Macross Delta - Episode 24 Discussion / Poll

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Dash_Hunter

Berger helped Xaos, but is it just me or did they changed his voice actor?

VA went on medical leave.

[Mistyclear]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

VA went on medical leave.

Is he alright now??

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by Dash_Hunter

Ok, I understand keeping the VF-22 and even repair it to be a reminder of what happened, but having it fully loaded? come on! but hey, thanks to that Arad finally did something again, and it just took him 18 episodes.

Oh yes, I will totally give said dude responsible for this stupidity a damn fruit basket even if he's dead because damn if it isn't stupid. And oh god, not only is it loaded but it's real ammo, not duds; which is funnier.

Windermere are not big on brains on the little things, I guess.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Maybe Gramia took it for secret weekend joyrides?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by charles883

Here my theory on final battle.

Spoiler for Final battle:

Turn out Miikumo awaken super weapon. Problem was that in the past it went rogue and most likely able to mind controlled whole galaxy. Problem was that it ALSO can mind controlled Windermere or worse ABSORB THEIR LIFEFORCE SO QUICKLY THAT THEY WILL DIE IN minute through their rune. I wonder how Roid react on their super weapon turn out killing them and most likely Source of their short lifespan. It already first hint on Cassime when the also somehow get mind controlled and show Cassim start to crystalize when Heintz activate ruin

I like it. It fits what we already know and don't require anyone to have watched Macross Zero.

[Dash_Hunter]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

VA went on medical leave.

Really? hopefully he'll be alright soon.

[Mistyclear]

The song when they jumped that was Ichido dake no koi nara instrumental right?



Edit: Wright he's got to be happy in the afterlife, after all even though he's long since dead and gone his plane (used for the bombing 7 years ago killing many) was used to protect his child.

[Triple_R]

I gave in to the temptation to watch the raw this week.

I'll say this much - Yeah, I'm pretty much with Vallen on Windermere now. More in spoiler space below.

Spoiler for Episode 24 spoilers:

I'm not sure what was said during this show trial, but it almost doesn't matter. What matters most is the results of that trial. And the results reflect extremely poorly on Windermere.

Windermere's leadership, and its Aerial Knights, are monsters. They're despicable.

I've defended Heinz before, but not now. Child or not, if he doesn't realize how evil his actions are here, then he's a monster himself.

Thinking more on it - What has Windermere's overall impact on the rest of the universe been? Have they contributed anything of worth? What has their net impact been?

We know the horrors they have inflicted on nearby inhabited worlds, through Var and simple conquest. We know at least some of the pain and suffering they have wrought through their warmongering.

Say what you will about NUN, but from everything I've heard and read, at least NUN has uplifted other peoples. NUN has technologically enriched various peoples.

Aside from strife and death, what has Windermere contributed? Fold quartz and apples? That's of some value, I suppose, but there are certainly other sources in the universe for these resources.

Has Windermere contributed anything positive economically, technologically, culturally, or diplomatically?

Windermere's greatest contribution to the rest of the universe is arguably Freyja Wion herself. A widely beloved singer with likely a massive fandom, and someone who has sung to heal those afflicted with var. And Windermere came very close to executing her, possibly the one Windermerean that enthusiastically embraced the rest of the universe and contributed positively to the lives of other peoples'.

Windermere has become like a blight on the universe.

I would shed no tears if Windermere was completely obliterated, as I can think of few fictional worlds more deserving of a visit from the Death Star. In fact, this may even be for the best for Freyja Wion herself, to fully break free from this horribly backwards planet that has treated her terribly.

I hope Makina pulls through, and I hope that, at the very least, Windermere's leadership is made to pay for its barbaric brutality.

I'll have more to say after I watch the subs.

[Mistyclear]

I have a question.... What in the world happened to the twins?? They kinda just disappeared... Are they still chasing after Makina and Reina?? If so I wouldn't trust them with a tracking mission, after all random sniper A did a better job than them.

[foxbox360]

Something tell me Winderman is going Democracy after it got nuke again by Mikumo power.

[Matts]

@Triple_R you forgot to list the poisonwater. But that's pretty much it, yeah. They also had no trouble adapting Nuns tech. Maybe the conflict started because the taxe on apples was too high or something.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I gave in to the temptation to watch the raw this week.

I'll say this much - Yeah, I'm pretty much with Vallen on Windermere now. More in spoiler space below.

Spoiler for Episode 24 spoilers:

I'm not sure what was said during this show trial, but it almost doesn't matter. What matters most is the results of that trial. And the results reflect extremely poorly on Windermere.

Windermere's leadership, and its Aerial Knights, are monsters. They're despicable.

