AnimeSuki Forums

LostSome · 2011-12-16, 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Nah, more like a battle of wits rathe than morality xD

We already know the very real possibility of Curren trying to manipulate Tohma into helping her to achieve a much bigger goal the point is how Tohma can fall for it or how Curren will play her "big sister" cards on him. As also the reactions from Hayate, Teana and S6 as a whole.

There's also the possibility Curren is planning the total anhilation of Vandin Corp. and it's operation so she wants to gather the biggest amount of strenght as possible.

Is that what it`s called ?

Actually, it`s a good point... Curren`s objective might be to play on Hayate and not Thoma directly.
If they try to restrain Thoma too much, his rebellious nature might kick in.

Tiresias · 2011-12-16, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostSome

Are we talking about the Hulks or TSAB ? I`m pretty sure Nanoha is the ugly part.

Never said press-ganging him into MS6 is a smart idea either.

He needs Shamal, that's for sure. But the trainings with Nanoha and Vita? Unless the TSAB holds universal conscription, that part was supposed to be optional. That Nanoha did it with a smile makes it eerie, TBH.

00-Raiser · 2011-12-16, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Yeah, but here it's: "They're bad people" -> "But they were nice to me" -> "A member of them also said they would have killed me if we'd met before" -> "Hmmmm"

It's called context. You're falling victim to the fundamental attribute error. Are they doing bad things because of some innate badness they have, or are they doing them because of external, situational factors?

LostSome · 2011-12-16, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiresias

Never said press-ganging him into MS6 is a smart idea either.

He needs Shamal, that's for sure. But the trainings with Nanoha and Vita? Unless the TSAB holds universal conscription, that part was supposed to be optional.

That was a joke.
Coming face-to-face with her must be the nightmare of many rookies.

Zero Hurricane · 2011-12-16, 19:41

Personally, I think if Thoma, although he was a boy hearted innocent, actually has emotional and mental instability. On the one hand, he is very loyal to his friends. But on the other hand, he actually plunged his friends into danger. Plus if he became like an uncontrollable beast. Just like Flandre.

LostSome · 2011-12-16, 19:50

Thoma`s being instable is a given with his past...
The boy lived alone with revenge his only motivation for over a year.
Saying that a little love from Subaru cured all the drama is really pushing it.
Is there no psy anywhere on the multiverse ?

Also there is always his whole notion of "place of belonging"... Curren is playing the right card here.

Justin_Brett · 2011-12-16, 19:56

Quote:

It's called context. You're falling victim to the fundamental attribute error. Are they doing bad things because of some innate badness they have, or are they doing them because of external, situational factors?

The context of that statement was pretty damn clear, I thought. And they're at least in part doing this out of revenge on someone, which isn't automatically something to cheer for. If you're telling me to think more on this, Touma should as well.

Zero Hurricane · 2011-12-16, 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostSome

Thoma`s being instable is a given with his past...
The boy lived alone with revenge his only motivation for over a year.
Saying that a little love from Subaru cured all the drama is really pushing it.
Is there no psy anywhere on the multiverse ?

Also there is always his whole notion of "place of belonging"... Curren is playing the right card here.

I'm also think about it. Since childhood, he is an outcast child in society. Even at a young age anyway (probably 5-7 years), he was already thinking about revenge, even at the age of 15. Thanks to the love and affection, and support from Subaru and his friends, he felt that revenge is wrong. Until Curren in the latest chapter intends to play with his emotions and feelings...

Akiyoshi · 2011-12-16, 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuze

"Es por eso que el arma tipo Espada de Caledfwich llega mañana"

Only way that's gonna work is if the gun type is literally called Sword. Or Espada.

And besides, Teana's stuff was supposed to be ready over two months ago. Remember chapter 17?

Still i'm not ready, if War Hammer and Strike Cannon are to be believed this "sword" AEC will suck hard xDU. Man i need a hug xDU

Kuze · 2011-12-16, 20:05

Poor, poor Sword Breaker. You did exactly what you were designed to do and more, and for that, nobody remembers you in this series. The failures are somehow more important than the successes.

Zero Hurricane · 2011-12-16, 20:08

So far the AEC much more failure, rather than success.

itanshi1 · 2011-12-16, 20:09

yay experiments, heres to refinement

Kuze · 2011-12-16, 20:15

You mean out of the three prototype models shown, two succeeded at breaking the Esquad's armor, the heavy artillery cannons were only broken through serious Divider/Silver Cross abuse, and the gauntlet broke everything Subaru laid her hands on.

I'm not going to start calling it the success story of Section Six, and the design for the Warhammer is ugly as hell, and the to-be-installed onboard reactors need to be explained already (are the batteries made obsolete? What?), and they have significant flaws, but it's definitely not the fracas that second hand retellings have them as.

