2010-12-12, 00:08 | Link #2261 |
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 35
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It's obvious where Togame is lying and when she's telling the truth, the reflection of her reality, in her pool of blood, but again it's the immortalizing of the galiant death, death with meaning, which isn't tragic at all, frivolous death is actually the tragic thing, death that has no meaning, thathas no explanation. At least for all the characters that die, their deaths bring meaning to the story in some sense, although in their own personal respects in life, they were able to fight for their lord/friends/lovers, they died doing what they valued, not being shot by a random bullet in a drive by meant for the gangbanger on the street. This is why her death isn't impactful, her death is a wish fulfillment, when righting a story it's hard to not want to expunge all the thoughts of your dying character, you want the character understood, but not giving that verbose end has greater power, greater intensity, because of the unfinished "business" aspect of it. The notion their life wasn't understood, that their feelings weren't accepted, that's why when somebodies parent dies for the family memebers that had confrontations with that person, it's supremely tragic, the tragedy lies in the way we perceive our lives. We want to die heroic deaths, to make our lives and deaths have meaning, and unfortunately even though you can tell Togame really loves Shichika, she is the one that steers him to the keep, she's the one that forces him to not value his life. She is a strategist and she understood him so well that eventhough she doesn't want him to fulfill her vengeance she gets him to do it anyway.
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2010-12-12, 00:17 | Link #2262 |
Ka Ra Ku Ri
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Boogie down Bronx
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Something I noticed when watching it subbed,Hitel never gave up Togame's true identity in the end. She simply said "she died" I guess she still didn't want to give it away.(I guess out of respect or something) IDK lol I understood Hitel a lot more in this episode,I liked her so I didn't mind the end.
Yeah I also didn't see Togame's death as tragic(she was my favorite character too),seem more like she was relived to be free of the burden and revenge that she had....I did like that at least she admitted that she was in love with Shichika. |
2010-12-12, 02:22 | Link #2265 |
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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Perfect and beautiful beyond words. Thus the year-long journey ends. One of the most riveting and compelling series I have ever watched.
I sincerely hope that they release a box set for the Blu-Rays, as I am unable to justify $700 for 12 'episodes'. Also definitely need to pick up the novels at some point. Spoiler for Novel Question:
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2010-12-12, 02:46 | Link #2267 |
緩和
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Again, why do people assume this? No where does it indicate that they became "lovers". In fact it was evident that Shichika's love for Togame pretty much remained intact even despite her death. Not attacking you by any means, it just seems that numerous people in general had speculated on this idea and it couldn't be farther from the truth.
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2010-12-12, 02:46 | Link #2268 |
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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For me, I don't know where the flaw I could think of this last episode in animation. Animation was portrayed in pretty good way with enough symbols to fill the gap between novel and animation.
I love how Togame's splitting her emotional self and her egocentric self towards goal during lasting words. It must be hard for seiyuu to voice in this manner. I love how Togame planned Shichika to avenge her from start and end up wanting to free him and start to really love him before dying. I love how Togame chose to leave Shichika with the real her while fearing he might hate her from that. I love how Togame cared for Hitei and pass her thanks to woman knowing she's the one who ordered her death sentence. This is a key factor for Shichika to spare Hitei's life. I love how Shichika was brave enough to accept the truth without his heart being swayed by his delusions. He easily adapt to the change and realize how Yousha really feels. He's really cute and honest ones of the kind. I love how Shichika asked Hitei to confirm her feelings that Togame isn't only one who cherish Hitei. Though I don't think her answer will change the outcome of her fate since he brought that mask for her as keepsake like he kept Togame's hair so he intended to spare Hitei anyway. I love how Shichika really understands Togame's dying wish but chose to kill Shogunate regardless of her vengeance. That bastard made Togame wasted her whole life and need to make an example out of someone like that. I love how Hitei really cared Emonzaemon as the one she really can trust enough to grow some part of love inside of her as you can still see her wearing his mask as keepsake. I love how noble Hitei was by asking for death wish right after hearing Emonzaemon's last words. It must be tearful inside of her to the extent that she doesn't care seeing her goal being fulfilled or not before her death. I also like how shogunate acting coward afterwords too lol. I love how she regretted in killing Yousha while talking about her. It maybe my imagination though but I think Togame thanked Hitei for freeing her from burdens and finally fell for Shichika with happy death. This episode is fucking awesome and I can't think of better ending than this. Shichika being dead at the end? It'd be better staying alive seeing their resolves in epilogue. Hitei and Shichika are both broken at climax scene and finally we can see them in some shape like how she sees him like certain someone (Togame? lol). I don't think Shichika can forgive Hitei for killing Togame and Hitei won't fall for Shichika who killed her beloved Emonzaemon anytime soon so they won't be a couple for a while until times cure their pains. But as they both lost their own peace of mind and understand each other's pains, it wouldn't be surprised to see them pairing in the end anyway. 10/10! Last edited by Windows X; 2010-12-12 at 03:09. |
2010-12-12, 02:55 | Link #2269 |
Ka Ra Ku Ri
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Boogie down Bronx
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Lol honestly I don't think Shichika has any interest in anyone but Togame(dead or alive). I think they're together simply because they have no one else in the world,both of their most closet companions are dead soooo yeah.(plus I think hitel is the one following,shichika around)
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2010-12-12, 03:44 | Link #2271 |
iceman
Scanlator
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: CO, USA
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Oh man, I was expecting a powerful episode from how eps 11 ended last time, but to think it was this amazing. Togame's last words and Shichika's responses were some of the most touching dialogue I've heard in anime. And the way how Shichika became a beast while remaining completely sane ran a chill down my spine; a show of just how much he loved Togame. I was sure he was going to go down the 'berserk' trope and become an unstoppable killer, but that didn't happen to my delight. Oh, and of course I got my share of action as well. And the episode ends on a lighter note, lessening the bittersweet feeling I had for the majority of the episode (not that I minded). It really was the perfect ending to an incredible series.
