AnimeSuki Forums

Burner of Anime · 2006-07-20, 00:14

Ep3 LOL moment

Spoiler:

tritoch · 2006-07-20, 00:33

Yep, the sound was there for that reason.

Nomiya changed.. but if people paid attention to the last few episodes of the first season, Nomiya is really a nice guy. And ofcourse, these people that made this show knows it and for me, Nomiya never broke of character. He just grew up.

I would like everybody to put Morita's words to mind:
"Mayama, I understand that you think preciously of Yamada. But it might be Yamada who is growing up to be a weak person and is feeling stressed." I don't feel bad for Yamada, sometimes life is like that. I know I was like that, I grew up weak cause of the same reason Yamada has. Thankfully for both of us, we found someone that brought us to the next level... "level up!"

The "coming-of-age journey" for 2nd season is not about the transistion from college life to working life (that was last season). This season, the focus shifts into what we make of our relationships with other people. Its not all about romantic relationships but relationships with friends, coworkers and family. Right now this show is just laying the foundation of the characters' relationships. If you are up to date with the manga, all I'm saying will make sense.

You know whats better than watching Honey and Clover II?

Spoiler:

brightredglow · 2006-07-20, 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by arias

Excuse me? Do you think I remotely care about your emotional reaction? There's no call for you to demand anything from me as well, child.

My concern was that you misrepresented my comment, and you did. Whether you can acquire "complex and holistic" views is none of my concern -- you did not display such a capacity nor any such density in your post. Oh yeah, go on about your tirade about tact and manners.. I care.

arias, you are being presumptuous to think that I was referring to you and you only. There are a number of people who have pointed out that they are not too keen on Nomiya and they have valid reasons. Semper Malum, for example, has good reasons. They are gut reasons, but still valid.

My point was that even if those reasons are correct and valid, I still like Nomiya for much of the same reasons that Kaoru Chujo gave and that is why I specifically quoted her. For me, Nomiya has made an impact. His character, as well as the entire Fujiwara Design group, has made the H&C experience a richer one. That may not be your experience, but it is mine and when I posted, that is what I was sharing: my viewing experience of the show.

If you don't like Nomiya and you have higher standards and understanding, then go right ahead and share it. It is your perogative.

But as for me, I reserve the right, as does everyone else, to express myself. In this case, I wasn't being derogatory to anyone nor demanding that anyone see things my way. If that means I am incapable of a having a greater and deeper understanding of the show, then so be it because I am quite content that my understanding of H&C is this: I just like it. I don't have an intellectual reason as to why I like it except that it makes me smile, laugh and cry and not feel like I wasted my time.

If that is beneath your posting standards, then ignore my posts, pretend I don't exist and move on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wintermoon

I forgot to bring this up, and I have to ask—unless there's a technical glitch in the episode, Nomiya sounds like he's having two different threads of thought going on. There's a distinct difference in sound, and surely that's deliberate, right? He did seem contradictory during the monologue, wanting Ayu to be with him and at the same time just wanting to be there for her. Unless I'm missing something.

I caught that too. It was like an internal battle between the way he wants to act or what has worked in the past and the reality of the situation. I also thought the big clue of Nomiya being out of his depth is when he says that he doesn't know how to get in touch with a girl without a cell phone. The cell phone seems representative of what he is used to, but with Ayu, he has to readjust his way of doing things.

hoon · 2006-07-20, 01:58

Didn't think 2nd season could do it but I'm once again addicted to Honey & Clover, after rewatching the first season many many times, mind you.

brightredglow, don't pay any attention to arias. There are people who study anime plotlines like it's Shakesphere or the Bible and thinks that they know everything. In situation like these you just have to think "Woe is me, my opinion is somehow wrong and is negated by another opinion!

"

EclipseZeta · 2006-07-20, 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by wintermoon

I forgot to bring this up, and I have to ask—unless there's a technical glitch in the episode, Nomiya sounds like he's having two different threads of thought going on. There's a distinct difference in sound, and surely that's deliberate, right? He did seem contradictory during the monologue, wanting Ayu to be with him and at the same time just wanting to be there for her. Unless I'm missing something.

Nomiya is going through two different monologues in that scene. He'll say something from monologue 1, then he'll say something from monologue 2, then he'll continue with monologue 1, and so on. The difference in the sound is to differentiate between the two monologues. During that particular scene in the manga, one of the monologues appear within the frame while the other appear between the frames.

