[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Renall]

I think part of it is Jessica's birth means Krauss has an heir, which more or less screws up her plan to stay in the family register and jockey for the headship because she had George and Natsuhi and Krauss had nothing. They basically ruined her plans, which might explain why she's so rude to Natsuhi.

[momobunny]

Of course it stems from Krauss, but the qualities that she belittles about Jessica are the very same that she has. That's where the hypocrisy lies.

[Shamisen]

Originally Posted by Renall

I think part of it is Jessica's birth means Krauss has an heir, which more or less screws up her plan to stay in the family register and jockey for the headship because she had George and Natsuhi and Krauss had nothing. They basically ruined her plans, which might explain why she's so rude to Natsuhi.

This. Agreed. It more or less said this during EP 1, I think.

[Jan-Poo]

Well that's totally unreasonable anyway, it's not like any other woman would have done any different, and there's certainly nothing wrong on providing a heir to a husband.

The hatred Eva bears toward Natsuhi is completely irrational, and unconsciously chauvinist (yes she admit it herself).

[Kitsu]

She thinks that George, hideyoshi and herself(her side) are superior than Krauss's family, just because. she doesn't have proper arguments why she hates Natsuhi and wants to blame things soley on her. It's just like this

Natsuhi (who will be the heads wife) < Hideyoshi (who is her husband and should be in the main family)

[MeoTwister5]

And in the first place she should have been removed from the family register the moment she married Hidoyoshi. It was only because Krauss and Natsuhi couldn't bear a child before Eva and Hideyoshi could that she managed to manipulate the situation to keep her, Hideyoshi and George in the official family roster.

[Avisch]

Originally Posted by Keriaku

I'm putting out a request because I personally can't do it, but does anybody think they could make a list of all the significant theories there are right now, to see what their outcomes are over the next few answer arcs.

I'm talking about stuff like Kanon = Shannon, Rosa being Battler's mother, Jessica = Beatrice etc.

I'll try my hand and it. I've been wanting something similar (all red text in one document).

I will go each episode thread, search "Theory". Post links to individual posts whilst also writing a small summary of the theory.
EDIT:
Can't do this right now. It's alot of work.

Spoiler for start:

Episode 1:Kanon and Jessica are culprits - Pretty in-depth. Gives Jessica good reason.

Episode 1: 2nd twilight (trick or lie?)
Two Shannons
Killer is not acting alone

All red is fake

[Jan-Poo]

that's going to be an incredibly crazy job. The theories that have been proposed so far are endless. But I guess you can reduce the number by eliminating the ones that were considered highly improbable by the majority of posters.

[Ninjacrat]

For theory reference: This page tends more towards 'cracky' theories, but it hits a lot of the big ones too.

[Kitsu]

Yay! my post is in there!

I think another major theory is the theory of the Killer MILFs

First Ep = Natsuhi
Second Ep = Rosa
Third Ep = Eva
Forth Ep = Kyrie

Than there is the theory that Amakusa was paid by Okonogi and killed Kasumi and co. and then Ange.

Rena is another one of the servants at the Ushiromiya mansion.

What the...
and about the Kanon/Shannon theory

I'm haunted by the image of them waking up every morning and asking: "Who wants to be the maid today?"

What? Shit...rofl...

Some of the theories on that page are fine but some are....("Sakutarou mauled everyone to death") were a bit ...uhm... Also many of the "better" theories lack evidence and elaboration.

[Jan-Poo]

Some of the theories there are completely denied by red truths.

Like the theory that Battler is just a figment of Maria's imagination.

[Kitsu]

Like I said. Some are really silly, some are inlogical, some are already denied, some are made up out of thin air and some are fine.

[Ninjacrat]

Good job pointing out that 'Sakutaro is the killer' is a silly theory. I'm sure none of them would have noticed otherwise.

[Mikachiru]

Originally Posted by Ninjacrat

Good job pointing out that 'Sakutaro is the killer' is a silly theory. I'm sure none of them would have noticed otherwise.

Are you kidding me? I found almost all of those theories/speculation ridiculous. "Rena is a maid on Rokkenjima?" "Beato is the only compassionate person?" "Jessica is Beatrice (The theory itself is fine, but the reasons weren't. )?" Wow...I'm still not convienced about Shannon=Kanon...

[Kitsu]

Of course!!! I just put an "serious" example first (the people seemed to ment it serious but it was rather ehehehehehe) , then one which is rather...there wasn't good elaboration and the person made fun of his own theory and then the the sill one.

Btw..I still believe Sakutaro is the killer, because Higurashi="Killer lolis" and everyone says Umineko="Killer MILFs" but the truth is Umineko="Killer Shota" -shot-

Another major theory that always one of the siblings or in-laws represents a stake. (and that the seven children always represent one virtue). but there is also the one which says 7 of all the 17 people are representig the stakes. For example Kanon=Satan (wrath)

[stray]

Ooooh crack theories. I'll take this opportunity to throw mine into the pile.

I definitely have an anti-mystery slant, so I'll let everyone else guess at the killer(s); this is moreso to do with the metaworld dynamic and meta-Battler vs meta-Beato (or maybe... metaBattlerXmetaBeato ). Been a bit hesitant to post partially because the concepts could be really confusing and partially because I'm actually scared I might be on the right track thematically. If nothing else I think it's fairly plausible.

Spoiler for Crack kills.:

So... I'm in a tl;dr-ing kind of mood and I've always been a big fan of crazy modern math/logic/philosophy theories. When I was 15 or something I read Jurassic Park, which aside from being cool movies for the 90's was Michael Crichton interpreting and applying principles of chaos theory into a fictional world. Which at the time was fucking awesome to me.