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2010-12-12, 05:57 | Link #2273 |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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Unfortunately I was already spoiled on Togame's death, partly because of some idiots spoiling it in the Bakemonogatari forum and partly because of the fact that some genius felt the need to give this thread the 'Tragedy' tag.
It went by a little fast so I wasn't able to fully take in why Shichika didn't feel hatred for Hitei or why he did hate the Shogunate but I can understand why now. Shichika killed a lot of people, but at least he didn't kill the kid. I still don't quite understand how the fuck he survived though...
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2010-12-12, 06:11 | Link #2274 |
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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Shichika didn't feel hatred for Hitei? I'm pretty sure he still has some lingering feelings in castle though Hitei's answer may soften him a bit to let her accompany with him in epilogue.
For Hitei, it's just that Togame doesn't hate Hitei. She understands why Hitei has to act this way as fellow royal affairs. She also feel thankful for her as her whole life being suck and end with happy death. If it weren't for Hitei killing Togame, she would have to kill Shichika and finish her vengeance living the rest of her life in regrets. Seeing Togame dying happily, how can he kill the last person in this world whom Togame really cherish in life? Or maybe it's just Shichika giving her sympathy for effort to sacrifice her dear friend and loved ones to archive her own goal like Togame. Though in the end she couldn't let go of Emonzaemon dying by asking to kill Shichika. For that shogunate, he ordered Shichika's father to behead Yousha's father. He is the reason why Togame wasted her whole life for this idiot and something like this need to be punished. Personally, I prefer Hitei before being cute though. Her dishonest to show her kindness is really something eventhough I may not really find it pleasant in real-life. Maybe I'm also one like this kind of character too. Last edited by Windows X; 2010-12-12 at 06:26. |
2010-12-12, 06:34 | Link #2275 | ||
Kana Hanazawa ♥
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 37
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In the end, Nanami's death hit me harder than Togame's. About Shichika and Hitei... it's pretty damn obvious to me that they're going to end up together at some point. There's no way nothing is going to happen between the two of them if they keep traveling together. Don't forget Hitei is very similar to Togame, it wouldn't be that surprising if Shichika eventually fell in love with her.
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2010-12-12, 06:40 | Link #2276 |
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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Somewhere in this thread I remember reading that this was a series with a huge WTF?! ending to it, and I have to say that this last episode was pretty shocking.
Probably the thing that surprised me the most was that Hitei was never really Togame's enemy to begin with. And it terms of why Shichika shared her, I think it simply has to do with him seeing traits of Togame within her. This is also reflective on how she acts after her ancestors' plans of falsifying history fail. Much like Togame at the moment of her death, Hitei bacame free from family shackles and was able to live life normally without the constant planning and scheming. The series took awhile to finally finish up, but all in all it was a good ride. |
2010-12-12, 06:40 | Link #2277 | |
Beautiful fighter.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: England, UK
Age: 37
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2010-12-12, 06:46 | Link #2278 | |
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2010-12-12, 06:47 | Link #2279 | ||
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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Last edited by Kunagisa; 2010-12-12 at 07:02. Reason: Can't forget Nanami! |
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2010-12-12, 07:02 | Link #2280 | ||
緩和
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Tags |
action, adventure, comedy, edo setting, light novel adaptation, nishio, romance, tragedy |
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