[Manga] Chapter 507 Discussion

[Lunarskylar]

hmm now we get why kisame called madara the mizukage
but i wonder what happened to separate them, since kisame was working with akatsuki for a whileee and didn't know it was all madara's plan

and poorrrr yagura, so what the sharingan can controll all bijuu now? not just the kyuubi? i thought genjutsu couldn't work on a 'perfect host' like yagura

i guess shusui's eye is related in some way

[ZGoten]

Some people here said that Kisame died in a lame way, but to be honest, I really liked it. Sacrificing oneself in order to serve his comrades and superiors is exactly what shinobis are supposed to do, and we get far too few of what defines a ninja in this manga anyway. However if there aren't any changes coming up, meaning that neither Kisame and the scroll will make it to Madara, that sub arc really was a waste. I bet Zetsu is around thought, or something...

Anyway, I liked Gai's display of power. Now I have hope for Kakashi again. :O

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by Lunarskylar

so what the sharingan can controll all bijuu now? not just the kyuubi? i thought genjutsu couldn't work on a 'perfect host' like yagura

-That is actually a good point. I mean, how does a sharingan user control a perfect host like Yagura? I mean, by all rights it should be nigh impossible for a perfect host to be affected (at least easily) by genjutsu in general, regardless if they came from a sharingan user or not. This really needs an explaination.

-That aside, its nice to see some of Kisame's backstory. Chapter itself was good, though I really wish the whole "last roar" thing was completed with Kisame on the ground. We all know he's done for, no need to hide it from us. By the way, anyone think that Kisame bit his tongue off not to seal his words but to snap himself out of Aoba's technique?

[MartianMage]

meh didn't like the fight that much... and so much for the eight celestial gates being a "forbidden technique because it endangers your life" when gai just spammed it like it's nothing. In just 1 chapter gai >>>>>>>> kakashi. Kakashi blows ever since shippuden started.

[milan kyuubi]

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

-That is actually a good point. I mean, how does a sharingan user control a perfect host like Yagura? I mean, by all rights it should be nigh impossible for a perfect host to be affected (at least easily) by genjutsu in general, regardless if they came from a sharingan user or not. This really needs an explaination.

Maybe if this new body Madara is using somehow has the other eye from Shisui, that would explain how he can control a perfect host like Yagura.

Also didn't Yagura look like a kid in that flashback?

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

-That is actually a good point. I mean, how does a sharingan user control a perfect host like Yagura? I mean, by all rights it should be nigh impossible for a perfect host to be affected (at least easily) by genjutsu in general, regardless if they came from a sharingan user or not. This really needs an explaination.

Didn’t Sasuke used Genjutsu on Bee?

Either way, I don’t recall that it was stated anywhere that Sharigan could not put into a Genjutsu a perfect host, maybe I missed something.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

-That is actually a good point. I mean, how does a sharingan user control a perfect host like Yagura? I mean, by all rights it should be nigh impossible for a perfect host to be affected (at least easily) by genjutsu in general, regardless if they came from a sharingan user or not. This really needs an explaination.

Simple: Madara is using Shisui's other eye/Madara is Shisui . Then again, maybe Yagura was never in control of his Bijuu, rather the Bijuu was always in control, but Madara controlled the Bijuu? Whatever the case, and explanation will be provided later...

It is nice that we know for sure now that Madara wasn't actually a Mizukage. Don't know why Kishimoto couldn't actually make him one, but whatever...

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

-By the way, anyone think that Kisame bit his tongue off not to seal his words but to snap himself out of Aoba's technique?

Yes...thought that was obvious. The act was symbolic of Kisame's desire not to "spill the beans", but the process was clearly a means of forcing himself awake.

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

Also didn't Yagura look like a kid in that flashback?

Yagura has always looked like a kid...this is Kishimoto's way of denying us in semblance of understanding the timeline of Kiri...

[zaxthezax]

Originally Posted by ZGoten

Some people here said that Kisame died in a lame way, but to be honest, I really liked it. Sacrificing oneself in order to serve his comrades and superiors is exactly what shinobis are supposed to do, and we get far too few of what defines a ninja in this manga anyway.

Did I miss something?
In my opinion Kisame looks kinda healthy on the last panel (besides having the tongue bitten off).

[carcanclaw]

Madara gave Kisame's life purpose, so I can see why he would sacrifice himself like this. Its a shame that he couldn't just bite his tongue a little instead of tearing the whole thing off, but whatever.

Unless sharks have regenerating tongues, this is the end for him. Glad he got a little flashback though, since I've always thought he was pretty kewl. :]

[tkdtiger]

So I guess this is Kisame's last stand...It was a pretty good chapter after reading it.

[Kafriel]

Its a shame that he couldn't just bite his tongue a little instead of tearing the whole thing off, but whatever.

Must be the shark teeth

In my opinion Kisame looks kinda healthy on the last panel (besides having the tongue bitten off)

Heavy shock from the excruciating pain of having your neurons cut off, as well as lots of bleeding. Now I know that this is manga and characters can survive a shitload of bleeding, but tongue chop basically leads to death, which is why it is considered a suicide technique.