We tried to illustrate this fact in the sub by giving the subs for monologue 1 and monologue 2 different borders. I guess it wasn't obvious enough. ^^;

Also, for those of you saying that the unicorns have a sailor's tongue and such, the unicorns actually speak in yakuza slang. ゴラッッア！ lol.

Edit: sorry, I apparently can't stuff right today.

dxgarten · 2006-07-20, 13:36

Episode 04 screencaps and summary

Spoiler:

npal · 2006-07-20, 13:48

Oh well, Nomiya doesn't seem so bad after all

Lyannea · 2006-07-20, 16:57

Nomiya is a good boy. The first time I watched Honey and Clover, I thought Nomiya was boring and that everyone in the design office was as well. Probably because i cared more about Takemoto. But when I watched it for the second time, it was easy to see Nomiya cares almost right at the start. He finds Ayu interesting, yes. He sees it as a girl, yes and he wants to see her because he is curious of why Mayama wants to protect her so much...

But the time Ayu uses him to make Mayama run, he shows how much he cares. He makes her cry because he wants her to realise it hurts him. He does not explain it like that, but to me it is clear. If he did not care about Ayu, he wouldn't make her cry. I mean, what's the point of making a girl you want in your bed cry? So almost right at the start he shows he cares. And then, later in another episode, Ayu send him (with cellphone) a message with the help of Miwako. He is touched and embarrassed by that... So in the first season he did show he had good intention about her. He could have done a lot, but he did not abuse of her, of her confidence. He may be fighting with his normal careless self, but he changes. That's what is interesting in Nomiya. He tries to change. Not in the way Takemoto did, no one can beats Takemoto because he grew up so strong... But Nomiya is yet another char of Honey and Clover I like because he has to change.

When you think of it, this anime is all about that... Change or not change, grow up or not... and for what? for a person, for a passion?

Yea that's why this anime is so good. It brings up questions we all think once in our life.

physics223 · 2006-07-20, 17:13

I haven't had any experiences with women or whatnot; however, I really am terribly moved with the relationship between Rika and Mayama. Although some people think of it as boring, (I don't know why but) I can totally sympathize with Rika's unwillingness to love again. One falls so hard and hurts so badly whenever one feels that it was one's own fault that lead to the death of whom one truly loved. Despite not being in a relationship, I can feel for these characters, and their unrequited loves only serve to magnify the sheer realism of this series.

I REALLY think I'm going to cry again with episode four simply because there's my favorite couple in it trying to discover themselves and their love for each other. Judging from other people's comments (only garten, really), I think it's going to come out a really, really, really very good episode.

Potatochobit · 2006-07-20, 17:34

i dont like nomiya he is the non commitment type that breaks away soon as he is faced with any difficulties it seems. i dont like how they seem to portray tetsujin as special but all the other girls he dated in the past as not. i doubt he could change his personality just because she is younger than they were. I'm not saying he's a terrible guy but im not sure if he deserves to be with her until the commitment is there.

physics223 · 2006-07-20, 17:40

I think driving eighteen hours just to see the girl you truly like is commitment. Can you commit to that much sacrifice if you didn't truly and honestly like the girl you like? Would you feel pain discovering that she loves another person? The commitment is definitely there - to aid Yamada in growing up while also trying to console her (and almost wrecking himself in the process); that is commitment.

wintermoon · 2006-07-20, 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by EclipseZeta

Nomiya is going through two different monologues in that scene. He'll say something from monologue 1, then he'll say something from monologue 2, then he'll continue with monologue 1, and so on. The difference in the sound is to differentiate between the two monologues. During that particular scene in the manga, one of the monologues appear within the frame while the other appear between the frames.

We tried to illustrate this fact in the sub by giving the subs for monologue 1 and monologue 2 different borders. I guess it wasn't obvious enough. ^^;

Nah, my bad...I saw the raw first and thought something was amiss. Then watched the sub and just wanted to make sure I wasn't reading too much into the monologue(s). Thank you (and thanks to all of you who replied to my question!) for clarifying things.

Can I just say I love you guys at Solar for doing such a great job subbing this series!

