2010-08-05, 15:58 | Link #4061 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Well I wouldn't cal it a "riddle", none of the stuff in Maria's books are exactly riddles like the epitaph. It's how Rosa said, they are not riddles they are like math problems.
The main difference is that there are no double entendres, you can trust what the description says and so on. However Battler decided to solve the cheese problem thinking about it as if it was a riddle, and that's how he got an answer different than what was written in the book. Beatrice is certainly the kind of person that would use riddles instead of logic problems, so we need think about this closed room case as if it was a riddle. PS: The guestroom was well defined if I remember correctly. It only covers the bathroom, the bedroom and the walk-in closet.
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2010-08-05, 16:00 | Link #4062 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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Well then, imagine the following:
We have no reliable perspective, therefore, eliminate all perspective-based scenes and look at the closed room strictly as a logic problem. In short, do what we've all been taught not to do over the course of 6 games and look only at the red. Done this way, Kaisos's answer pretty much works perfectly: The guestroom is inside the cousins' room. Hell, if you want, you can put the guestroom inside the cousins' room inside the next room over, and it doesn't even hurt Shkanon.
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2010-08-05, 16:01 | Link #4063 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Quote:
There's nothing mathematical about sticking a cup in another cup. You can only do that because the rules don't say you can't. While this is the answer printed in the book, it relies entirely on out-of-the-box thinking. It's a riddle. Yes, that's the guestroom. The cousins' room would cover all of that and more. |
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2010-08-05, 16:01 | Link #4064 | |
Artist
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yesterday!
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Quote:
The definition of "guestroom" changed from being the inside of that room to being the rest of mansion except that room (or maybe simply the corridor). That would allow the chain to still be set to the "guestroom" and for Kanon not to exist in it anymore. |
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2010-08-05, 16:02 | Link #4065 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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But I insist, there's Knox8
The cup riddle isn't good enough as a hint. If a room inside a room like that existed there should be a hint about that. Quote:
The trick of the cheese however is actually impossible, because the cheese would break in reality.
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2010-08-05, 16:03 | Link #4066 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Quote:
The "cousins room" backgrounds are shown to have two beds on them, but not four. On these backgrounds, the beds stand next to a "living room" area which contains a coffee table, a dresser and three chairs. To contain four cousins, four beds would be needed. In hotels, which everyone assumes the guesthouse to be, it is not uncommon to have two two-bed rooms next to each other connected by a door between them, which would produce a single room with two entry doors, divided by a wall with a third door in it. Considering that two of the cousins are girls and two are boys, this is only natural for otherwise quite Victorian sensibilities of the Ushiromiya main family. ...wait. Huh?! But then the door of the next room over could lead into the cousins room again through the intermediary door, wouldn't it?
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2010-08-05, 16:03 | Link #4067 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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Quote:
He also said that many people had found the key, so I doubt it's something that we've never thought of before.
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2010-08-05, 16:04 | Link #4068 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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What defines "good enough" to you, though? The cups and coins clue is there. That makes it at least something a solution could rely on, as it is a clue that has been presented. It may not be a good or detailed clue, but Knox doesn't say that.
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2010-08-05, 16:09 | Link #4072 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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Assuming this solution, the "key" could be something as simple as "the situation perceived and interpreted by the detective or a reliable perspective is not necessarily true simply because the perspective was reliable."
I've mentioned before that many of the closed rooms are "closed" only because Battler thinks they are, or makes an assumption (such as that people in a closed room are dead BEFORE the closed room is broken open). Since he's the protagonist, he makes assumptions. The same can be said of the ep5 knock. If there was no knock, the solution is easy. We make the assumption that because Lambda tells us so many things about what the knock wasn't, that means the knock was; that is, we assume there was a knock because she told us all the ways the knock could not have happened, leaving us to draw the conclusion that there exists a way in which the knock did happen. But she doesn't really mean that.Then I would still draw mostly the same conclusions, since you speculate on things that aren't presented?
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2010-08-05, 16:10 | Link #4074 | |||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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2010-08-05, 16:13 | Link #4075 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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Quote:
So, it has absolutely nothing to do with one trick that solves everything. That doesn't mean there isn't one, but it's not what Ryuukishi is saying here.
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2010-08-05, 16:16 | Link #4076 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Quote:
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2010-08-05, 16:16 | Link #4077 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Are you totally sure? Because I see it slightly different, it looks to me that Ryuukishi is talking about specific hints revealed in episode6, and not "all the hints so far including EP6".
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2010-08-05, 16:19 | Link #4078 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Quote:
A "clue" is more specific for something that regards the setting.
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