Character Discussion - C.C

[mayaramayana]

True true.

Spoilers are all around S1 OPs and EDs. While in S2 you only see CLAMP's rampaging appetite in drawing Code Geass chara in 'interesting' positions.

[Silver Soul]

Originally Posted by mayaramayana

True true.

Spoilers are all around S1 OPs and EDs. While in S2 you only see CLAMP's rampaging appetite in drawing Code Geass chara in 'interesting' positions.

Exactly do we really need characters with wings all around the screen (this isn't X)
although I made an interpretation on the ending a while back but after all this it seems they were for naught as it was just there for sure display of CLAMP style than any sort of plot significance

[mayaramayana]

True true.

Back with some findings I found.

Is the R2 in Code Geass Hangyaku no Lelouch R2 has a meaning.

If I'm correct, I recall C.C. to be called as Code R by the people who experimented her.

Does this have something to do with the R2 in the season 2?

Opinions please!

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Asleep

I was watching it on youtube so it wasn't very clear (my episodes are in another comp). I have now managed to view a larger screencap It does look like she is a bird. But I think Lelouch is chained and is trying to stop her. Or it could be that she is the angel (or witch) who gave him geass, as he was chained before she arrived. So he is chained and she is saving him, perhaps...

Did clamp receive any spoilers before making the ED? I wonder if it's their perspective on the characters, or if they had some information.

Generally when something is depicted in a more of a "saviour" perspective, they would be looking at the one they are saving or in this case perhaps also depicted as coming down from above in a more "angelic" way. The colours they would use would also be less subdued as well, perhaps not exactly bright and vibrant but atleast to give the scene a more uplifting feeling and to contrast the ruins that Lelouch is chained to and give the sense that C.C "came from above" to save him to keep the "angel" theme. Lelouch could be seen as saving her, yet from his expression which is showing a more resigned expression rather then a more determined face if he is really resolved to stop her. And again, he is not looking at her, but rather his eyes are closed, seemingly in resignation or depression and facing towards the earth, while C.C is comforting him and looking towards the sky in longing.

Originally Posted by Koshimizu

No. They receive basic info on what the character is like. Then they draw everything from their personal likings and "because it's pretty this way".

For example, the reason why Rolo has black and white wings is "that looks mysterious". And the reason why V.V. is naked is "can't find clothes suitable for him".

Well I'm not saying we should hold the op and ed as gospel or something, it is just fun to interpret. And really their basic info on C.C's character may be more then what we have gotten so far in the series...

[Var]

Originally Posted by Asleep

I was just trying to show that it if it were Kallen and Lelou, people would have reacted differently. I did not say you were wrong. I am not going to add "In my opinion" before everything I post. If something is posted by me, it will be my opinion, unless stated otherwise. C.C. and Lelouch in the ED means nothing, but the crane Nunnaly throws in the in the OP is supposed to symbolize Kallen going free. You guys will see anything you want to. But when something is obviously there it is just "interesting", because obviously C.C. and Lelouch together in that picture don't mean anything. You just proved the point I was trying to make in my previous post.

You're using the wrong words to denote opinion. The word 'clearly' is not what one would use when presenting a humble opinion. The word is contradictory to the idea of an opinion but clear things are not opinions, they are obvious facts.

If you'd bother looking back I never (seriously, only in joking form) said Kallen was the crane, I simply hypothesized that considering where the show stands that it is likely her. It may turn out to be a martian for all I know, but it is unlikely all things considered. And... the ED does mean nothing, it never has. The OP is really the only source of somewhat reliable foreshadowing and symbolism.

Originally Posted by Asleep

I didn't see it that way. To me it only showed that Kallen had feelings for him. So in that sense you are right. It had a romantic atmosphere, but it was one-sided.

I never said Lelouch reciprocated her feelings, but the scene was romantic if only for her.

Originally Posted by Asleep

Yes I will disagree. Code Geass is famous for its twists so even if you don't expect anything different to happen, it probably will.

I'm sorry but Code Geass is not notorious for some unwitting twists that'd make me eat my hat out of surprise. Most everything has been foreshadowed well in advance of it occuring. People have simply come to expect the unexpected and made the expected unexpected. And once the episode airs everyone slaps their forehead for not expecting what normally would be expected. Ockham's razor.