Cal-Reflector · 2006-07-20, 18:28

It'd come as a shock to people who were here for season I, but I haven't been watching season 2. The reasons being:

1) I read the manga up to chapter 61, and am afraid of diminished returns on viewing pleasure
2) Events recently covered in anime, up to which has basically been impending and inevitable doom for the Shuu-Rika fan in me.

... Dammit Umino Chika!

Eventually I'll start watching it again, because it is H&C. *Sigh.........................*

Grifis · 2006-07-20, 19:15

It is only natural for the audience to jump to conclusion and assume that Nomiya is this or that type of guy due to first impressions. Truth is the first impressions weren't even all accurate (to begin with) due to the fact that the audience could only see him through Mayama's as well his colleagues' eyes. I think it's about time the audience should let go their first impressions of Nomiya and start to see other sides of him as the story progresses as reveals him as a whole.

brightredglow · 2006-07-21, 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal-Reflector

It'd come as a shock to people who were here for season I, but I haven't been watching season 2. The reasons being:

1) I read the manga up to chapter 61, and am afraid of diminished returns on viewing pleasure
2) Events recently covered in anime, up to which has basically been impending and inevitable doom for the Shuu-Rika fan in me.

... Dammit Umino Chika!

Eventually I'll start watching it again, because it is H&C. *Sigh.........................*

I can sympathize. Bleach sort of did that to me. I can't find any relief in either the manga or anime for that so I've been forced to find other things to fill the void.

Luckily, H&C (and a few other series) came along.

Like physics mentioned, I'm one of those people who find the Mayama/Rika pairing a little boring although I have to say that even when I label it "boring", I'm not being accurate.

There are times when I like Mayama and times when I don't. His persistence is to be admired but at the same time, the realist in me sees his behavior as being potentially smothering so I run hot and cold with him.

On the other side of the pairing is Rika. I had no real opinion of her from the first season, but this season, she is really being fleshed out. Her mourning is so palpable that I hurt for her. And Harada, in both Shuu's and Rika's flashbacks, has such a presence that I too feel bad that he's gone.

That said, my lukewarm feelings for the Mayama/Rika pairing might be shaded by the fact that I too have a not-so-secret yen for Shuu/Rika. As much as I understand Shuu's bond with Hagu, I find the relationship unsatisfying and I want something more for Shuu than to be Hagu's protector/benefactor.

But in life and anime you don't always get what you want and that is why I find watching H&C a bittersweet joy.

sevenheaven7 · 2006-07-21, 03:10

I hope the two main characters end up together...

Cal-Reflector · 2006-07-21, 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by sevenheaven7

I hope the two main characters end up together...

And by that of course you're referring to the REAL main charactesr, that is, Shinobu Morita and Yamada Ayu?

In which case, yes, I hope the two real main characters do end up together. *Chuckle* It is a far-fetched hope, but oh what a hope.

npal · 2006-07-21, 09:48

^ Second that. A couple for laughs

The way I see it though, they'll either keep Ayu single or pair her with Nomiya... Oh well, Morita would still be more fun

physics223 · 2006-07-21, 09:59

'Woooh ... wakare no shunkan wa yami wo tsutatte,' is definitely deserved by everyone in this show - the epiphanic moment where they'll come out free from all the uncertainty, all the darkness and the loneliness of their relationships is what I definitely hope for. Koko ni Iru Koto was a definitely good choice.

(I can't get that song out of my head.)

MrProphet · 2006-07-21, 10:57

Oh, shucks, episode 4 started a bit sad and moody, but ended up just as powerful as the last one.

Spoiler:

In other words, at this point I am of a strong belief that Hachikuro can do no wrong.

Next episode continues the Nomiya/Ayu story. That couple seems to be shaping more clearly up as well.

2006-07-20, 00:14	Link #221
Burner of Anime Illegal Additives Join Date: Jun 2004	Ep3 LOL moment Spoiler: Ayu having a processor overload from the confession The unicorn legion as her champions of purity makes a close second. Nomiya's pretty smart though. He nearly missed the window of opportunity to say what he feels in himself but somehow kept focus long enough. Getting Yamazaki to stall the girl probably helped in this. Despite the earlier playboy portrayal, I like what he did because it's what a guy with real bricks does. He identifies himself and makes his intention known. Chickens don't get married anyway

