Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 04 Discussion / Poll

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Honey_and_Cleaver

I dont care about any politics in this gundam anime because i know japanese people tend to be stuck up people in their own country who dont know anything about the world. As far as to be concern, i only find it appropriate to enjoy the anime by itself. I like the bad guys and the good guys here in this story and hopefully, my favourites dont die, but i hope Saji does, because hes your typicall japanese stuck up fool.

Saji isn't a fool, he is just your typical school boy. He acts this way only because school boys WATCH Gundam 00, as such the demographic had to be represented. And we have the "adults" of the show who made a point of telling him how wrong he can be.

I don't know where you are from, but people like Saji are not unique to Japan. Are you claiming where ever you lived is devoid of people like Saji?

Sajis of the world are the majority. They are everywhere. They aren't even bad people, so I don't see why you want him dead. What did he do that was so offensive?

[duotiga]

in the world of gundams, there aren't really actual good guys or bad guys....politics & miltary organisations each have their own individual agendas to acheive, manipulating each other to achieve each other goals.

If you relly want to see a clear distinctive good guys/bad guys, watching Toku series would be more appropriate....

I find Saji as a normal typical teenage boy trying to understand what the world is thinking .

[lubczyk]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

Wait, you mean the awesome ones that actually kind of resemble Civil War Union officer uniforms. Oh man I actually like those a lot. Then again I'm a sucker for period military uniforms. And if they aren't meant to resemble Union (1800's) uniforms than I'm pretty sure they are a reference to something from the Victorian era.

I think the Union uniforms are worse than their American Civil War counterparts. They tend to resemble more the uniforms of France and Prussia during the Napoleonic Wars. You know with the big decorative helmets and such worn during the early 1800s and the late 1700s era. If my history is correct, those type of decorative hats were worn by European powers up through World War I when the majority country saw a need in "protective" head gear.

Maybe the director is implying that the Americans are merely an extension of their European colonist counterparts - same in every other way but name and geography?

[DarkMirage]

Originally Posted by Honey_and_Cleaver

I dont care about any politics in this gundam anime because i know japanese people tend to be stuck up people in their own country who dont know anything about the world. As far as to be concern, i only find it appropriate to enjoy the anime by itself. I like the bad guys and the good guys here in this story and hopefully, my favourites dont die, but i hope Saji does, because hes your typicall japanese stuck up fool.

That's too bad, because I find that the politics in Gundam 00 to be the best part of the series, and certainly a lot better than all the other half-hearted attempts to discuss the topic in other recent Gundam titles.

Japan isn't any more "stuck-up" than most developed nations in the world. Most teenagers from first world nations are politically-ignorant. I for one am glad that Sunrise is introducing these topics into their works because there is always the chance that it may encourage some real-life examples of Saji to go out and find out more about the world.

Oh well.

[duotiga]

1 thing note that miltary advancement & procurement ties hand in hand with politics.....is a show of power literally.

[cors8]

Originally Posted by Honey_and_Cleaver

I dont care about any politics in this gundam anime because i know japanese people tend to be stuck up people in their own country who dont know anything about the world. As far as to be concern, i only find it appropriate to enjoy the anime by itself. I like the bad guys and the good guys here in this story and hopefully, my favourites dont die, but i hope Saji does, because hes your typicall japanese stuck up fool.

Yeah, just like the average American is the pinnacle of intellectual society....... I'm sure you were never a naive kid who had an idealized view on how the world works.

Anyway, I rather like the politics. The world is run by it so it's only fitting to see what effect CB has on each faction and how they would twist it to suit their own ends.

[Papaya]

Originally Posted by brightman

Setsuna is not a Kurd. At least it hasn't been confirmed. He's from "Kurjis Republic" but that doesn't mean a thing.

Plus Kurds in general ARE Muslims. Though the guy on the loudspeaker, Ali Al-Sarches, seems to have an Arab name (which would probably make him not an Iranian).

Makes sense, but it could still be a Muslim sectarian conflict though.

