Vinland Saga

[King Lycan]

Bjorn definitely surprised me I always wondered why he was so loyal to Askeladd.

[Dop]

I thought the background music in this week's episode was really good and fitted perfectly. I'm going to have to get the soundtrack album, aren't I!

[Wandering Soul]

Askeladd thanking Thors for his son seemed to be the wake-up call Thorfinn needed to realize how everything he has done since his father's death has been contrary to what Thors would have wanted. Avenging Thors at this point can't really make up for the deaths of all the people that had nothing to do with his death.

Young Askeladd and Thorfinn have their similarities, but two differences that stand out is that
A) Askeladd was not trying to balance out his quest for revenge with honor.
B) He actually had a plan for his life after getting revenge.

[TheForsaken]

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

B) He actually had a plan for his life after getting revenge.

Did he really?

He only had a plan about how to survive after killing his father.
He didn't have a plan about what to do with his life. After all, he ended up becoming exactly the man he hated.

Askeladd is much smarter than Thorfinn, no doubt about it. But sometimes, ignorance is bliss.
Thorfinn wasted 10 years of his life, without realizing he was a fool.
Askeladd wasted 40 years of his life, while fully aware that he was a fool.
Askeladd's life is much more miserable.

[Kanon]

This episode really shows how much killing Bjorn affected Askeladd. He normally would have wanted to keep Thorfinn as a useful tool, but he went out of his way to tell him what an idiot he's been and that he's been dancing in the palm of his hand the whole time.

[Frontier]

That was less of duel and more Askeladd pounding into Thorfinn's face just how severely outclassed he is .

I guess when you're descended from noble knight, or the noble knight, the brutal and savage fighting style of the vikings would leave a bad taste in your mouth. By comparison Thors was quick, clean, and efficient. No wonder Askeladd respected him .

So Askeladd's story was similar to Thorfinn's, at least to the extent that his main motivation was tied to revenge, except unlike Thorfinn Askeladd quickly achieved his revenge and got away with it. Not that it really proved fulfilling, but that's what revenge gets you...

Maybe Askeladd should chalk up his inexplicable and amazing skill with the sword as a child less to his father and more to being descended from King Arthur? That was a pretty flashy swordfight for a kid who'd never wielded one before. Another instance where Askeladd outclassed Thorfinn .

I wonder if it irks Askeladd to some extent that he actually resembles his father now. I can't see Askeladd without his beard, but maybe he should consider a shave ?

Poor naked lady. Whether she was the legal wife, a slave, or what, she was probably stuck sleeping with the chief and then murdered for being a witness .

Askeladd basically spells out for Thorfinn that his obsession with revenge led him to basically become Askeladd's dog, more or less, to the point where their duels were just a means of Askeladd to placate Thorfinn because he knew Thorfinn would never actually kill him. And then he thanks Thors for giving him his best attack dog. That's got to sting .

Maybe in another life Askeladd could've been a good king, but the life of a viking and his own sins have weighed him down and turned him into the thing he hated most. It's in Canute that he sees the potential for an individual who could answer his mother's prayers to Artorius .

Thorfinn's anguish at realizing he may have wasted his entire life on a quest for revenge...I mean, he brought it on himself, but it's tough to watch .

[Arya]

wow, awesome episode!! Askeladd was really pissed off. The flashback made it clearer why. I mean, he hoped for Thorfinn to learn, to grow, but he kept being stuck to his revenge obsession and nothing else. And the fact he was able to beat Thorfinn up bare hands is the sign of how much he did not improve in any front (but the mere fighting skills). With the last bit about thanking Thors I fear a bit he will switch in Canute style tbh.

The irony is that Askeladd took Thorfinn as his father took him by his side, with the difference that Askeladd knew (from himself) and so expected from him the same. So basically Thorfinn would have never killed him regardless. But at least he had gained some respect from the man.

Speaking of them as kids, they do share same similarities but Askeladd had it worse, while in the end Thorfinn had a happy and normal childhood life, short as it was. So for that reason probably Thorfinn is not that smart when it comes to life. He was an healthy and even pampered kid until the last moment when his father died (let himself being killed) so he never had to fight for gain something.

Canute even reverted back to the young canute in this moment. Both the boys were, well, just boys, captured by this magnetic figure. Not by chance Torkell was left out from this picture.

[Amarantine]

It’s fascinating how Askeladd had the same realization and awareness as Thors, that the warring world of the Vikings is an ugly and horrible place. They are great foils to one another, because despite this similar beginning, they ended up acting upon that realization in completely opposite ways. Thors chose to, as the old saying goes, be the change he wanted to see in the world. But Askeladd lacked the courage to do so, and instead simply conformed to the brutality of the world that he so despised. Instead of looking for a solution, he became a part of the problem. Instead of trying, like Thors, to change and improve things or at least himself, he ended up becoming exactly what he hated most: a cruel and ruthless Viking. And as his words to Canute show, he’s painfully aware of that, which is why Bjorn was spot-on when he said Askeladd hated even himself. He’s a miserable and tragic figure, and an incredibly complex and captivating character.