2006-07-20, 00:33	Link #222
tritoch 神 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Chi-town	Yep, the sound was there for that reason. Nomiya changed.. but if people paid attention to the last few episodes of the first season, Nomiya is really a nice guy. And ofcourse, these people that made this show knows it and for me, Nomiya never broke of character. He just grew up. I would like everybody to put Morita's words to mind: "Mayama, I understand that you think preciously of Yamada. But it might be Yamada who is growing up to be a weak person and is feeling stressed." I don't feel bad for Yamada, sometimes life is like that. I know I was like that, I grew up weak cause of the same reason Yamada has. Thankfully for both of us, we found someone that brought us to the next level... "level up!" The "coming-of-age journey" for 2nd season is not about the transistion from college life to working life (that was last season). This season, the focus shifts into what we make of our relationships with other people. Its not all about romantic relationships but relationships with friends, coworkers and family. Right now this show is just laying the foundation of the characters' relationships. If you are up to date with the manga, all I'm saying will make sense. You know whats better than watching Honey and Clover II? Spoiler: Watching it in high definition! =)

2006-07-20, 13:36	Link #226
dxgarten Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006	Episode 04 screencaps and summary Spoiler: While Shuuji has nightmares of Rika trying to join Harada in the afterlife, Mayama and Rika takes a trip together to Sapporo and ends up sleeping in the same room. I have to admit that I was shocked to see Rika ended up shacking up with Mayama again. I'm not sure again if she was ready for it or was just feeling vulnerable.

2006-07-20, 13:48	Link #227
npal I desire Tomorrow! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: As far away from reality as possible Age: 41	Oh well, Nomiya doesn't seem so bad after all __________________

2006-07-20, 17:13	Link #229
physics223 In the Tatami Galaxy ↓ Join Date: Feb 2006	I haven't had any experiences with women or whatnot; however, I really am terribly moved with the relationship between Rika and Mayama. Although some people think of it as boring, (I don't know why but) I can totally sympathize with Rika's unwillingness to love again. One falls so hard and hurts so badly whenever one feels that it was one's own fault that lead to the death of whom one truly loved. Despite not being in a relationship, I can feel for these characters, and their unrequited loves only serve to magnify the sheer realism of this series. I REALLY think I'm going to cry again with episode four simply because there's my favorite couple in it trying to discover themselves and their love for each other. Judging from other people's comments (only garten, really), I think it's going to come out a really, really, really very good episode. __________________ anime\|otaku - hypotheses, analyses, and musings on The Tatami Galaxy \|\| The REAL first handheld console with color!

2006-07-20, 01:58	Link #224
hoon 7ON Join Date: Dec 2005	Didn't think 2nd season could do it but I'm once again addicted to Honey & Clover, after rewatching the first season many many times, mind you. brightredglow, don't pay any attention to arias. There are people who study anime plotlines like it's Shakesphere or the Bible and thinks that they know everything. In situation like these you just have to think "Woe is me, my opinion is somehow wrong and is negated by another opinion! "

2006-07-20, 16:57	Link #228
Lyannea Member Join Date: May 2006	Nomiya is a good boy. The first time I watched Honey and Clover, I thought Nomiya was boring and that everyone in the design office was as well. Probably because i cared more about Takemoto. But when I watched it for the second time, it was easy to see Nomiya cares almost right at the start. He finds Ayu interesting, yes. He sees it as a girl, yes and he wants to see her because he is curious of why Mayama wants to protect her so much... But the time Ayu uses him to make Mayama run, he shows how much he cares. He makes her cry because he wants her to realise it hurts him. He does not explain it like that, but to me it is clear. If he did not care about Ayu, he wouldn't make her cry. I mean, what's the point of making a girl you want in your bed cry? So almost right at the start he shows he cares. And then, later in another episode, Ayu send him (with cellphone) a message with the help of Miwako. He is touched and embarrassed by that... So in the first season he did show he had good intention about her. He could have done a lot, but he did not abuse of her, of her confidence. He may be fighting with his normal careless self, but he changes. That's what is interesting in Nomiya. He tries to change. Not in the way Takemoto did, no one can beats Takemoto because he grew up so strong... But Nomiya is yet another char of Honey and Clover I like because he has to change. When you think of it, this anime is all about that... Change or not change, grow up or not... and for what? for a person, for a passion? Yea that's why this anime is so good. It brings up questions we all think once in our life.

