(L) Monogatari Series Light Novel discussion

[d-one]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

I also hope more lines from Kodansha Box will be picked up (DDD anyone)? I would really love to see a SHAFT x TYPE-MOON project in my lifetime

It's gonna be my dream comes true

[ickem]

Originally Posted by Xacual

So after the current anime arc does Araragi decide to learn more about solving oddities without Oshino's help? I'm not entirely sure why him being a part vampire would prevent him from doing that kind of stuff since he says that during the episode (maybe a bad translation I dunno).

The problem is that Koyomi doesn't have the knowledge to do so on his own. There's also the fact that he is nowhere near as smart as Oshino so is really poor at thinking laterally about the Kaii.

Spoiler for end of Bake:

Oshino sets up the resolution of the Cat for Koyomi without him being aware of it, but it still required him to stumble onto the setup to take advantage of it. He disappears after Tsubasa Cat so Koyomi is sorta left on his own to take care of stuff from then on. Well, he did constantly give Shinobu lectures about Kaii in preparation for his leaving so Shinobu becomes Koyomi's source of info on Kaii.

[Lummie]

Originally Posted by ickem

Spoiler for end of Bake:

Oshino sets up the resolution of the Cat for Koyomi without him being aware of it, but it still required him to stumble onto the setup to take advantage of it. He disappears after Tsubasa Cat so Koyomi is sorta left on his own to take care of stuff from then on. Well, he did constantly give Shinobu lectures about Kaii in preparation for his leaving so Shinobu becomes Koyomi's source of info on Kaii.

Question: What happens with Shinobu after this? Does she start to live with Koyomi or does she stay in the old building? Afterall, she's weak and probably need someone who takes care of her and her donut addiction XD

[ickem]

Originally Posted by Lummie

Question: What happens with Shinobu after this? Does she start to live with Koyomi or does she stay in the old building? Afterall, she's weak and probably need someone who takes care of her and her donut addiction XD

She lives in Koyomi's shadow, where she has the power to create anything she wants. She ends up making herself a DS to pass the time.

[Lummie]

Originally Posted by ickem

She lives in Koyomi's shadow, where she has the power to create anything she wants. She ends up making herself a DS to pass the time.

Seriously!?.... She crawls in his shadow and starts living there? Does she only comes out when Araragi needs her and are the other aware off her presence? Lol at the DS XD and thanks for answering my previous question.

[ickem]

Originally Posted by Lummie

Seriously!?.... She crawls in his shadow and starts living there? Does she only comes out when Araragi needs her and are the other aware off her presence? Lol at the DS XD and thanks for answering my previous question.

She comes out whenever she wants, although I don't think anyone else knows that she's there. She did come out to make sure that Koyomi knew there was a sale at Mr. Donuts though.

[Master Assassin]

Originally Posted by Lummie

Seriously!?.... She crawls in his shadow and starts living there? Does she only comes out when Araragi needs her and are the other aware off her presence? Lol at the DS XD and thanks for answering my previous question.

I was thinking, the "crawling under Araragi's shadow" is plausible but... DS?

[cyoti]

Originally Posted by ickem

The problem is that Koyomi doesn't have the knowledge to do so on his own. There's also the fact that he is nowhere near as smart as Oshino so is really poor at thinking laterally about the Kaii.

Spoiler for end of Bake:

Oshino sets up the resolution of the Cat for Koyomi without him being aware of it, but it still required him to stumble onto the setup to take advantage of it. He disappears after Tsubasa Cat so Koyomi is sorta left on his own to take care of stuff from then on. Well, he did constantly give Shinobu lectures about Kaii in preparation for his leaving so Shinobu becomes Koyomi's source of info on Kaii.

What happens to Oshino?

[ickem]

Originally Posted by cyoti

What happens to Oshino?

Spoiler for end of bake:

He leaves town since he finished the job he was doing, which was dealing with the snake shrine. Shinobu's presence was a huge disturbance so he came to put things back in balance. The reason Koyomi's huge debt cleared was because of how important the job was.

[FRS]

Do the book explain Oshino's background or is it just left at "weird exorcist that goes around the country" ?

[ickem]

Originally Posted by FRS

Do the book explain Oshino's background or is it just left at "weird exorcist that goes around the country" ?

No, we don't really learn anything significant about him. He was just part of a occult club in college and is really talented and that's about it. Oh, and Hitagi and Koyomi aren't the only ones that are annoyed by his personality.

[AbSoLuTeMiKe]

Hey can anyone tell me where we are with the anime in according to the novel?

I want to start reading about where the anime is and then on.

