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Old 2021-01-12, 12:14   Link #2001
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
The Beer Hall Putsch wasn't super well planned either, just saying.
IMO it would be more acurate to compare this to the The Reichstag fire, since it was perpetrated as a power grab by the goverment executive branch (aka Chancellor of Germany) which btw was sucesful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Only if they specifically vote to also ban him from running (which they can only do after they vote to convict).
While I do think they should put donnie in jail to set an example for future wanna be insurectionists, let's not forget he is the sympton, not the cause of the problem. As we speak fox news is ramping up the hate against democrats like it is the most natural thing in the world and I suppose (since I do not have access to rural local tv stations) the same is happening in those rural tv news broadcasts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McW View Post
No, I don't think you do.
I think I have been misunderstood. I do not speak as a german (as I am not, nor have ever tried to fool no one). I talk as an outsider. Back in WWII there were plenty of non germans that sympathized with the nazi cause, their propaganda was successful inside and outside their country.

Trump propaganda machine has never really tried to sell their ideology outside the USA and it shows. Only those who that fancy themselves as part of the 1% might feel attracted to such a poor worldview.

p.s. understanding does not mean "falling into the honey trap", sadly I know someone in my family that indeed has fallen head first into it (and a plethora of conspiracy theories, but that is OT).
------------------------------
Now, back on track, what I would like to know is if with a successful impeachment donnie loses his pardon powers and if true, I would also like to know if prior pardons become nullified.

Last edited by mangamuscle; 2021-01-12 at 12:32.
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Old 2021-01-12, 12:51   Link #2002
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@manga muscle

I wish Trumpism was localized in the US, but I have way seen too many Trumpism chatter from Japan

Mostly because Japan also has its own right wing Netouyo problem, and also because Falun Gong operated Epoch Times has made huge efforts to spread conspiracy theories, and successfully sold Trump as their anti China messiah
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Old 2021-01-12, 13:18   Link #2003
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
IMO it would be more acurate to compare this to the The Reichstag fire, since it was perpetrated as a power grab by the goverment executive branch (aka Chancellor of Germany) which btw was sucesful.
My point is that just because this time the planning was bad, it doesn't mean we'll be so lucky next time.
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Old 2021-01-12, 13:18   Link #2004
Sheba
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Trumpism also have their supporters in France, which is fucking rich from far right wingers who mocked the left for letting themselves be contaminated by US identity politics.
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Old 2021-01-12, 18:26   Link #2005
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7 more days... or 8 for you muricans.
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Old 2021-01-12, 19:33   Link #2006
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Old 2021-01-12, 21:54   Link #2007
cyberdemon
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Looks like even some republicans are in favor of impeachment this time. Mostly house by the looks of it but I wonder about the senate
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Old 2021-01-12, 22:45   Link #2008
The Green One
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4 years of cowardice won't be shaken so easily. They're very afraid of Republican Constituent retaliation as they're still very much in Trump's pocket. There will no doubt be some who find their spine but enough to get a 2/3rd majority? I find that unlikely. There will be more than last time. I imagine they'll play their cards close to their chests and watch everyone else carefully.
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Last edited by The Green One; 2021-01-12 at 22:58.
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Old 2021-01-12, 22:58   Link #2009
Ithekro
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Some would just want him out of the way so they can run in 2024.
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Old 2021-01-12, 23:01   Link #2010
The Green One
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If it was that simple they would of done it the first time.
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Old 2021-01-12, 23:21   Link #2011
cyberdemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green One View Post
4 years of cowardice won't be shaken so easily. They're very afraid of Republican Constituent retaliation as they're still very much in Trump's pocket. There will no doubt be some who find their spine but enough to get a 2/3rd majority? I find that unlikely. There will be more than last time. I imagine they'll play their cards close to their chests and watch everyone else carefully.
But they want power. Trump gives them that but essentially makes them his servants to keep it and turns on his “allies” at the drop of a hat if he doesn’t deem them loyal enough. Even those who supported hi. Like Pence have been turned on simply because he didn’t have the power to change the election results. That alone would be a wake up call for many that they would need to purge him from power if they were to retain their positions. Otherwise they would just slowly be replaced by more sycophants and the republicans and conservative would end up dying out to this extremism.
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Old 2021-01-12, 23:40   Link #2012
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If it was possible it would be time to resurrect the Bull Moose Party (Progressives).
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Old 2021-01-13, 01:18   Link #2013
Guardian Enzo
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LOL, except there are basically zero progressive Republicans now. Their demise began with Taft's nomination and is now total.

