Mato Seihei no Slave

[Tenzen12]

Could it be that you just don't like battle mangas for being battle manga-like?

[MK-95-]

What I don't like are battle manga that are consistently inconsistent.

Look, we've all been there, done that. In most battle manga, it's expected to see a few asspulls, some inconsistencies here and there and PIS/CIS every now and then, but it's another matter entirely when the battles are almost always inconsistent.

Ik what I said, don't try to make it sound like I'm complaining for the sake of complaining.

[Tenzen12]

You complain about inconsequential example of power that will never matter in battle because it just make bigger breasts

As for AgK it's not any more inconsistent then Bleach, Naruto, Black Clover, Fairy tail and probably One Piece too (I didn't get into that one so I can't say for sure).

So yeah I certainly don't think you complain for valid reasons.

[MK-95-]

Y'know, there's this thing called an opinion. I'm pretty sure everyone's entitled to one. If you don't agree with me, that's fine. It's no skin off my back. However, when I see bullshit arguments, I'll call people out on it.

Inconsequential? Never matter? Well excuse me for questioning why she can't viably use an ability while also giving an explanation that the ability in question has a completely stupid effect when she uses it.

Sure, it ultimately served a purpose and was used as a throwaway to emphasize that different abilities have different drawbacks for her when she "learns" them, but when the drawbacks are as dumb as that was, you expect someone with a working brain to not question it? (I wonder what'll happen if she copies the loli's clairvoyance. Maybe she'll only be able see embarrassing moments in people's futures? With how dumb Shushu's ability turned out to be for her, this just might be the case, but go ahead, write that off as inconsequential too) [I'm obviously exaggerating, but you say some dumb things and I just had to call you out on it]

With all due respect, if you can't understand why I even bothered to question it in the first place or do understand, but write it off as inconsequential for whatever reason, then ignoring me altogether would've been a better decision for you and me both. It'd save us both a lot of time since we wouldn't be wasting each other's time like we are now by debating a topic we both know is going to end in a stalemate anyway like it usually does.

Lastly, One Piece is easily the most consistent battle shounen after Hunter x Hunter. I'll also throw in MHA in 3rd place. The only character who defies MHA's conventions is ironically Midoriya since OFA itself is kinda broken and therefore hard to consistently quantify tbh. Aside from him, most of the characters are pretty consistent and their development is handled appropriately. Naruto was mostly consistent up until the Pain arc. Things went to shit after that point. As for Bleach, BC and FT, I've nothing to say on the matter as those are indeed a mess when it comes to consistency.

You really have no idea what you're talking about if this is the best argument you can string together.

Anyway, I won't respond to the next reply as my posts are starting to veer off-topic. I've pretty much said all that I needed to say anyway.

[MK-95-]

I can appreciate the fact that the actual training itself was limited to a single chapter. This certainly didn't need to be drawn out and could've very well been accomplished in one chapter which was the case.

I'm also pretty sure that the sister's ability is Za Warudo!!! She even has an accompanying pose when she executes the technique. She low key probably reads a lot of JoJo. hahah

Lastly, MC can't really complain when the rewards are that good, now can he?

[wuhugm]

^That's Sailor Moon pose tho

[MK-95-]

You'll have to excuse me for not catching the SM reference. I didn't watch any of the series in the franchise and I basically don't know anything about SM.

So we're looking at a Sailor Moon and JoJo hybrid here? Interesting.

[Ramero]

Ch 12 is quite a bliss for a reward :3

[MK-95-]

Damn, the sister's ability is more OP than I thought. It's like Za Warudo!!! and Gold Experience Requiem joined together to create a hybrid Stand ability.

So far, the only observable drawback to using it seems like it's quite physically taxing on the user. Then again, that's a small price to pay considering that she more or less just undid any damage she would've taken from the "branding".

[kampfer91]

May be create scenario where she will take unavoidable hit regardless how many time she reset ?
Her ability is reset time but do her opponent still gonna do the same move .

[wuhugm]

I want to switch team

[MK-95-]

Originally Posted by kampfer91

May be create scenario where she will take unavoidable hit regardless how many time she reset ?
Her ability is reset time but do her opponent still gonna do the same move .

I'm assuming if she's up against an opponent who isn't familiar with her power, then when she resets time, they wouldn't know that she did, and therefore, they would repeat the same attack. However, since Himari knows how her ability works, once she noticed that she was tired (after using the ability), she changed their method of attack in the second loop.

I guess you can consider that another observable drawback, but as for how effective and useful it'll actually be, it depends on the strength/ability of her opponent. If they lack power sufficient enough to defeat her, then just changing their methods of attack for various loops won't really matter and at best, is only prolonging the inevitable.

[Tenzen12]

Well that itself isn't solution as she can't determine how many time it was used. So she could end repeating second loop multiple time.

[MK-95-]

You're not wrong, but the last thing you'd want is to have your opponent predicting your attack patterns or using a specific attack in a specific way against someone who can turn back time.

