Mahou Senki Lyrical Nanoha Force Manga Discussion

[Sansker]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Kids join military forces all the time.

Yes because kids half the size of adults and not near that experience in life or physicly strong are just the best soldiers you can recruit right? I know there is kids soldiers but they are not an official adding to a regular army.

[Sansker]

Originally Posted by Lhklan

How about the character not knowing? There are shows out there that depict the hero's analysis being wrong you know. Keeping the readers in the dark is also a good way to keep them reading.

Agreed but you need to know when and how much tell. If you keep everything in the darkness then it sucks because we don't know anything. But on this case Thoma does comes with a propel analysis and Cypha does agree with him so I think we have that here.

Originally Posted by Lhklan

Again, it had to be belieavable. Also, those things created in fiction? Either by magic - which is usually something they already know and there are certain conditions to creating things - or the character is a goddamn genius - which would still be mood if they don't have the materials.

I rest my case on the fact we are talking about future tech. Time needed should be shorter and 3 months after the date they get sounds enough for me.

Originally Posted by Lhklan

Also, kid not joining military forces in reality? Child soldiers in Aficia would like to say hi with their AK. (Note: YOu said "Military Forces", not "Official Military forces")

Agreed I miss that one but my point remains solid even with that detail out and I join this with my previous comment: future tech is simple better, limits by our tech are not necessary take in to consideration here and if they are going to be then address them instead of letting vague so we can assume I say.

Originally Posted by Lhklan

I though she already had that, they just fine tuned it more?

No Mach Caliber was not up for her killer mode, needed to be repair and then modify to handle the new energy. Accomplish in less than a week.

Originally Posted by Lhklan

... Just because an equipment is destroyed doesn't mean it's trash. ESPECIALLY if it's still in the prototype zone - like Signum's. There's tons of things that can be learn from a trashed equipments - sometime even more than a working one.

Well usually things are value on how effective they are so really failing in every single encounter and get destroy or at least damage I call them not that good. And as you say, they can learn so why we still not see any results up to date when they fight several occasions? Just saying that if it happen later was never address why it didn't happen sooner. Just a simple line like "We still have troubles with this to make them better" and that alone lets me know they are working on it but failing because of something instead I have nothing.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Sansker

I will admit I don’t know here.

That seems to be a reoccuring them. Look, dude, I'm going to ask this as nicely as I can... please go back and watch every season again. Read all the manga again. Read all the sound stage transcripts again.

Once you do that? Do it again. Do it a few more times for good measure. Because there are a lot of things you admit you don't know, that it makes us question if you ever watched the series in the first place. I'm willing to bet you did, perhaps just once, and so you missed quite a few things. Rewatch them a few times to really pick everything up.

Because, dude, it is damn frustrating to have you not know what you are trying to argue. If you wonder why everyone has problems with you, it is because of that. We just want you to be informed.

[Sansker]

I will say this: No.

I watch the series several times already and I have no plans to do it in the near future, moving on with other animes. However that doesn’t mean I can’t comment, make theories or criticize the series as it is now when I read the mangas. I will admit I don’t know everything but you base that because I don’t then I am always wrong on what I say when I already proof I am not. Many times your arguments Kaijo are who you say the facts should be look at instead of me being mistake. And while I do mistakes like all humans I also make my points as clear as I can.

[Rising Dragon]

Constantly arguing with incorrect facts just wastes time for all of us involved, though. And actually, no you don't. Half the time your points contradict themselves as you try to make them clear.

[Sansker]

But they are not contradictions I am just making my arguments. Besides this isn’t a thread about me is about Force. Let’s keep it ok?

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Sansker

I will say this: No.

I watch the series several times already and I have no plans to do it in the near future, moving on with other animes. However that doesn’t mean I can’t comment, make theories or criticize the series as it is now when I read the mangas. I will admit I don’t know everything but you base that because I don’t then I am always wrong on what I say when I already proof I am not. Many times your arguments Kaijo are who you say the facts should be look at instead of me being mistake. And while I do mistakes like all humans I also make my points as clear as I can.