I think the desire to be rid of Trump once and for all is what drives whatever chance there is of getting a 2/3 majority. Remember it's 2/3 of voting Senators, not necessarily 67 - so in theory a bunch of R senators could simply not vote if they want to be rid of him but are too gutless to say so on record. Cheney's support in the House (she's the #3 member) is a big deal. And there's even some talk Moscow Mitch wants to see this succeed.

I think a calculus has finally been reached for most in the GOP leadership that Trump is a losing hand - they're just trying to figure out the least disastrous way to fold. Plus, they're genuinely in fear of violence at the hand of Trump supporters.
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Old 2021-01-13, 01:30   Link #2014
Jaden
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Isn't it too late for impeachment?

By the time it would go to trial, Trump is just a guy. I don't think there is any precedent for impeaching random guys just so they can't become President. I think that might be difficult to justify.
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Old 2021-01-13, 01:47   Link #2015
Guardian Enzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
Isn't it too late for impeachment?

By the time it would go to trial, Trump is just a guy. I don't think there is any precedent for impeaching random guys just so they can't become President. I think that might be difficult to justify.
There's no precedent for presidents attempting to stage a coup against the U.S. government either but that didn't stop Trump from doing it.

Too late? Offenses are either impeachable and convictable or they aren't - whether the office holder is still in office is not a qualifying requirement. One of the most important reasons impeachment exists as a constitutional remedy is to give Congress the discretion to prevent demagogues from seeking office in future.

Also, Schumer can convene the Senate (with Ossoff and Warnock seated) on the 19th. He can begin the trial immediately, should he choose to.
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Old 2021-01-13, 01:50   Link #2016
The Green One
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The worst thing would do would be to do nothing. That sets the precedence that it's ok to do this. Oh people will whine, moan, and bitch but ultimately bury their heads in the sand while the perpetrator prances off to retire in luxury.
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Old 2021-01-13, 01:58   Link #2017
Guardian Enzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green One View Post
The worst thing would do would be to do nothing. That sets the precedence that it's ok to do this. Oh people will whine, moan, and bitch but ultimately bury their heads in the sand while the perpetrator prances off to retire in luxury.
It's not only Trump who need to be held accountable though. It's the people in the party who fed into the life that the election was in dispute and fanned the flames of violence. It's the House members who gave "reconnaissance tours" to the terrorists the day before the attacks, and helped to plan them.
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Old 2021-01-13, 02:30   Link #2018
Jaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
There's no precedent for presidents attempting to stage a coup against the U.S. government either but that didn't stop Trump from doing it.
First of all, that seems like it'll be difficult to establish, legally.

I don't think there is any question that Trump's speech falls into what is constitutionally protected. The end result of the Capitol being invaded isn't proof to the contrary. That his grievances about the elections were unfounded is also irrelevant, as long as he believed in them.

Otherwise, a lot of anti-war speeches, union speeches, civil rights speeches would also have to be considered illegal.

Then, to make a constitutionally protected speech the basis for impeachment is going to be tricky. Will they be able to bulldoze through that argument in a day? I doubt whether they can, at all.

Impeaching Trump anyway just for show, sure, I can understand that. My prediction is that it won't go very far.

Quote:
Too late? Offenses are either impeachable and convictable or they aren't - whether the office holder is still in office is not a qualifying requirement. One of the most important reasons impeachment exists as a constitutional remedy is to give Congress the discretion to prevent demagogues from seeking office in future.
I believe the text says something like "...can be removed AND disqualified..."

In other words, if you can't remove, you can't disqualify. I think that'll be difficult to get around.
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Old 2021-01-13, 02:57   Link #2019
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Incitement to riot is not protected speech. Even ACLU supports his impeachment. This is the same ACLU that supported the KKK

Additionally, Presidents who leave office still get classified security briefings and other benefits outlined in the former presidents act. Imagine the damage he can still do with that. If anything, he should be stripped of that.

//
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Old 2021-01-13, 04:14   Link #2020
Sheba
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My friends, the result of years spent on stormfront, chans and Twitter praising Hitler under the mask of black humor and edgy memes.

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Last edited by Sheba; 2021-01-13 at 06:05.
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