By changing the method of attack with each new loop, it adds some degree of unpredictability to their attacks. It may only be a temporary fix, but it's still effective nonetheless. The only way for it to be rendered completely ineffective is for the sister to continuously redo the loop and "experience" literally every possible attack they can throw at her and then begin the counterattack from there. Question is, can her stamina outlast theirs?

[Tenzen12]

I am saying there wouldn't be multiple attacks in first place. With every loop Himari would loose her memories, so she doesn't know which attacks were rewinded.

She can see her opponent is tired so she correctly conclude she can't attack in a way she intended use first. So logically use second... but if time got rewinded twice or thrice instead once, she get countered easily instead.

Unless Himari can determine number of loops were used, she can't make different decisions and will repeat herself.

1st loop - first attack,
2nd loop - second attack,
3rd loop - second attack (might get countered)
4rd loop - still second attack (might get countered)
5th loop - enemy looks really tired - thus third attack
6th loop - still third attack (might get countered)?

[MK-95-]

Ah, I see. Makes sense and I can accept that.

As the fight continues on, we'll see just how well Himari can react to and adapt to the sister's ability. Basically, she'd need to be always thinking 3-4 steps ahead for this strategy to be viable, but considering that her character isn't the intellectual/analytical type, that seems unlikely. All in all, you may be right on this one.

Speaking of characters who think 3-4 steps ahead, I'd like to see Jin from World Trigger fight the sister. Now that would be entertaining to see.

[Tenzen12]

Even greatest genius would be in same situation as long as he/she doesn't know number of loops or can't win in first two rounds.

It would be different if they had some kind of quantum based RNG though.

[MK-95-]

^Not necessarily. Let's create a hypothetical and for said hypothetical, we're assuming the opponent:

1. Knows about her ability beforehand.
2. Given that they had prep time, has prepared specific countermeasures and strategies because they are familiar with the nature of her ability.

Now that that's out of the way, We've established that they have a plan prepped beforehand and has prepared various methods of attack as a countermeasure. Considering that the opponent can tell when she uses her ability (she becomes visibly tired), even if they can't tell which loop they're currently on (could be 2nd or could be 10th for all they know), whenever they can confirm that they've entered or assume to have entered a new loop, even if they can't tell with absolute certainty, at the very least, they should use a different method of attack each time. That's the entire purpose of preparing a counter-strategy beforehand.

For example, an opponent with zero intel on the ability may repeat "pattern 1" over and over again because they have no idea what her ability is, but someone who's intimately familiar with the ability and has a counter-strategy prepped, can have 10 different attack patterns prepped in advance and every time they accurately deduce or assume that they're in a new loop, then they simply keep using different attack patterns.

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

I am saying there wouldn't be multiple attacks in first place. With every loop Himari would loose her memories, so she doesn't know which attacks were rewinded.

She can see her opponent is tired so she correctly conclude she can't attack in a way she intended use first. So logically use second... but if time got rewinded twice or thrice instead once, she get countered easily instead.

Unless Himari can determine number of loops were used, she can't make different decisions and will repeat herself.

1st loop - first attack,
2nd loop - second attack,
3rd loop - second attack (might get countered)
4rd loop - still second attack (might get countered)
5th loop - enemy looks really tired - thus third attack
6th loop - still third attack (might get countered)?

You're correct in saying that the opponent will have no memories of having used "pattern 2", but that's what planning and strategy is for. If they're thinking 3-4 steps ahead, then they should always assume or have taken into consideration that they may already be in the 3rd, 4th or Xth loop, even if they may only on the 2nd (in this specific scenario, it's better to always be thinking ahead, even if you're overthinking the situation. Since the ability you're up against is time manipulation, getting ahead of yourself is ideal in this case. It literally becomes a situation where you have to out-think yourself. Best example of this is Lelouch's rematch with Mao in chess in Code Geass).

i.e. It isn't as black and white as you're making it out to be. What makes you think that Himari will linearly and predictably cycle through all of her possible attack patterns one after the other? Nothing's stopping her from using "pattern 10" or "pattern 9" after realizing that "pattern 1" was undone. It may seem random to jump straight to "pattern 9" after just using "pattern 1", but that in itself is a viable strategy. If she feels like they've entered another loop, instead of using "pattern 9" this time, she assumes she's used it already and uses "pattern 4" instead. Rinse and repeat.

The obvious downside to this is that if you out-think yourself to the point that you're in doubt about whether you've exhausted all of your options or not, but that's exactly why I said that this particular strategy is reserved for intellectual/analytical-type characters as they'd be able to adjust and fine-tune as they go along. From what we've seen of Himari, we're given no reason to think that she'd be able to pull off a strategy as complex as this one.

[kampfer91]

The goal is try to wear her down , don't think she can keep revert time forever .

Either have many method of attacking her or make a single unavoidable strike that it is pointless to reset cus you gonna get hit anyways .

However , she got 2 others member back her up , so this gonna be very complex .

[mastermind3342]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

I want to switch team

What yotsuba doing here?