to start working but usually not enough to make a good mix of original and series based material (unless director is a real talent, which is obviously not the case in VC).

Adding such idiotic thing like LT does not help specially when it steals so much of screentime and adds nothing to character and plot development. While LT was a bad conception to begin with in VC, it could have still been done well if director and script writer would know the series 'inside-out' (Faldio's role in LT wold have been decreased a lot and make him more 'watch-from-far-away' character, but it wold have worked and would have reduced time wasted), instead we get a pack full of Faldio fanboyism (some directors/scripters are known to get attached to characters specially when the character is altered a lot to their taste) and bulldozing of the last capters due to time limits because of bad director's work.

[Arturro]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

...
Adding such idiotic thing like LT does not help specially when it steals so much of screentime and adds nothing to character and plot development. While LT was a bad conception to begin with in VC, it could have still been done well if director and script writer would know the series 'inside-out' (Faldio's role in LT wold have been decreased a lot and make him more 'watch-from-far-away' character, but it wold have worked and would have reduced time wasted), instead we get a pack full of Faldio fanboyism (some directors/scripters are known to get attached to characters specially when the character is altered a lot to their taste) and bulldozing of the last capters due to time limits because of bad director's work.

True.
Well made love triangle IMHO could be best part of this story, not worst. Faldio even could stay as a super faldio, but Welkin should be portrayed as a better (smarter) man, although socialy retarted. And most importantly since episode 5 it should be clearly shown that Alicia and Welkin are in mutual love, they are on path to be a couple soon. Faldio love had to be unrequited. I episode 20 Faldio should shoot Alicia cause of jealousy and sadness (after death of his friends), not because he suspected her to be Valkyria. That would make sense.
Also after Kloden Woods there should be episode or at least half of episode showing that members of Welkin squad, Alicia including, started to trust and admire Welkin. In anime there is no explanation why Alicia and squad memberst started to care about Welkin - time skip was only "explanation".
Portraying Damon and few other evil Galians as a morons is another flaw of this anime. It's common to show evil people as ugly and stupid in cartoons for small kids. IS VC a show for small kids? I've started to thinking it is...

[don_Durandal]

Originally Posted by Arturro

I episode 20 Faldio should shoot Alicia cause of jealousy and sadness (after death of his friends), not because he suspected her to be Valkyria. That would make sense.

No thanks, really.
Faldio should shoot Alicia purely out of rational logic.
An emotional Faldio is completely out of character. In the game story he's there as a counterweight to Welkin by going the path of "the ends justifies the means" without care for individuals, even those close to him. In the game it took him long researches, preparation and thinking until the point he shot Alicia.


Well in the anime they couldn't do that. They spent so much efforts and screen time turning Faldio into a perfect infallible Marie Sue superhero the only way they could make him shoot Alicia is by some out of character sudden mental breakdown.
Even with a pistol, even after loosing his whole platoon, he should have still shot Alicia with a straight face and not that exaggerate grimace. That is the kind of character he is; purely rational, calculating but for a greater patriotic sense.

[Neku]

Originally Posted by don_Durandal

Well in the anime they couldn't do that. They spent so much efforts and screen time turning Faldio into a perfect infallible Marie Sue superhero the only way they could make him shoot Alicia is by some out of character sudden mental breakdown.

Well.. that explains the reason for Ramal's existence; to die for the awakening of Gallia's Valkryia and rationalize Faldio's actions

[SoggySoyBean]

@ kalbron, that's a great layout, although Reports 7 & 8 are happening before the actual event they stem from :P War Without Weapons happens after Mulberry Shore, and Flower of the Battlefield after Naggiar? - I forgot the exact Chapter >.<

[Arturro]

@don_Durandal

So shooting a girl he loves is rational? Gambling life of beloved just on rumors and myths? God, keep me far away from people with such "rationality". As I've heard in game he shoot her too, but in game she was just his aquitance, not beloved.
His mental breakdown is also very convicing - till last episode he didn't care at all about casualities, as he prooved in episode about Darkscens concentration camp. Till episode 20 he cares only about well being of Alicia, he tried to protect very hard, but suddenly he become concerned about death of his subordinates, so he shoot his beloved. It doesn't proof Fabio went crazy, it prooves script writer is a moron.