[masama]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

1. Are you actually suggesting that Grunts in other Gundams series lasted longer than in 00? Because that is clearly not the case, so there is no point of comparison.

2. Orb was trying to stop A war. CB is trying to erase all wars in the future even though there is no world-war at all currently in 00. The 3 factions are not fighting each other. This is the first time I know of when a Gundam series is in fact, set in peacetime.

Stopping A war by force is easy, you just need lots of troops, equipment and money. Stopping War for eternity is outright impossible.

1. yes, because they are not called grunt, they have names. and generally they don't die after a shot from a rifle. They might not have much screentime but they give it their best shot and most likely die or escape by the end of episode(s). A prime example would probably be Graham's lackeys, whatever their names might be. We need more lackeys and less unnamed cannon fodders grunts. Turn A Gundam comes to mind as one of the better series with great selection of lackeys.

2. My original point was this series is about stopping the war, and you counters with no it's about the eradication of war. if you want to be this rigorous about the wording by using all these helpful bold statements then i rest my case.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by masama

2. My original point was this series is about stopping the war, and you counters with no it's about the eradication of war. if you want to be this rigorous about the wording by using all these helpful bold statements then i rest my case.

This story is about stopping "war", as in the concept of war. There is no actual war going on in 00 right now.

Seed and Seed Destiny were both about stopping actual wars that are happening at the time of the series.

There's a HUGE difference between the two that goes beyond wording.

[Revolutionist]

I think I understand what the director is trying to do with this series...

Perhaps through Celestial Being he can show all the naive kids in Japan and America that in the real world there is no Lacus Clyne or Kira Yamato that intervene in the name of righteousness and or peace.
As long as there is people there will be Ethnic conflicts, misunderstandings, and wars. Trying to eradicate war is very hypocritical when done by force, specially when there isn't even a war going on.

00 is focusing on the Gray aspect of the world, instead of the previous Black and White fictitious aspects represented in previous series. A welcome change to say the least.

[masama]

Originally Posted by brightman

This story is about stopping "war", as in the concept of war. There is no actual war going on in 00 right now.

Seed and Seed Destiny were both about stopping actual wars that are happening at the time of the series.

There's a HUGE difference between the two that goes beyond wording.

Can I assume there won't be a HUGE difference when there are actual wars then?

I'd bet my month's wage on there'll be one in a not far distant future...

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Trying to eradicate war is very hypocritical when done by force, specially when there isn't even a war going on.

by today's standard that's what i called terrorism.

[Honey_and_Cleaver]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Saji isn't a fool, he is just your typical school boy. He acts this way only because school boys WATCH Gundam 00, as such the demographic had to be represented. And we have the "adults" of the show who made a point of telling him how wrong he can be.

I don't know where you are from, but people like Saji are not unique to Japan. Are you claiming where ever you lived is devoid of people like Saji?

Sajis of the world are the majority. They are everywhere. They aren't even bad people, so I don't see why you want him dead. What did he do that was so offensive?

The word typicall is very well suited with a similar word for stuck up too. Bad people can mean many ways, either their motive is bad or their ignorance is bad. If people like Saji is everywhere, then there should be 5 other more people like Saji in the anime. Come to think of it, i dont think so, hes your stereotype japanese innocent good boy in which a western girl would be dying to fall for. Well only in animes perhaps.

Yeah, just like the average American is the pinnacle of intellectual society....... I'm sure you were never a naive kid who had an idealized view on how the world works.

Anyway, I rather like the politics. The world is run by it so it's only fitting to see what effect CB has on each faction and how they would twist it to suit their own ends.

In every war, theyre sure to be politics, but politics is politics, nether the less, even if the anime wants to show their view on the current world politics and association, i dont really care.

That's too bad, because I find that the politics in Gundam 00 to be the best part of the series, and certainly a lot better than all the other half-hearted attempts to discuss the topic in other recent Gundam titles.

Japan isn't any more "stuck-up" than most developed nations in the world. Most teenagers from first world nations are politically-ignorant. I for one am glad that Sunrise is introducing these topics into their works because there is always the chance that it may encourage some real-life examples of Saji to go out and find out more about the world.