Thanks in advance peeps

[ickem]

Originally Posted by AbSoLuTeMiKe

Hey can anyone tell me where we are with the anime in according to the novel?

I want to start reading about where the anime is and then on.

Thanks in advance peeps

The anime just finished the Nadeko Snake arc so ep 11 begins the Tsubasa Cat of Bakemonogatari volume 2.

[FRS]

Originally Posted by ickem

No, we don't really learn anything significant about him. He was just part of a occult club in college and is really talented and that's about it. Oh, and Hitagi and Koyomi aren't the only ones that are annoyed by his personality.

Thanks for the answers Ickem

[hei]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

1. Hanekawa... Don't be so kind to every one.
2. Oshino... Won't be here forever, Stop sticking your nose into peoples oddity business.
3. Kanbaru... Think about who your suppose to save... don't make mistakes.

Spoiler for for Zetsubo:

Sorry for a late reply.

I think it's a good observation to find those three warnings. I had not realized that, so I watched the arc again. Then, I got angry. angry at the animators. Usually that warning was presented out of context. It's inevitable for viewers to get a wrong impression like "do not be kind to everybody, Araragi!".


1. Hanekawa.
The dialogue with Hanekawa in the anime is fine. But the problem is the anime already dropped most dialogue during the Araragi-Kanbaru date(?). So viewers should hear Hanekawa's comments without knowing what's really going on, though she made a point, anyhow.

In the novel, however, readers were already given an impression that Kanbaru will not threaten the relationship between Araragi and Senjogahara, at least for now. Knowing that, Hanekawa's words sound somewhat differently. As far as I understand, she was not only talking about Kanbaru, but also about herself.


2. Oshino.
Initially, I thought Oshino is an arrogant, frivolous and greedy lolicom (He's living with Shinobu and he did not charge Mayoi and Sengoku). But it looks to me that Oshino's role in the story is to deliver the author's thought directly to readers, especially in the Nadeko arc. I will translate relevant part. Some of them overlaps with the anime.


Oshino: I have led a wandering lifer for a while, but it's first time to talk with a certain person for long. You have been continuously involved with oddities. Moreover, you tried respond to every oddity. It's odd, really. They say that once you are involved with oddity, you are more likely to be involved again. That might be true, but usually a person who experienced oddity tends to avoid it.

Araragi: ......

Oshino: By doing that, a balance will be kept. Earlier we talked about Tsundere who'd like to interfere with other people's business or take care of others. But isn't it about you, Araragi-kun. Well, but I don't think it really matters. I even envy Araragi-kun of that kind of personality. Sometimes I would talk grumpy about that, but your personality has its own merit. By the way, what will you do after I leave?

Araragi: Ah... Well.

Oshino: Oddity is always there as if it's natural, so it's not something to approach intentionally. If so, you will be an offender. Araragi-kun, you worry too much. It's overprotection. You tend to do something even if it's ok to leave them alone.

Araragi: Once I got to know, it can't be helped. I have already know a fact that the oddity exists, so I can't act as if I did not know them.

Oshino: Haha, would it be better for you to forget completely just like ClassRep-chan? It might suit to someone like you, Araragi-kun. Forgetting everything including Shinobu-chan...

Araragi: Forget everything... Impossible.

Oshino: Ah, Shinobu-chan. Ye. if I left, you should take care of Shinobu-chan. That's what you chose. Of course, you can abandon her if you want.

Araragi: Well.. Oshino.

Oshino: You should be careful all the time because she is not human. Don't develop strange empathy for her because she is a vampire. Her shape was changed, but the truth is unchanged.

Araragi: ...

Oshino: Was I grumpy? Take it easy. We are so close now, so I will not disappear without saying a goodbye. I am an adult, so I know what to do. But if you are thinking about your future after highschool, you'd be better to think about this work as well.

Araragi: Are you saying that it's irresponsible to save everyone you encounter? Hanekawa told me that it's irresponsible to be kind to everyone. But I can't be like you, Oshino. As you told, I am a 10% of vampire. I am oddity itself, so I can't be on the side of human who expels oddity.

Oshino: You don't have to think in that way. It's only about knowledge and know-how. Would it be cool to be a half-human-half-ghost ghost sweeper like a manga character?

Araragi: Even there is a specialist wearing Aloha shirts.

Oshino: What is more. Araragi-kun, if you want... whenver you abandon Shinobu-chan, you will be complete human. I hope you do not forget that.


Oh, It's much longer than expected. Anyway, if you look at the conversation carefully, Oshino never told that it's irresponsible to be kind. On the contrary, he rated Araragi's personality. During the conversation, Araragi suddenly remembered Hanekawa's comments.