2006-07-20, 17:34	Link #230
Potatochobit Certified Organic Join Date: Dec 2005	i dont like nomiya he is the non commitment type that breaks away soon as he is faced with any difficulties it seems. i dont like how they seem to portray tetsujin as special but all the other girls he dated in the past as not. i doubt he could change his personality just because she is younger than they were. I'm not saying he's a terrible guy but im not sure if he deserves to be with her until the commitment is there.

2006-07-20, 17:40	Link #231
physics223 In the Tatami Galaxy ↓ Join Date: Feb 2006	I think driving eighteen hours just to see the girl you truly like is commitment. Can you commit to that much sacrifice if you didn't truly and honestly like the girl you like? Would you feel pain discovering that she loves another person? The commitment is definitely there - to aid Yamada in growing up while also trying to console her (and almost wrecking himself in the process); that is commitment. __________________ anime\|otaku - hypotheses, analyses, and musings on The Tatami Galaxy \|\| The REAL first handheld console with color! Last edited by physics223; 2006-07-20 at 17:50.

2006-07-20, 18:28	Link #233
Cal-Reflector Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	It'd come as a shock to people who were here for season I, but I haven't been watching season 2. The reasons being: 1) I read the manga up to chapter 61, and am afraid of diminished returns on viewing pleasure 2) Events recently covered in anime, up to which has basically been impending and inevitable doom for the Shuu-Rika fan in me. ... Dammit Umino Chika! Eventually I'll start watching it again, because it is H&C. Sigh......................... __________________

2006-07-20, 19:15	Link #234
Grifis Eternal Dreamer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Caladan	It is only natural for the audience to jump to conclusion and assume that Nomiya is this or that type of guy due to first impressions. Truth is the first impressions weren't even all accurate (to begin with) due to the fact that the audience could only see him through Mayama's as well his colleagues' eyes. I think it's about time the audience should let go their first impressions of Nomiya and start to see other sides of him as the story progresses as reveals him as a whole.

2006-07-21, 03:10	Link #236
sevenheaven7 Member Join Date: Jun 2006	I hope the two main characters end up together...

2006-07-21, 09:48	Link #238
npal I desire Tomorrow! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: As far away from reality as possible Age: 41	^ Second that. A couple for laughs The way I see it though, they'll either keep Ayu single or pair her with Nomiya... Oh well, Morita would still be more fun __________________

2006-07-21, 09:59	Link #239
physics223 In the Tatami Galaxy ↓ Join Date: Feb 2006	'Woooh ... wakare no shunkan wa yami wo tsutatte,' is definitely deserved by everyone in this show - the epiphanic moment where they'll come out free from all the uncertainty, all the darkness and the loneliness of their relationships is what I definitely hope for. Koko ni Iru Koto was a definitely good choice. (I can't get that song out of my head.) __________________ anime\|otaku - hypotheses, analyses, and musings on The Tatami Galaxy \|\| The REAL first handheld console with color!

2006-07-21, 10:57	Link #240
MrProphet The Commissar Vanishes Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Tallinn, Estonia Age: 41	Oh, shucks, episode 4 started a bit sad and moody, but ended up just as powerful as the last one. Spoiler: And Mayama has certainly hit the jackpot. I am not trying to be dirty, mind you, Mayama literally had a vision of winning the jackpot when Rika broke the news to him. 8) Drunk chibi-Rika from Shuuji's flashback was cuter than words can describe and it is always amazing seeing younger Rika to contrast her with the somber, pale beautiful woman we know. How events can change a person... Come to think of it, Hagu isn't much different from what Rika was back then. And the ending was amazing. Far be it for me to drool over sex (come on, guys, you know that's not the point of the whole thing!), but Mayama's monologue has elevated him to new hights in my estimation. The direction was superb: as soon as Mayama started speaking in that serious voice of his, we heard the powerful, major sounds of Spitz's Honoho. Talk about perfect timing! The song really fit what Mayama had to say and, more importantly, how he said it. Mayama is usually so gooey and uncommiting about everything that has to do with women, but sometimes he musters this amazing courage and determination that change his voice completely. Remember the scene where he told Nomiya to buzz off in the first season? It was that kind of serious raw emotion once again. In other words, at this point I am of a strong belief that Hachikuro can do no wrong. Next episode continues the Nomiya/Ayu story. That couple seems to be shaping more clearly up as well.