I've defended Heinz before, but not now. Child or not, if he doesn't realize how evil his actions are here, then he's a monster himself.

Thinking more on it - What has Windermere's overall impact on the rest of the universe been? Have they contributed anything of worth? What has their net impact been?

We know the horrors they have inflicted on nearby inhabited worlds, through Var and simple conquest. We know at least some of the pain and suffering they have wrought through their warmongering.

Say what you will about NUN, but from everything I've heard and read, at least NUN has uplifted other peoples. NUN has technologically enriched various peoples.

Aside from strife and death, what has Windermere contributed? Fold quartz and apples? That's of some value, I suppose, but there are certainly other sources in the universe for these resources.

Has Windermere contributed anything positive economically, technologically, culturally, or diplomatically?

Windermere's greatest contribution to the rest of the universe is arguably Freyja Wion herself. A widely beloved singer with likely a massive fandom, and someone who has sung to heal those afflicted with var. And Windermere came very close to executing her, possibly the one Windermerean that enthusiastically embraced the rest of the universe and contributed positively to the lives of other peoples'.

Windermere has become like a blight on the universe.

I would shed no tears if Windermere was completely obliterated, as I can think of few fictional worlds more deserving of a visit from the Death Star. In fact, this may even be for the best for Freyja Wion herself, to fully break free from this horribly backwards planet that has treated her terribly.

I hope Makina pulls through, and I hope that, at the very least, Windermere's leadership is made to pay for its barbaric brutality.

I'll have more to say after I watch the subs.

Spoiler for Keith manga:

The Aerial Knights grudgingly contributed to the mutual defense treaty with the NUN. They fought Lost Zentradi which was a threat to other worlds. However they didn't appreciate cooperating as it was protecting other worlds. Then when negotiations for Fold Quartz harvesting fell through Gramia recalled all forces back to Windermere to start the independence war.
NUNS isn't dumb to ascertain the reason why Windermere created its own military is that to intimidate the NUN on Fold Quartz harvesting rights. Which is the reason for sending them on missions outside of Windermere. Which creates further resentment as Aerial Knights die on other battlefields away from home.

While Windermere is sitting on a gold mine the NUN has reason against Fold Quartz proliferation as it is a vital component for Dimension Eaters. For Windermere it is a means to economically uplift themselves as they are on a Fold Fault region preventing development.

They are still a third rate power as they are still an agrarian society. Depending on the Epsilon Foundation for military technology.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Spoiler for Keith manga:

The Aerial Knights grudgingly contributed to the mutual defense treaty with the NUN. They fought Lost Zentradi which was a threat to other worlds. However they didn't appreciate cooperating as it was protecting other worlds. Then when negotiations for Fold Quartz harvesting fell through Gramia recalled all forces back to Windermere to start the independence war.
NUNS isn't dumb to ascertain the reason why Windermere created its own military is that to intimidate the NUN on Fold Quartz harvesting rights. Which is the reason for sending them on missions outside of Windermere. Which creates further resentment as Aerial Knights die on other battlefields away from home.

While Windermere is sitting on a gold mine the NUN has reason against Fold Quartz proliferation as it is a vital component for Dimension Eaters. For Windermere it is a means to economically uplift themselves as they are on a Fold Fault region preventing development.

They are still a third rate power as they are still an agrarian society. Depending on the Epsilon Foundation for military technology.

Thanks for the information.

Spoiler for Windermere:

Knowing this information again drags me into where NUNS desired dominance over Windermere. Which, of course, once again drags me into believing Gramia had a meaningful reason for establishing dominance of his own over NUNS (and/or independence for other civilizations).

The NUNS don't personally care for the civilizations of those who join their so-called "peace treaty" and only care about all profits or benefits that will be gained from joining those nations. It's something which constantly bugged me in Frontier, wherein Frontier is a colony ship from Earth and sends a distress signal to NUNS during the Vajra conflict and is not aided at all (in fact, ships around their location arrive in the movies). The NUNS exist solely to serve as a face for mankind and is (most of the time) all show and no guns on the surface. They'll fight in wars only if it'll benefit them. Which is something II reveals hard; a big piece of II focuses on NUNS withholding information from everyone about their enemy.

Of course, I don't believe Windermere is justified in how this is going down (and I'll not even come close to defending where the leaders have lost their minds now); but I do, on some level, sympathize with Gramia for his desire for Windermere and of independence from the NUNS. The reason I sympathize with him is because our (USA) government is gradually becoming more strict and dominating (especially where data is concerned) and less privacy is available; so I can see where he initially gained a desire for independence; in fact, I can sympathize with all those who participated in the Independence War. Again, it's not justifying actions; I sympathize on the level that I know how it feels to dominated by others and desire freedom of your rights and land.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

No one has any problem with Windermere fighting an Independence war; the problem here, is this they already WON that war, and this 2nd war isn't about Independence but about dominating others.