3. Kanbaru
I think the Nadeko arc is similar to the Mayoi arc in terms of the development of characters. Senjogahara was introduced in the first arc, then her relationship with Araragi was settled in the next arc. Kanbaru was introduced in the third arc and her relationship with Araragi was settled in the following arc.

Considering this, can you imagine if the Mayoi arc was presented this way? All the dialogues between Senjogahara and Araragi are removed, both of them just solve the problem without any significant interaction, and then suddenly Araragi shouts "Senjogahara, tore!". The Nadeko arc was made like this.

Anyway, I will do some translation again. Unlike the Oshino dialogue, it was totally ignored in the anime. The talk happened during the ritual in the shrine.


Kanbaru: It's OK if Segoku-chan is healed, but Araragi-sempai, you really saves everyone who you encounters.

Araragi: No, it's not everyone. Well, it's as many as I can. Moreover, if it's a acquaintence, I am more concerned.

Kanbaru: I think Senjogahara-sempai likes Araragi-sempai with a kind personality. I also think that kindeness is what makes you attractive. Now I think it's fortunate that Senjogahara-sempai's boy friend is Araragi-sempai who has a kind personality. However, I have one thing to wish... If you face a situation that only one person can be chosen, please choose Senjogahara-sempai.

Araragi: ......

Kanbaru: It's up to you whether you sacrifice yourself or not. But I hope you treat Senjogahara-sempai most importantly. Well, I am not qualified to say this, anyway.

Araragi: Kanbaru, you are more than qualified to do that. Rather, because it's you, you can say that.

Kanbaru: Then, I am fine.

Araragi: As you said, I also think that it's fortunate that you are Senjogahara's kohai.

Kanbaru: Thanks for saying that.


There are lots of flirting and jokes exchanged between those two in this arc. But I think this conversation shows how things were settled. That is, Senjogahara first, Kanbaru second (eh?) By doing so, Kanbaru also gives the answer that has bothered Araragi in this arc. I think it's a priority. You can save as many as you want, but before that you must set up your own priority.


To sum up, first, Hanekawa raised a question about a responsibility and kindness, which made Araragi uncomfortable for the whole arc. Second, as Oshino talked about independence and determination, Araragi, who were pressurized by the talk, reminded of Hanekawa's question and get stressed. Finally, settling the relationship, Kanbaru gave a clue for the answer, then proved it with her body.

That's my opinion about those issue.

[Reekon]

It was said by several people that the anime didn't clearly show Nadeko's loneliness, or her real issues.

Can somebody help to clarify this by quoting some parts from the novel?

Sorry to be demanding. Thanks in advance. =)

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by hei

Spoiler for for Zetsubo:

Finally, settling the relationship, Kanbaru gave a clue for the answer, then proved it with her body.

That's my opinion about those issue.

Proved it with her body ?

How did Suruga do that pray tell ?

[tarajis]

Reading through the Light Novel Thread wants me to read it myself... but a JLPT level 3 is a no go?? right??

[hei]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

Proved it with her body ?
How did Suruga do that pray tell ?

Spoiler:

Ah, I gave you a wrong impression. What I meant was the final part of the anime (ep 10). She talked about the issue earlier (the dialog above) and then showed an example using her outstanding physical power (the final action scene of ep 10).

Saying this, I think that we can also view the issue in somewhat different angle. Hanekawa talked about "being kind to everybody" in terms of relationship, while Oshino mentioned "saving everybody" in terms of the business. So I think we can view these two things seperately. In doing so, I think that Kanbaru's words could be rewritten like this:

(1) About relation (dialogue during ritual). You should be kindest to Senjogahara-sempai. (but she did not say you should be kind only to Senjogahara-sempai. )

(2) About the business (dialogue during action: "Araragi-sempai, don't confuse which one you should save!"): You must be able to make a distinction between those who you have to save (the cursed) and those who you don't have to (the curser). In Oshino's words, between victims and offenders.

It's my opinion again. I am not very confident about what I have said. Also, there are something that still bugs me. It's Oshino's reasoning to define victim and offender (According to Oshino, everybody except Nadeko is an offender). I guess it's related to the meaning of growing-up in the Bakemonogatari world, but I cannot get it clearly. I hope I would be able to talk about it later.

[monir]

To Hei: Did you, or Ickem do a write up on the entire conversation from the novel between Araragi and Senjougahara before the inevitable "Senjougahara Tore?" If so, can I be pointed to it? Of course, I can always search the thread as a last resort.