I know everyone is all about Battler's "turning the chessboard over" saying but what intrigues me is the fact that it's an application of game theory. Game theory itself is based on a ton of complex ass mathematical formulas that I'm not going to even try to expand upon, and there are a ton of branches of it depending on the type of game. In the end, what it all comes down to is each player's strategy to win depending on the rules.

The thing is... with all these chessboards flipping all over... no one is actually playing chess.

I went googling looking for more information on game theory - I only know a little about it - or anyone discussing it in Umineko fandom, and did find a blog where someone who was equating the murder mystery that piece Battler is playing to a Bayesian game. Makes sense, and respect to you if you post here, but I'm fairly anti-mystery, and more interested in what's going on in Purgatorio. There's another game going on... one that's actually a bit more twisted, and meta-Battler and meta-Beato are the pieces...

Spoiler for Just say no to crack.:

I guess I kind of started seeing the rules of this game, but couldn't find the words to put it in. Thankfully, they already exist. It's basically something called a "prisoner's dilemma." The premise of the game in its purest form is listed if you follow the wiki, but I'll quote a summary. Here's another link if you're anti wiki.

Two suspects are arrested by the police. The police have insufficient evidence for a conviction, and, having separated both prisoners, visit each of them to offer the same deal. If one testifies (defects from the other) for the prosecution against the other and the other remains silent (cooperates with the other), the betrayer goes free and the silent accomplice receives the full 10-year sentence. If both remain silent, both prisoners are sentenced to only six months in jail for a minor charge. If each betrays the other, each receives a five-year sentence. Each prisoner must choose to betray the other or to remain silent. Each one is assured that the other would not know about the betrayal before the end of the investigation. How should the prisoners act?

It's not an uncommon premise, actually. The only example I can think of off the top of my head are the 'Saw' movies, though. In a nutshell, two people are trapped in a situation they can't escape, and there's 4 outcomes... one can sacrifice the other (in either direction), both can sacrifice each other for the worst outcome, or both can cooperate for the best outcome.

Obviously, the rules and the setting in Umineko are completely different, but the premise is basically the same if you look at it. The "opponent" isn't necessarily clear, though. Kinzo, and the epitaph? Accepting Battler's sin as planting the seeds for the killings and Beato as the 'beneficiary' makes them the bookends to everything that happened, so you can look at it like that... maybe they're just trapped (or initially were) by the situation. Bern and Lambda have them trapped too, though.

Where it stands, though, is at 2 options that neither one has been willing to take all the way yet: Battler can deny Beato's existence completely, save his family, and escape; or Beato can convince Battler to accept magic, sacrifice his family, and open the door to her golden land. They could keep going back and forth, trapped, for eternity, in the worst outcome... or, they can take the "winning route" of co-operating... and... well, I dunno. But we probably have a few more episodes to find out. It bodes relatively well for a possible BattlerXBeato pairing, if nothing else.

Really comes down to motives (and strategies) up til now... but that's another post. Of course if it does go that route, that doesn't preclude any further backstabbing...

[Keriaku]

This is why I meant that the list should only compile theories that are prominent and actually have some chance of being partly right as we start to dive into the answer arcs.

Avisch had the right idea, but ended up agreeing with me that it is a lot of work to go through everything. Do people know some off the top of their heads?

We don't even need description, I'd be happy enough with just a list like:

- Kanon = Shannon
- Jessica = Beatrice, Kumasawa = Virgillia

etc.

[Golden Witch Drugs]

What about...

Jessica = Beatrice = Battler's mother?! Think about it <_< Although that would make a bit of a Oedipus drama... Without the killing father part that is. Ehe~

[Kitsu]

then there

Kanon= unkown demon or Beatrice
Shannon= Gaap
Genji= Ronove
Kumasawa = Virgilia
Gohda=Goats

then there is

Stakes=Parents
Siestas=Winchesters
Kyrie=Battler's mother (it's major theory don't throw stones at me, becuase of that misccariage thing)
Eva=Not the culprit of the 3rd game
Shannon=2nd game culprit (likewise there is a rosa version)
Jessica killed George, called Battler and then shot herself in the head (Winchester flings away because of the repulsion and is hiddenbecause of that (under the bed for example) (forth game)
Kyrie=some kinda mastermind behind everything
Juuza=Killer of Ange, Kasumi and co.
Old!Ep3!Eva really being murdered(not by the russians though )
The whole games just being in Battler's head
Battler killing his "own" mom, Asumo (his sin)
Kyrie killing Asumo
Natsuhi=Beatrice (deeply wounded by Beatrice and timeline...almost dead theory)
there is still way more

Jessica = Beatrice = Battler's mother?! Think about it <_< Although that would make a bit of a Oedipus drama... Without the killing father part that is. Ehe~

Okay that's just ew. I mean Beatrice being Battler's mom okay fine...but Jessica being Battler's mom is more ew and plain illogical they are the same age, it's just impossible. The whole Jessica=Beatrice annoys me cause if Ryukishi still sails with Beatrice(who is jessi)xBattler... -.- .... ToT

[Golden Witch Drugs]

Okay that's just ew. I mean Beatrice being Battler's mom okay fine...but Jessica being Battler's mom is more ew and plain illogical they are the same age, it's just impossible. The whole Jessica=Beatrice annoys me cause if Ryukishi still sails with Beatrice(who is jessi)xBattler... -.- .... ToT

Hahaha, I was just joking ^^'
But if that were to be the truth it would probably be the perfect "USO DA!"