Originally Posted by Asleep

Lelouch screamed after Shirley died, but I didn't think it was because he was in love with her. Just as you said, Lelouch has become more er...human this season. He cares for his friends. It has been happening since episode 7. No not the Kallen scene. I mean the fireworks scene. Even after whatever Kallen told him, he had given up. He was happy to find the school "empty", as it would let him mope around. But then he saw his friends waiting for him, and realised there was still more in this world he could fight for. That, not Kallen, made him go back.

He hadn't given up. Kallen did return his resolve as he was ready to follow after her, that requires resolve. The school gave him more reason to fight for himself and not just everyone else. It is silly to diminish Kallen's role in the Episode as she was the one who saved him from himself. Had she not been there he'd be off the deep end and tripping down memory lane. Why is this always forgotten? She was the one who pulled him up to the surface, had she not gone to find him, the scene with the school would never have occured, C.C. would have lost her contract, and the show would have ended.

Originally Posted by Asleep

As for foreshadowing...Lelouch saying he thinks snow is pretty to C.C. in Kallen's presence, or that he will turn into a warlock if C.C. is a witch, could also be viewed as such. And it's not even that subtle.

The scene in the cave did foreshadow something, its called jealousy. That scene has, for better or worse, already served its purpose. The symbolism from him saying he'd be the warlock was also overturned by C.C. herself when she spoke of not wanting Lelouch to be anything but a human. It showed that she cared enough for him to not want him to follow on her condemned path.

Originally Posted by Asleep

Var, your taking the time to respond to every point, made me want to ignore it rather than write back... I almost didn't reply, because it was so long...But I appreciate the way you "tear apart" each line

This discussion is meant for another thread, but oh well...

I make sure to devote an adequate time to someone's reply. Otherwise I might as well just ramble like most people do and never actually make a point while attacking the poster for reasons XYZ.

[hanseo]

seriously when are we going to see cc pilot somemore

[Silver Soul]

Originally Posted by hanseo

seriously when are we going to see cc pilot somemore

Why? she was no match for spinzaku and she teamed up with Chiba to take down Modred there's not much to her piloting abilities

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Silver Soul

Why? she was no match for spinzaku and she teamed up with Chiba to take down Modred there's not much to her piloting abilities

To be fair, Mordred was just hovering there with it's shield on, it is not like they could so anything fancy to her.

[Dann of Thursday]

Kallen's the main pilot of this show and C.C. isn't really that good. There isn't much point in having her pilot anything.

[Silver Soul]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

Kallen's the main pilot of this show and C.C. isn't really that good. There isn't much point in having her pilot anything.

Yeah who gave you the idea that Kallen is the main pilot of the show

[k//eternal]

Originally Posted by Silver Soul

Yeah who gave you the idea that Kallen is the main pilot of the show

I can't tell if this is a joke.

[hanseo]

i thought suzaku is main pilot of the show since it's all about suzaku and lelouch

[Dream_Traveller]

So Kallen's piloting in both R1 and R2 has been ignored? Gee.

[Tokkan]

Suzaku and Kallen are both the main pilots. Together. On opposite sides. This is even emphasised by the focus on the Guren and Lancelot in the recent OP.

[Silver Soul]

Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller

So Kallen's piloting in both R1 and R2 has been ignored? Gee.

Uh, no but does the show focus on her all the time or just because Lelouch is piloting his KMF does that make him the main pilot of the series considering he sucks at it compared to Suzaku and Kallen

[Dream_Traveller]

...Does piloting matter in this show as much as character roles do?

[Silver Soul]

Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller

...Does piloting matter in this show as much as character roles do?

If that were the case Suzaku and Kallen would be the main characters instead

[Kushi]

Geez, you guys take the ending images too seriously. If we were supposed to take it seriously, does that mean it'll be a Rivalz X Villeta ending? [They're draw next to each other in the ending sequence. =P]

[Asleep]

Originally Posted by Var

You're using the wrong words to denote opinion. The word 'clearly' is not what one would use when presenting a humble opinion. The word is contradictory to the idea of an opinion but clear things are not opinions, they are obvious facts.

If you'd bother looking back I never (seriously, only in joking form) said Kallen was the crane, I simply hypothesized that considering where the show stands that it is likely her. It may turn out to be a martian for all I know, but it is unlikely all things considered. And... the ED does mean nothing, it never has. The OP is really the only source of somewhat reliable foreshadowing and symbolism.