[Narutaro]

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

-That is actually a good point. I mean, how does a sharingan user control a perfect host like Yagura? I mean, by all rights it should be nigh impossible for a perfect host to be affected (at least easily) by genjutsu in general, regardless if they came from a sharingan user or not. This really needs an explaination.

that's pretty simple. first, Sharingan is just a tool, it's effectiveness vary according it's user. just because Sasuke's genjutsu fail on Killer Bee, doesnt mean other sharingan user will fail on a perfect host.

secondly, KB saying that genjutsu won't work on jinchuriki who can control it's bijuu is just KB's opinion, not absolute truth. it's no different than Neji and Gaara saying they have perfect defense, and we know what happened to those defense.

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by james0246

Simple: Madara is using Shisui's other eye/Madara is Shisui . Then again, maybe Yagura was never in control of his Bijuu, rather the Bijuu was always in control, but Madara controlled the Bijuu? Whatever the case, and explanation will be provided later...

It is nice that we know for sure now that Madara wasn't actually a Mizukage. Don't know why Kishimoto couldn't actually make him one, but whatever...

-I am more than willing to accept that Shisui's eyes/Shisui himself is involved but this begs me another question: why would Shisui allow one of his eyes to go to Danzou? Or, if Madara did steal one of Shisui's eyes, how did Danzou ever get past him to obtain one of the eyes before Madara could, considering how Madara teleports wherever the hell he wants? Sheesh, you answer one question and 2 more take its place .

-As for Madara's Mizukage status, I figure its just him trying to lay low and not be found out (he is a big time player considering his history). Though it probably wasn't much of a secret since Itachi found him without a problem. Must be the masks.

Originally Posted by Narutaro

that's pretty simple. first, Sharingan is just a tool, it's effectiveness vary according it's user. just because Sasuke's genjutsu fail on Killer Bee, doesnt mean other sharingan user will fail on a perfect host.

secondly, KB saying that genjutsu won't work on jinchuriki who can control it's bijuu is just KB's opinion, not absolute truth.

-While I would love to dispute the overall "hax-powers" of the Sharingan, I did remeber something rather curious that "may" answer this little question without involving eye-gouging. Does anyone else recall who Danzou said were the 4 people that could claim to be able to "tame and control" bijuu? He said those people were Killer Bee, Yagura, Hashirama (Shodaime Hokage) and Uchiha Madara. Now, Madara we know to be ancient and very proficient. So even if Yagura could command his bijuu, Madara could wrestle control away from him because its a battle between 2 people capable of controling the beast. And ergo, if Yagura was weaker than Madara then the control ultimately goes to the winner of the struggle. Hence, Madara gains command of both the sanbi and Yagura himself.

[Alchemist007]

Hmm, so I guess the 'canon-filler' 3 tails arc in Shippuuden was a different kid after all. I just thought they altered his look a little in the show from the big picture with them all. Guess I didn't see that forehead protector down there

[Shining Celebi]

This chapter just goes to show Guy is one of the strongest and smartest people in the series. Again.

He's trained his body so much he can open seven gates without any apparently disability. A single punch is basically a OHKO and the shockwave from it is apparently massive. Once again, he dominated Kisame.

But smarts. Kisame tried to move, get up, or whatever. Any other ninja would have let Kisame get up and make a long speech and come back with some trump card. But what does Guy do? He sees movement and beats the living crap out of Kisame before he can do anything. This isn't the first time the supposedly dumb Guy proved he was the only one with a brain. Look at the Kakashi/Kurenai/Asuma fight with Itachi. Guy is the only guy with the brains to not look into Itachi's eyes while keeping his eyes open. You'd think this would be obvious, but apparently Kurenai and Asuma are blathering morons (and Kakashi thinks too highly of himself.) Then we have the problem of those three going to fight two S-class criminals alone without telling anyone. Guy? He lets ANBU know what's going on.

Guy is basically the most underestimated guy ever.

[ShadowAssasin]

Ah, broken wood born of hatred. Kisame seems like he led a pretty interesting life, too bad we probably wont get to see much.

[james0246]

^Yeah, Gai/Guy really proved his worth in this chapter...to bad he is so unimportant that his proving his worth seems like a blow to the story Kishimoto has been telling since the beginning of Part II.

[zaxthezax]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Heavy shock from the excruciating pain of having your neurons cut off, as well as lots of bleeding. Now I know that this is manga and characters can survive a shitload of bleeding, but tongue chop basically leads to death, which is why it is considered a suicide technique.

After seeing Jiraiya run/jump around and fighting like crazy with a blown off arm i dont see the issue about a bitten of tongue. But I'm not a doctor and this is fiction so we may have to wait until next week to find out :P

(out of couriosity i just read about a case where a woman bit off the tongue of her boyfriend as revenge for cheating. he survived though. the tongue piece was about 3cm*5cm)

[lotus_lee]

I don't get it. Where does it show Kisame commiting suicide? I don't see him stabbing himself or anything. How does biting off one's tongue give instant death? He looked like he was breaking out of the wooden thing and is about to give it his all in one last try.

And so much for the Eight Gates putting one near death. Gai looks fine lol.

I feel like this chapter focused more on Madara than Kisame. We don't get to see much from the fight and they just jump straight to the point with their super jutsus. Lame fight unless Kisame still has more under his sleeve next chapter.

Finally, isn't the point of mind reading techniques to read the mind, so you don't need to receive answers verbally via the tongue?

[Shiryuu]

For a second there I thought Madara implanted Kisame with a suicide thing. I doubt he bit his tongue all the way. The tongue is pretty small, it could easily be regenerated with his chakra.