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Old 2021-01-09, 08:39   Link #481
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
what would even be the purpose of hiding the fact that it was Oishi and not Teppei? Oishi was pointed out as the main culprit in episode 13 and that was very visually confirmed in episode 14, there's really no reason to hide the fact that he's the one who assaulted K1, if that's true. Even if there was something about the scene that needed to be hidden, they still could have shown Oishi and omitting/altering the rest.

So in conclusion even if that wasn't Teppei, it would still make more sense if it was someone other than Oishi, someone whose identity must remain hidden.
The syndrome. Veterans already have that information but newcomers do not. As such, there has to be some kind of hints that would allow them to realize that "some scenes are not what they appear to be and something is affecting the characters POV to that effect".
For instance, narratively speaking, they didn't have to make Keiichi hallucinate the second part of the fight he had with Rena in Onidamashi but they had to to make it consistent with the established narrative from OG series. Likewise, that scene doesn't have to hide Ooishi per se but indicate that under stress and possibly other circumstances, characters like Keiichi can be driven mad and/or subject to hallucinations.
To me, that scene between Keiichi and Teppei is as absurd as Keiichi and Rena: Keiichi was shown hit from behind without any warning, yet he somehow could keep consciousness, fight back then fall in a coma. It just doesn't make any sense he could do so, just like how he could fight back Rena after being stabbed a dozen of times.

Based on that assumption, I don't believe the "fight" happened like that, which subsequently make Keiichi's observation completely unreliable. Granted, it doesn't prove completely "no one else but Ooishi did that", but circumstances are unlikely in my books. Ooishi just went to the surrounding area of the Furude Shrine with the bloodied bat (and upon closer inspection, it is definitely Satoshi's) and completely unharmed. If it was someone else who attacked Keiichi, then it would means L5 Ooishi just waltzed in Satoko's house, picked the bat and just left. That's quite convoluted.
But my main point is that 1) chances for Teppei to be actually there to attack Keiichi are pratically null 2) Keiichi fighting back like that is beyond unlikely. Anything goes after that, but assuming how the narrative works in Higurashi in general and what was shown about Ooishi later on makes me strongly believe Ooshi assaulted Keiichi then leave with the bat.
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Old 2021-01-09, 10:15   Link #482
AC-Phoenix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
The syndrome. Veterans already have that information but newcomers do not. As such, there has to be some kind of hints that would allow them to realize that "some scenes are not what they appear to be and something is affecting the characters POV to that effect".
For instance, narratively speaking, they didn't have to make Keiichi hallucinate the second part of the fight he had with Rena in Onidamashi but they had to to make it consistent with the established narrative from OG series. Likewise, that scene doesn't have to hide Ooishi per se but indicate that under stress and possibly other circumstances, characters like Keiichi can be driven mad and/or subject to hallucinations.
To me, that scene between Keiichi and Teppei is as absurd as Keiichi and Rena: Keiichi was shown hit from behind without any warning, yet he somehow could keep consciousness, fight back then fall in a coma. It just doesn't make any sense he could do so, just like how he could fight back Rena after being stabbed a dozen of times.

Based on that assumption, I don't believe the "fight" happened like that, which subsequently make Keiichi's observation completely unreliable. Granted, it doesn't prove completely "no one else but Ooishi did that", but circumstances are unlikely in my books. Ooishi just went to the surrounding area of the Furude Shrine with the bloodied bat (and upon closer inspection, it is definitely Satoshi's) and completely unharmed. If it was someone else who attacked Keiichi, then it would means L5 Ooishi just waltzed in Satoko's house, picked the bat and just left. That's quite convoluted.
But my main point is that 1) chances for Teppei to be actually there to attack Keiichi are pratically null 2) Keiichi fighting back like that is beyond unlikely. Anything goes after that, but assuming how the narrative works in Higurashi in general and what was shown about Ooishi later on makes me strongly believe Ooshi assaulted Keiichi then leave with the bat.
Got an objection there. Keiichi got hit only once, the bat however, shows clear signs of having been used more than just once, and it's highly unlikely Keiichi would have survived several hits with a baseball bat from someone who can lift up Rika with a single hand.

So why his point of view isn't entirely trusable, we can believe it at least to the part where he thought back against his assailant, meaning it couldn't have been used against Oishi as he had no blood on him whatsoever.

The more doubtable part here is imho Rena's perspective where Mion and Shion would be completely OK with keiichi and Satoko sneaking off, and even joking about it with Rena.