Now if anyone thinks I'm being too kind on FORCE, you'll have to bear with it for the moment. Yesterday started with me watching Metal Gear's newest trailer, involving REVENGEANCE. And Raiden acting like old school Dante.

Then, I watched the SOPA committee video stream. It had such gems as foreign piracy websites being compared to nukes, and, I, I

gah.

So my brain is little bit forgiving on anything I do not hold the burning hate of a MILLION EXPLODING SUNS I'm gonna stop talking now about that oh god

Akiyoshi · 2011-12-16, 20:52

I haven't mentioned Sword Breaker because i know it's the only single succesfull AEC-Equipement, and that's only half the credit for the equip, it's great success it's because the weapon is specifically designed to use and focus one of Subaru's very own powers, her Vibration Shatter, into a more specific function. something the other AEC-weapons don't do. Sword Breaker complements Subaru's already available arsenal, the other AECs hinder the potential of their users by forcing them to change tactics.

It's the main reason behind the success of Sword Breaker and 5th Gen Bardiche, both allow the users to do what they're supposedly trained to do. I fear for that sword AEC because if the quality of the blade is the same as that of the Strike Cannons the i'll say already that it won't represent a problem for Deville and Curren, and taking into account that one of Cypha's special powers is "supper cutting" well...

rxrx · 2011-12-16, 21:38

On the case of Touma, I think it is less of good or bad people but how they have acted towards him that counts. Remember, he is a little emotionally instable but Subaru pulled him out of his revenge cycle by being nice to him despite being strangers. To the guy, he might not know if she is helping him with ulterior motives or not.

In the case of the Huks, they save his ass when he was knocked out and gave him a choice to decide whether he wants to enter the Huks or not, which can be easily force on if they use Isis and Lily as hostages. Besides, the orginal japanese manga only had Vey trolling him without admitting on slaughering his village and that is pretty enough to make him think.

The thing is, the issue here is not clean black and white and the kid knows it a little. To me, it is more like grey vs grey, the selfish Huks vs the asshole capitalist. More like choose your own poison.

00-Raiser · 2011-12-16, 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

The context of that statement was pretty damn clear, I thought.

Yeah, it was "We would have killed you if it was our job to do so" not "we would have killed you for no reason."

Justin_Brett · 2011-12-16, 23:12

Okay, yeah. And?

Tiresias · 2011-12-16, 23:14

...right, like that other village which Louie or something (those two guys who somehow got headsplosion) started to attack.

Y'know what? Right now I care less about why they kill and more the fact that they do kill. A lot. Most of them against civilians who never provoked them and can't fight back. The damage has been done, and it is clear more damage will be caused unless the Bureau can start putting these raids in check. And sending Touma to join them and try to subvert them from the inside would be grossly ineffective.

Why? Because the Hucks know he associates with members of MS6.

At the very, very best scenario, one which I believe to be highly improbable, they would hold true to their words and not make him do anything. But that's about it. His words will fall to deaf ears because they know about his relation to MS6, their "enemy." There's no reason for them to listen to his words, especially since in their eyes they currently have the upper hand - the last skirmish with a Bureau Task Force ended with multiple enemies suffering major injuries while they barely have to use their React ability.

At the worst scenario, Curren will deliberately feed him false information, pretending to trust him only to yell "SURPRISE! You don't think we're stupid enough to trust a rat, do you?" later while reversing the trap.

Either way, the Bureau has nothing to gain by letting Touma join the Hucks.

WarpObscura · 2011-12-16, 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Besides, all the best villains can manipulate people solely by telling the truth. Isn't that right, Kirei?

And QB. Mustn't forget QB.

"Oh, you didn't clarify the terms? What a shame."

Justin_Brett · 2011-12-16, 23:54

That would imply anyone is ever capable of forgetting Madoka or not bringing it up.

2011-12-16, 19:41	Link #4925
Zero Hurricane I'm here for the reason.. Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Surabaya, East Java, Indonesia Age: 31	Personally, I think if Thoma, although he was a boy hearted innocent, actually has emotional and mental instability. On the one hand, he is very loyal to his friends. But on the other hand, he actually plunged his friends into danger. Plus if he became like an uncontrollable beast. Just like Flandre. __________________ "Use of deadly force is authorized"

2011-12-16, 19:50	Link #4926
LostSome Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Canada	Thoma`s being instable is a given with his past... The boy lived alone with revenge his only motivation for over a year. Saying that a little love from Subaru cured all the drama is really pushing it. Is there no psy anywhere on the multiverse ? Also there is always his whole notion of "place of belonging"... Curren is playing the right card here. __________________ Nyohohohoho ! It`s the law of the universe that only wizards die as virgins. You can`t let yourself die as a virgin, right ? -Old geezer.