I didn't think I spoke for everyone when I wrote something. Like I said before, when I post something it's automatically my opinion. You misinterpreted it. You thought I was putting it out as a fact. Even if I was, that it is a fact, is still only my opinion. Most of the time, the so called "facts" are only different viewpoints. What is a fact to me, might be rubbish to you. And since we have no real answers, we can't prove otherwise.

I don't think the OP is very reliable either. If it is, by the looks of it, Kallen is going to switch sides.

Originally Posted by Var

I'm sorry but Code Geass is not notorious for some unwitting twists that'd make me eat my hat out of surprise. Most everything has been foreshadowed well in advance of it occuring. People have simply come to expect the unexpected and made the expected unexpected. And once the episode airs everyone slaps their forehead for not expecting what normally would be expected. Ockham's razor.

But the way you understood things could be different from what they wanted to put across. Since we can only interpret things according to our perspectives, it may surprise us in the end. Not shock but a mild surprise is possible. Like if Lelou ends up with Suzaku or even Milly I'd be pretty shocked So that is not possible. The thing is, nothing is clear at all. It's is not obvious if it will be Kallen or C.C. It could be anybody or nobody. Shirley might come back from the dead for all we know.

Originally Posted by Var

He hadn't given up. Kallen did return his resolve as he was ready to follow after her, that requires resolve. The school gave him more reason to fight for himself and not just everyone else. It is silly to diminish Kallen's role in the Episode as she was the one who saved him from himself. Had she not been there he'd be off the deep end and tripping down memory lane. Why is this always forgotten? She was the one who pulled him up to the surface, had she not gone to find him, the scene with the school would never have occured, C.C. would have lost her contract, and the show would have ended.

She did help him by throwing away the refrain he was going to take. But he was going to go after her because he hurt his friend by treating her so disrespectfully. He was snapped out of his lowly behaviour. He wanted to use her as an object; when she slapped him, he realised how he was behaving. But she did not give him reason enough to fight. Or Rolo wouldn't have been able to drag him back. He wasn't out of his depression until later, when he met his friends at the school. The whole glass dialogue is him realising he loves his friends and wants a better world for them. She did save him from taking the drug, but she did not give him enough reason to go on as Zero. He was back to his gloomy self, - although not as extreme as before, he was still wallowing in self-pity. It's important that she stopped him from taking the drug, but that in itself was not enough.

Originally Posted by Var

The scene in the cave did foreshadow something, its called jealousy. That scene has, for better or worse, already served its purpose.

The cave scene implied to me he liked C.C. Since the white snow stands for her, and he said he likes snow, doesn't hate it. Kallen was jealous alright, but I am talking about what Lelouch said here.

Originally Posted by Var

The symbolism from him saying he'd be the warlock was also overturned by C.C. herself when she spoke of not wanting Lelouch to be anything but a human. It showed that she cared enough for him to not want him to follow on her condemned path.

When did she say that? I must have forgotten, can you tell me exactly when she spoke of such a thing? You don't leave a person alone when they hate them self. Although I don't think she hates herself, but she does think she is an evil witch. The fact that she dislikes herself, makes me want her to be happy. Because by the looks of it she has always been alone and sad...

Originally Posted by demon_god04

Generally when something is depicted in a more of a "saviour" perspective, they would be looking at the one they are saving or in this case perhaps also depicted as coming down from above in a more "angelic" way. The colours they would use would also be less subdued as well, perhaps not exactly bright and vibrant but atleast to give the scene a more uplifting feeling and to contrast the ruins that Lelouch is chained to and give the sense that C.C "came from above" to save him to keep the "angel" theme. Lelouch could be seen as saving her, yet from his expression which is showing a more resigned expression rather then a more determined face if he is really resolved to stop her. And again, he is not looking at her, but rather his eyes are closed, seemingly in resignation or depression and facing towards the earth, while C.C is comforting him and looking towards the sky in longing.

That makes sense I guess

Originally Posted by demon_god04

Well I'm not saying we should hold the op and ed as gospel or something, it is just fun to interpret. And really their basic info on C.C's character may be more then what we have gotten so far in the series...

What ever little information, they have they can't know if she is longing to die...I think only the two of them know how she will end up.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Kushi

Geez, you guys take the ending images too seriously. If we were supposed to take it seriously, does that mean it'll be a Rivalz X Villeta ending? [They're draw next to each other in the ending sequence. =P]

Well she's already jumped on him...