[foxbox360]

After the king died, everything went to hell on windermere. The NUN were ass hole but that bomb made windermere into bigger asshole, two wrongs can not make a right.

[Beqa]

It's not about control, it's about revenge, Gramia himself said in the first chapters when he spoke with Heinz.

The war began with Gramia and not, not everything went to hell because he died. In fact according to the last will of Gramia continuous as it should. No matter if Roid is lying about this, why ?, Well because we never heard the will of Gramia and until I hear it, the only official version is the one that gave Roid, like it or not, goes very well with the character that was Gramia in the years following independence.

Spoiler for Frejya chapter 24:

Regarding the trial, I do not understand complaints. Frejya is a traitor and was judged as such. Morally she did the right thing by refusing to war initiated by Windermere, but upon returning to the planet she accepts the death penalty.

And sorry for my bad english u_u

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by HirouKeimou

Thanks for the information.

Spoiler for Windermere:

Knowing this information again drags me into where NUNS desired dominance over Windermere. Which, of course, once again drags me into believing Gramia had a meaningful reason for establishing dominance of his own over NUNS (and/or independence for other civilizations).

The NUNS don't personally care for the civilizations of those who join their so-called "peace treaty" and only care about all profits or benefits that will be gained from joining those nations. It's something which constantly bugged me in Frontier, wherein Frontier is a colony ship from Earth and sends a distress signal to NUNS during the Vajra conflict and is not aided at all (in fact, ships around their location arrive in the movies). The NUNS exist solely to serve as a face for mankind and is (most of the time) all show and no guns on the surface. They'll fight in wars only if it'll benefit them. Which is something II reveals hard; a big piece of II focuses on NUNS withholding information from everyone about their enemy.

Of course, I don't believe Windermere is justified in how this is going down (and I'll not even come close to defending where the leaders have lost their minds now); but I do, on some level, sympathize with Gramia for his desire for Windermere and of independence from the NUNS. The reason I sympathize with him is because our (USA) government is gradually becoming more strict and dominating (especially where data is concerned) and less privacy is available; so I can see where he initially gained a desire for independence; in fact, I can sympathize with all those who participated in the Independence War. Again, it's not justifying actions; I sympathize on the level that I know how it feels to dominated by others and desire freedom of your rights and land.

Spoiler for On Frontier:

Watch Frontier again. Frontier government had the opportunity to ask the NUN for help in rescuing the ailing fleet but didn't as it means the mission was a failure and Frontier as a state dissolved. They opted instead to invade the Vajra homeworld to save themselves and profit at the same time. SMS mutinied as they knew Leon killed the president and was in cahoots with Galaxy. SMS sent a report to the NUN but by the time they'd respond it would be too late because of Fold lag and the NUN parliament would have to deliberate. In the movie continuity the report made it in time and the response was swift.

The NUN's position on Fold Quartz is understandable as they don't want the proliferation of Dimension Eaters that can destroy an entire planet. A hostile state Macross Galaxy already has it what else if some common terrorist gets hold of it.

Plus Windermere is known to associate itself with a war profiteer corporation with Anti-UN ties. Basically the NUN has little reason to trust Windermere not to make a mess of things. Their short lifespan doesn't really allow them to mature to sensible adults. That is Windermere's gripe ever since meeting with the Terrans as they feel inferior to other races despite being gifted with abilities.

[charles883]

Actually most of older Winderemere like Cassim okay to Voldor only and have better trading terms with NUNS. However this whole conquest was Roid idea. I wonder if Keith found out the danger of the weapon will finally make him help Chaos as he starting to doubt on Roid

[Beqa]

Actuallity the whole conquest was Gramia idea. Roid is fulfilling the last wish of Gramia.

Experiments for collective mind is Roid idea.

Gramia started this war in revenge and retribution for what was done by NUN

Spoiler for Roid & Mikumo:

Actually, I'm more curious to know what Roid said to Mikumo in the temple when she respond that she was not the singer of the stars. It sounds like Mikumo was coming for adn windermere, if she is a clone.

Or Roid is really crazy here, well more crazy.

[Mistyclear]

Originally Posted by charles883

Actually most of older Winderemere like Cassim okay to Voldor only and have better trading terms with NUNS. However this whole conquest was Roid idea. I wonder if Keith found out the danger of the weapon will finally make him help Chaos as he starting to doubt on Roid

Keith has long since moved past starting to doubt, it's just he doesn't move/act on it (for the sake of the plot of course).