2011-12-16, 20:08	Link #4931
Zero Hurricane I'm here for the reason.. Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Surabaya, East Java, Indonesia Age: 31	So far the AEC much more failure, rather than success. __________________ "Use of deadly force is authorized"

2011-12-16, 20:09	Link #4932
itanshi1 Writer, Jester, MtG nerd Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Nanoha Used Car Dealership. RERISE!	yay experiments, heres to refinement __________________ For those that belittle their favorite characters, complain about pairings, complain about oversexed images. Stop, thank you. Fear Anxiety Doubt is but a fad. The life of a fad depends entirely on the willingness to support it. Difficulty is a choice. Determination is a path. Your next great idea after your destination is the true goal.

2011-12-16, 20:52	Link #4934
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	I haven't mentioned Sword Breaker because i know it's the only single succesfull AEC-Equipement, and that's only half the credit for the equip, it's great success it's because the weapon is specifically designed to use and focus one of Subaru's very own powers, her Vibration Shatter, into a more specific function. something the other AEC-weapons don't do. Sword Breaker complements Subaru's already available arsenal, the other AECs hinder the potential of their users by forcing them to change tactics. It's the main reason behind the success of Sword Breaker and 5th Gen Bardiche, both allow the users to do what they're supposedly trained to do. I fear for that sword AEC because if the quality of the blade is the same as that of the Strike Cannons the i'll say already that it won't represent a problem for Deville and Curren, and taking into account that one of Cypha's special powers is "supper cutting" well... __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2011-12-16, 20:05	Link #4930
Kuze Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011	Poor, poor Sword Breaker. You did exactly what you were designed to do and more, and for that, nobody remembers you in this series. The failures are somehow more important than the successes.

2011-12-16, 20:15	Link #4933
Kuze Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011	You mean out of the three prototype models shown, two succeeded at breaking the Esquad's armor, the heavy artillery cannons were only broken through serious Divider/Silver Cross abuse, and the gauntlet broke everything Subaru laid her hands on. I'm not going to start calling it the success story of Section Six, and the design for the Warhammer is ugly as hell, and the to-be-installed onboard reactors need to be explained already (are the batteries made obsolete? What?), and they have significant flaws, but it's definitely not the fracas that second hand retellings have them as. Now if anyone thinks I'm being too kind on FORCE, you'll have to bear with it for the moment. Yesterday started with me watching Metal Gear's newest trailer, involving REVENGEANCE. And Raiden acting like old school Dante. Then, I watched the SOPA committee video stream. It had such gems as foreign piracy websites being compared to nukes, and, I, I gah. So my brain is little bit forgiving on anything I do not hold the burning hate of a MILLION EXPLODING SUNS I'm gonna stop talking now about that oh god

2011-12-16, 21:38	Link #4935
rxrx Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	On the case of Touma, I think it is less of good or bad people but how they have acted towards him that counts. Remember, he is a little emotionally instable but Subaru pulled him out of his revenge cycle by being nice to him despite being strangers. To the guy, he might not know if she is helping him with ulterior motives or not. In the case of the Huks, they save his ass when he was knocked out and gave him a choice to decide whether he wants to enter the Huks or not, which can be easily force on if they use Isis and Lily as hostages. Besides, the orginal japanese manga only had Vey trolling him without admitting on slaughering his village and that is pretty enough to make him think. The thing is, the issue here is not clean black and white and the kid knows it a little. To me, it is more like grey vs grey, the selfish Huks vs the asshole capitalist. More like choose your own poison.

2011-12-16, 23:12	Link #4937
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	Okay, yeah. And?

2011-12-16, 23:14	Link #4938
Tiresias Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara Join Date: May 2010 Location: Pekanbaru (UTC+07:00) Age: 37	...right, like that other village which Louie or something (those two guys who somehow got headsplosion) started to attack. Y'know what? Right now I care less about why they kill and more the fact that they do kill. A lot. Most of them against civilians who never provoked them and can't fight back. The damage has been done, and it is clear more damage will be caused unless the Bureau can start putting these raids in check. And sending Touma to join them and try to subvert them from the inside would be grossly ineffective. Why? Because the Hucks know he associates with members of MS6. At the very, very best scenario, one which I believe to be highly improbable, they would hold true to their words and not make him do anything. But that's about it. His words will fall to deaf ears because they know about his relation to MS6, their "enemy." There's no reason for them to listen to his words, especially since in their eyes they currently have the upper hand - the last skirmish with a Bureau Task Force ended with multiple enemies suffering major injuries while they barely have to use their React ability. At the worst scenario, Curren will deliberately feed him false information, pretending to trust him only to yell "SURPRISE! You don't think we're stupid enough to trust a rat, do you?" later while reversing the trap. Either way, the Bureau has nothing to gain by letting Touma join the Hucks. __________________

2011-12-16, 23:54	Link #4940
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	That would imply anyone is ever capable of forgetting Madoka or not bringing it up.