It's also clearer now why Askeladd was so mesmerized by Thors upon meeting him, and why he even asked him to become the leader of his band. Thors' manner of living showed that it was indeed possible to be noble and compassionate amidst a cold and harsh world where violence and brutality are commonplace. Amidst a sea of filthy vikings, Thors was the one beautiful man Askeladd found, with a nobility and grace befitting of the legends of Artorius. But clearly Askeladd has given up on reaching such a place himself, and feels he's probably more of a lost case than even Thorfinn, who has at least youth and time on his side. And Askeladd's harsh words to him at the end were clearly a means to try to get Thorfinn to finally wake up and stop wasting his life. Let's hope he listens for once.

Originally Posted by Kanon

This episode really shows how much killing Bjorn affected Askeladd.

Yeah, and the moment where it looks like he's going to kill Thorfinn and says grimly and sarcastically “I'm feeling damn good today" made it particularly clear that Thorfinn’s foolishness and inability to learn merely compounded a bitterness that was already present due to Bjorn’s death at his hand. It's definitely been an altogether crappy day for him.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Amarantine

It's also clearer now why Askeladd was so mesmerized by Thors upon meeting him, and why he even asked him to become the leader of his band. Thors' manner of living showed that it was indeed possible to be noble and compassionate amidst a cold and harsh world where violence and brutality are commonplace. Amidst a sea of filthy vikings, Thors was the one beautiful man Askeladd found, with a nobility and grace befitting of the legends of Artorius. But clearly Askeladd has given up on reaching such a place himself, and feels he's probably more of a lost case than even Thorfinn, who has at least youth and time on his side. And Askeladd's harsh words to him at the end were clearly a means to try to get Thorfinn to finally wake up and stop wasting his life. Let's hope he listens for once.

I feel like, as much as Askeladd has made sure to have Thorfinn dance to his little tune as Askeladd's perfect weapon, there have been a few times (including this episode) where he's tried to set Thorfinn straight or at least be straight with him enough to get Thorfinn to realize how much he's wasting his life.

Which I guess goes to show how complicated a person Askeladd is in that he would willingly use Thorfinn as much as he has but will still go to the trouble of spelling out the truth to him at certain points. Which also speaks to how complex his relationship with Thorfinn is.

[Amarantine]

Originally Posted by Frontier

I feel like, as much as Askeladd has made sure to have Thorfinn dance to his little tune as Askeladd's perfect weapon, there have been a few times (including this episode) where he's tried to set Thorfinn straight or at least be straight with him enough to get Thorfinn to realize how much he's wasting his life.

Which I guess goes to show how complicated a person Askeladd is in that he would willingly use Thorfinn as much as he has but will still go to the trouble of spelling out the truth to him at certain points. Which also speaks to how complex his relationship with Thorfinn is.

Yeah, I agree that this wasn't even the first time Askeladd tried to give Thorfinn a wake-up call, although he certainly did it in a fiercer and harsher manner than ever before, not only because of the bad timing of Bjorn's death but also because he's clearly fed up with Thorfinn's obstinacy and inability to learn at this point.

Sure, Askeladd is obviously not beneath using the kid to further his own ends if he's gonna make himself available to be used like that, but I don't think he gets any kicks out of seeing Thorfinn waste his life the way he has. More than anything, he seems disappointed that the son of Thors has become a single-minded fool utterly obsessed with and blinded by revenge, rather than a true warrior like his father, who was possibly the only man Askeladd ever respected.

[Guardian Enzo]

I agree, this was Askeladd again trying to pound some sense into Thorfinn before it's too late. But also letting off some steam in a moment of great personal irritation.

I actually think the biggest reason Askeladd was so unmade by Bjorn's death was the realization that this guy from the race of brutes he proudly says he despises was capable of harboring such strong feelings for him, and that he was incapable of reciprocating them. It was a harsh reminder to Askeladd of what sort of man he is.

[Jaden]

Thorfinn is learning, in the sense that he didn't fly into a rage immediately. Problem is that as soon as he starts using his head, he realizes he can't win, and then the fear sets in. And to be fair, Askeladd disarming himself is a pretty crazy move...he is just too good at that kind of manipulation.

Anyway for the viewers, the outcome of their duels is not really the interesting part. Sure, eventually Askeladd gets old and tired, Thorfinn gets stronger, and then he can win. The interesting part is, will he still insist on revenge once he matures and learns why his father had to die?

[Guardian Enzo]

Thorfinn could win now if he wasn't ascribing to some sort of warrior code - just murder Askeladd in his sleep. If their situations were reversed Askeladd would do it and feel satisfied to boot.

[Guardian Enzo]

Incidentally, there's an apparently semi-reliable twitter report that a S2 could be greenlit. And Yabuta's comments in a recent interview - along the lines of "well, at the time we didn't know if we'd be doing another season or not" - seemed to suggest something might be cooking.