Oh well.

If they dont believe in the word "curroption" by now, then id think theyre all not even alive. Theres many japanese teenagers who also travel abroad but still have the same ignorant thoughts about the world. Probrably one who really understand wouldnt be someone like Saji, and would interest in politics not because of the sake some stereotype teenage figure would be showing his face on gundam. Still if thats the case, then id say, it still just dumb.

[cors8]

If you want more characters like Saji, I'm sure the writers could oblige. However, you'd just be complaining about more useless characters that don't contribute to the story.

Did some Japanese kids beat you up or something as a child? Geez, people like Saji really are everywhere, in every country in the world.

[Honey_and_Cleaver]

Originally Posted by cors8

If you want more characters like Saji, I'm sure the writers could oblige. However, you'd just be complaining about more useless characters that don't contribute to the story.

Well i dont want him to contribute to the story and i hope youre right, but seeing as how hes appearing in a lot of episodes, thats getting me a bit edgy. I find boring to see people you see in real life appearing in animes too, and i thought anime entertainment is where one start to free themselves in a fantasy world of heroes and action.

Did some Japanese kids beat you up or something as a child? Geez, people like Saji really are everywhere, in every country in the world.

Somewhat, theyre invading my personal space too much, where my tolerance is reaching to a stand point.

[Geass]

Originally Posted by DarkMirage

That's too bad, because I find that the politics in Gundam 00 to be the best part of the series, and certainly a lot better than all the other half-hearted attempts to discuss the topic in other recent Gundam titles.

Agreed, the inclusion of (accurate and detailed) politics and economics has made this series the best so far in my eyes, as well as the best anime of the current season.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by masama

Can I assume there won't be a HUGE difference when there are actual wars then?

It depends on how CB acts at that time. If they are still adamant about stopping war as a third party for the good of mankind (in which case their current plan to eradicate war has failed) then it might turn out to be like GSD. However, if they are one of the instigators, or one of the sides in the war, then its a totally different story.

So in another words, too early to be calling 00 and GS/GSD similar, considering how so far its been way different.

[Geass]

Originally Posted by brightman

It depends on how CB acts at that time. If they are still adamant about stopping war as a third party for the good of mankind (in which case their current plan to eradicate war has failed) then it might turn out to be like GSD. However, if they are one of the instigators, or one of the sides in the war, then its a totally different story.

So in another words, too early to be calling 00 and GS/GSD similar, considering how so far its been way different.

Personally, I think that Celestial Being's goal is to start a war, perhaps a "war to end all wars" if you will.

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by Geass

Personally, I think that Celestial Being's goal is to start a war, perhaps a "war to end all wars" if you will.

what exactly lead you to that conclusion?

[brightman]

Originally Posted by ashlay

what exactly lead you to that conclusion?

I think Alejandro Corner's statement that their objective is to unite the world in hatred against the CB might have something to do with it... The whole world vs the CB (and sympathizers?) battling it out.

"War to end all wars" though sounds a wee bit much like Treize & Zech's war though.

[Geass]

Let's look at it logically, shall we? First off Celestial Being seems to be willing to attack anyone who looks to be starting conflict, practically an invitation for all the factions to focus on them. They obviously aren't against killing, shown by the attack on Ceylon, which means that I can see them using such a plan. The best reason, however, is that it's really their only realistic goal. They can't just end wars by attacking every country that looks like it'll start one, however starting a war against themselves and uniting the rest of the world against them is far from unrealistic. Following this logic, I believe that Celestial Being's plan is to force a situation with them on one side and the rest of the world on the other, thereby uniting the entire world.

There's also a Plan B, which I consider possible, though unlikely. In this scenario, Celestial Being will end up being the villains of the series, "ending war" by destroying all governments that would support it, a fairly anarchistic philosophy, if you will.

Of course, these theories rest on the basis of Sunrise being as creative as I'm giving them credit for, but I'm willing to take the risk after seeing Code Geass.

And the "war to end all wars" was more a reference to World War I than Gundam Wing, though that may also make an interesting comparison.