So if we want to put anyone other than Teppei on trail for hitting Keiichi here, it should be Satoko, as she is physically weaker than Teppei and Keiichi and might indeed need several hits to knock him out.
However, I doubt she would have needed that many, given how bumped the bat is now.
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Old 2021-01-09, 11:38   Link #483
Marina2
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One thing I want to point out is, in Gou, K1 has never met or interacted with Teppei in person at any point before, therefore, even if he hallucinated, there is no reason why he would see Teppei as a person who assaulted him. Only one person there who can see "Teppei" as hallucination was Satoko. It is possible that "Red scene" is the POV of Satoko, not K1.

Well, it can be just an oversight by script writer as well........

.............

Meanwhile, in Watadamashi-hen manga
https://imgur.com/a/eOArzNs

- Continue from what I posted before, the hand of status is also not broken in manga version as well. Little differences in the scene in manga version is K1 is the one who made the head drop and he is the one who noticed the hole.

- The ladder scene in manga version doesn't happened at the school.
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Last edited by Marina2; 2021-01-09 at 12:36.
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Old 2021-01-09, 12:24   Link #484
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
Got an objection there. Keiichi got hit only once, the bat however, shows clear signs of having been used more than just once, and it's highly unlikely Keiichi would have survived several hits with a baseball bat from someone who can lift up Rika with a single hand.

So why his point of view isn't entirely trusable, we can believe it at least to the part where he thought back against his assailant, meaning it couldn't have been used against Oishi as he had no blood on him whatsoever.
For that specific point, I can suggest 2 possible explanations:
-Ooishi actually hit Keiichi more than once but stopped after 1-3 hits thinking Keiichi was already dead.
-Ooishi only hit once but then attacked other people on his way to find Rika (potentially Tomitake and Takano, assuming the parking lot was where Ooishi came from).

Anyway, my point is that I have doubts regarding that red scene considering Keiichi state afterwards. So it is either heavily altered due to the syndrome or entirely false for whatever reason. On the flipside, Marina2 mentioned an interesting explanation: Satoko might be still under heavy stress after her abuse if she was indeed still being abused until the child welfare counsellor intervened. If she witnessed Ooishi (or someone else) attacking Keiichi with the bat and optionally got blood on her eyes, it could reflect her POV heavily influenced by the syndrome and blood.
Quote:
The more doubtable part here is imho Rena's perspective where Mion and Shion would be completely OK with keiichi and Satoko sneaking off, and even joking about it with Rena.
No, I believe that part can be trusted because it is Rika's POV.
Quote:
So if we want to put anyone other than Teppei on trail for hitting Keiichi here, it should be Satoko, as she is physically weaker than Teppei and Keiichi and might indeed need several hits to knock him out.
However, I doubt she would have needed that many, given how bumped the bat is now.
I agree Satoko isn't out of the woods yet. We don't know how far she followed her treatment after Teppei came back and due to her suspicious actions taken in Watadamashi, her actions could be either because of a L4-L5 state or actually calculated since she seems to be the most likely looper out of the cast right now.
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Old 2021-01-09, 15:16   Link #485
BBOvenGuy
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Just a note on another topic - Now that Rika has said she will hold on for five more loops, storytelling conventions suggest that she won't find a solution until the fifth and final loop. If they're only doing 24 episodes, they've either got to whip through some of those loops or skip over them entirely.
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Old 2021-01-11, 02:54   Link #486
Liddo-kun
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episode 14:

counted at least 5 men drinking, a little girl get choked a few feet from them and only two get up to help? Then instead of trying to grab the gun, the man who was not shot runs away instead? If all those men drinking jumped Oishi, the tragedy could have been avoided, even if he knows karate.. they would have smothered him with numbers. Ok, so this has to happen for plot I guess.

Last edited by Liddo-kun; 2021-01-11 at 03:39.
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Old 2021-01-11, 04:18   Link #487
Marina2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liddo-kun View Post
episode 14:

counted at least 5 men drinking, a little girl get choked a few feet from them and only two get up to help? Then instead of trying to grab the gun, the man who was not shot runs away instead? If all those men drinking jumped Oishi, the tragedy could have been avoided, even if he knows karate.. they would have smothered him with numbers. Ok, so this has to happen for plot I guess.
Uh.......they are human being who know fear and love their life. Trying to disarm a gun holder is the worst idea ever. Don't even try to attempt that unless you're trained. Run or hide is the correct decision.