[Forsaken_Infinity]

Originally Posted by Kanon

This episode really shows how much killing Bjorn affected Askeladd. He normally would have wanted to keep Thorfinn as a useful tool, but he went out of his way to tell him what an idiot he's been and that he's been dancing in the palm of his hand the whole time.

I think it's also that Askeladd seems to realize he's at his endgame and just kind of is done with it all. He seems to genuinely care for Thorfinn, so he's willing to give him the most important lesson he needs. I think he couldn't have hammered this lesson home even if he wanted to before as Thorfinn hadn't matured enough. By beating him to a pulp right after Thorfinn beat Thorkell in a duel, Askeladd shows in terms that even the revenge obsessed Thorfinn can understand that his quest has been a total failure through and through by every possible metric. Namedropping the awesome dad Thorfinn had after telling the story of his own bastard of a dad just highlights how much Thorfinn went down the wrong path even though he had a much better background than Askeladd and a much better chance at living a normal, peaceful life the way his dad would have wanted.

Of course, Askeladd is also clearly hating on himself a lot this episode and it's just coming out pouring now that the tensions have heightened between Bjorn's death, the King pointing out to Askeladd how his mom was a slave and his being unable to do anything about it and just the existential crisis getting to him as he gets older and older while the promised salvation seems nowhere in sight.

[Amarantine]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Thorfinn could win now if he wasn't ascribing to some sort of warrior code - just murder Askeladd in his sleep.

Well yes, Thorfinn could succeed in his revenge if he murdered Askeladd in his sleep... but would Askeladd have allowed kid Thorfinn to live and join his band and hang around him at night if he thought Thorfinn would do that? I doubt it. He allowed it because he knew Thorfinn wouldn't do that, meaning he didn't pose him any serious threat because Askeladd was confident he could always outwit him in a duel. But after he threw that in Thorfinn's face in this episode, who knows how that relationship might change now.

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Incidentally, there's an apparently semi-reliable twitter report that a S2 could be greenlit. And Yabuta's comments in a recent interview - along the lines of "well, at the time we didn't know if we'd be doing another season or not" - seemed to suggest something might be cooking.

Yeah, I saw that too. Fingers crossed for it being true. Would be kind of surprising since from what I've heard the BD projection number seems to be rather low, and manga sales don't seem to have been particularly boosted by the anime, but the ratings seem good for a late-night show at least. Would definitely love to see the next arc gloriously brought to life by Wit, even if it might be a harder sell to the generic public than this one.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Amarantine

Yeah, I saw that too. Fingers crossed for it being true. Would be kind of surprising since from what I've heard the BD projection number seems to be rather low, and manga sales don't seem to have been particularly boosted by the anime, but the ratings seem good for a late-night show at least. Would definitely love to see the next arc gloriously brought to life by Wit, even if it might be a harder sell to the generic public than this one.

What site are you currently using to track Stalker points? All the ways I've relied on have ceased to exist.

[devil_slayer]

Wasn't Throfin already aware of the nature of his relationship with Askland tho? Back in episode 10 Throfin did mention that he's aware that Askeladd is just using him but he plays along with it anyway because it gives him a chance to kill. Thorfinn main issue is the fact he refuses to kill Askeladd in any way other than an official duel.

Thorfinn became more and more stupid as the show went on somehow.

[Amarantine]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

What site are you currently using to track Stalker points? All the ways I've relied on have ceased to exist.

Well, as my "from what I've heard" alluded to, I don't have a source myself, it's just something I've read in posts from people in other forums. I'll try to see if I can get their source though.

Originally Posted by devil_slayer

Wasn't Throfin already aware of the nature of his relationship with Askland tho? Back in episode 10 Throfin did mention that he's aware that Askeladd is just using him but he plays along with it anyway because it gives him a chance to kill.

Yeah, he did. I immediately thought of that scene as well, and wondered whether the anime staff had overlooked it (because Thorfinn and Askeladd's last exchange in episode 22 was anime original). But I suppose having Askeladd spelling it out for him in the harsh terms he did after thoroughly destroying him in battle and then mentioning Thors (Thorfinn's number 1 trigger word) on top of that was simply impactful enough that it finally dawned on Thorfinn (at least to some degree) what a fool he's been. The anime clearly tried to make this a watershed moment for him, since in the manga he didn't have the strong reaction to Askeladd's speech he did here.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Amarantine

Well yes, Thorfinn could succeed in his revenge if he murdered Askeladd in his sleep... but would Askeladd have allowed kid Thorfinn to live and join his band and hang around him at night if he thought Thorfinn would do that? I doubt it. He allowed it because he knew Thorfinn wouldn't do that, meaning he didn't pose him any serious threat because Askeladd was confident he could always outwit him in a duel. But after he threw that in Thorfinn's face in this episode, who knows how that relationship might change now.

Yep. Thorfinn was in fact shown trying to murder Askeladd in his sleep when he was a kid. Of course, Askeladd fully expected it and was actually awake, and would have no doubt killed him right where he stood if he had attempted anything.