Also, they are drunk.
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Old 2021-01-11, 06:27   Link #488
Liddo-kun
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still lazy writing imo. How do you explain it when Rika, the favorite of the town is being choked by a man. Only two guys come to help? Remember when Keichi is in trouble in a previous arc, an entire angry mob came to help. Well, I guess we could just believe everyone there is too intoxicated to care or is secretly a sissy.
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Old 2021-01-11, 07:52   Link #489
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liddo-kun View Post
episode 14:

counted at least 5 men drinking, a little girl get choked a few feet from them and only two get up to help? Then instead of trying to grab the gun, the man who was not shot runs away instead? If all those men drinking jumped Oishi, the tragedy could have been avoided, even if he knows karate.. they would have smothered him with numbers. Ok, so this has to happen for plot I guess.
There have been, unfortunately, several cases in recent years of people doing more or less what Ooishi did, and they have almost never been stopped except by police forces, and in some cases they were armed with just a knife.

This isn't "plot" convenience, this is exactly what happens in the real world.
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Old 2021-01-11, 23:51   Link #490
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
Uh.......they are human being who know fear and love their life. Trying to disarm a gun holder is the worst idea ever. Don't even try to attempt that unless you're trained. Run or hide is the correct decision.

Also, they are drunk.
Why Mion never even tried to use her gun? Even if it's just an airsoft gun, it would've been very useful for distraction. Also, Mion was not drunk.
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Old 2021-01-12, 07:57   Link #491
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Why Mion never even tried to use her gun? Even if it's just an airsoft gun, it would've been very useful for distraction. Also, Mion was not drunk.
I think she did try to use it right before she got shot in the head.
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Old 2021-01-12, 08:07   Link #492
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I think she did try to use it right before she got shot in the head.
If true, I guess she talked too much . Also, why she dashed towards Cloud instead of directly pulling & aiming her gun from a safer distance?
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Old 2021-01-12, 09:48   Link #493
Jan-Poo
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I'm not sure what would have accomplished shooting Ooishi with an airsoft gun other than make him even angrier. It couldn't have done more damage than what Ooishi was already doing to himself with his own fingernails.
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Old 2021-01-12, 09:58   Link #494
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I'm not sure what would have accomplished shooting Ooishi with an airsoft gun other than make him even angrier. It couldn't have done more damage than what Ooishi was already doing to himself with his own fingernails.
Aimed at his eyes. If it hits, tackle him and grab Rika away from him. It's simple logic.

It's okay if Mion missed. At least show the audience that she at least tried something smarter than running head on straight towards Cloud's gun . Nothing is more stupid than that.
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Old 2021-01-12, 10:07   Link #495
Liddo-kun
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
If true, I guess she talked too much . Also, why she dashed towards Cloud instead of directly pulling & aiming her gun from a safer distance?
she dies faster.. less work for the animators. lol
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Old 2021-01-12, 10:20   Link #496
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So she first needed to go to a safe distance, then from that safe distance she was supposed to aim at the eyes of Ooishi who was moving and thrashing around, and hit them both at the first try, then from that safe distance she was supposed to rush toward Ooishi and tackle him.

Wow...

You gotta have a City Hunter level of aim to pull that off.
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Old 2021-01-12, 10:33   Link #497
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
So she first needed to go to a safe distance, then from that safe distance she was supposed to aim at the eyes of Ooishi who was moving and thrashing around, and hit them both at the first try, then from that safe distance she was supposed to rush toward Ooishi and tackle him.

Wow...

You gotta have a City Hunter level of aim to pull that off.
In this case, a "safer distance" means "Don't just dash towards his gun, you stupid girl!". Just back off a little, grab your gun and at least try to aim at his eyes.

Like I said:
Quote:
It's okay if Mion missed. At least show the audience that she at least tried something smarter than running head on straight towards Cloud's gun . Nothing is more stupid than that.
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Old 2021-01-12, 20:39   Link #498
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I mean... it's also a sudden life or death situation, her friend is currently being grabbed/strangled, and others have seconds ago just been shot and killed. Sub-optimal split-second panicked decisions are pretty realistic here.
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Old 2021-01-12, 21:05   Link #499
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I mean... it's also a sudden life or death situation, her friend is currently being grabbed/strangled, and others have seconds ago just been shot and killed. Sub-optimal split-second panicked decisions are pretty realistic here.
Given how there were people standing around like idiots during the shooting in Vienna, and that some people threw dishes out of restaurants at that asshole, two Yakuza princesses who've always been taught that they are basically untouchable, trying to play hero actually sounds rather believable.
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Old 2021-01-13, 04:26   Link #500
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I mean... it's also a sudden life or death situation, her friend is currently being grabbed/strangled, and others have seconds ago just been shot and killed. Sub-optimal split-second panicked decisions are pretty realistic here.
It was sudden only because Mion decided to make a useless suicidal run into Cloud's gun without even drawing her gun first .

For god's sake, she is a next-in-line Yakuza boss who have been taught about violence and she also knows how to handle real gun even. Yet, it's all crumbling down before the plot.
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