You're free to discuss things you aren't informed about. However we are free to not take what you say seriously as well.

[Sansker]

And who say I am not informed? I am reading the same manga as you do.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Sansker

And who say I am not informed? I am reading the same manga as you do.

We're referring to the collective of your arguments across all aspects of the franchise, not just Force.

[Sansker]

Ok, that is enough about me. Can we not make this go any further?

[Lhklan]

Originally Posted by Sansker

Agreed but you need to know when and how much tell. If you keep everything in the darkness then it sucks because we don't know anything. But on this case Thoma does comes with a propel analysis and Cypha does agree with him so I think we have that here.

And if you tell them everything then there's nothing to hide is there? As for Thoma's analysis of Cypha, maybe he's right. just feel too cheap for me. I mean, a newbie somehow managed to analyse

I rest my case on the fact we are talking about future tech. Time needed should be shorter and 3 months after the date they get sounds enough for me.

Future TECH. TECH. Not PEOPLE. You know, the one responsible for developping, upgrading and all that jazz?

Agreed I miss that one but my point remains solid even with that detail out and I join this with my previous comment: future tech is simple better, limits by our tech are not necessary take in to consideration here and if they are going to be then address them instead of letting vague so we can assume I say.

Nope. That's one big detail there. Official and Inofficial army are 2 different things. Also, depends on the age of maturity, one country's official soldier can technically be called a child soldier in another.

And again, the tech thing: It's limited by people. Their skills are necessary to maintain, upgrade and repair all those tech. No matter how much tech advances, if the skills doesn't match it then in the end the time would take the same, if not longer.

No Mach Caliber was not up for her killer mode, needed to be repair and then modify to handle the new energy. Accomplish in less than a week.

From the Nanoha wiki: During episode 19 of StrikerS, she is reinforced to be able to keep up with Subaru's Combat Cyborg abilities, increasing her mana consumption by factor 1.4x and her weight, by 2.5x. So no new energy, only enhancing it toughness - which is easier then recalibrating a prototype weapon so that it can handle anti-magic.

Well usually things are value on how effective they are so really failing in every single encounter and get destroy or at least damage I call them not that good. And as you say, they can learn so why we still not see any results up to date when they fight several occasions? Just saying that if it happen later was never address why it didn't happen sooner. Just a simple line like "We still have troubles with this to make them better" and that alone lets me know they are working on it but failing because of something instead I have nothing.

Because they're still prototypes? Flawed prototypes at that? And this is the first time they encounter something like this? And since the Hucks are starting to act up NOW, they can't afford to sit around do some research now is can they.

[Sansker]

So they can invent all the future tech and yet be idiots who don’t know how to use it when it comes down to upgrade things. You see I am really having a hard time following you. Computers and all those craps that can make calculation and tell you about possible situation, yes, those things sure are of not help at all. Future tech means better tools and then means better execution. Just saying that.

And about Mach Caliber, yes, it was make stronger which is what I mean for the AEC weapons. They should be stronger and not break down like wet paper. With the army if we go discussing semantics here we will be here forever.

And at last, yes prototypes, they still work horrible and we can ask them to do things better. And when some do work fine and others not but they are made by the same people then I still say is a little inconsistent.

[Lhklan]

Originally Posted by Sansker

So they can invent all the future tech and yet be idiots who don’t know how to use it when it comes down to upgrade things. You see I am really having a hard time following you. Computers and all those craps that can make calculation and tell you about possible situation, yes, those things sure are of not help at all. Future tech means better tools and then means better execution. Just saying that.

Don't go twisting my words. What I mean to say is this: Even with all that future tech, the human power is still limited. In this case, they're dealing with new stuffs. You can't expect them to make leaps and bounds in advancement in such are short time. Calculations are useless if the scientists didn't even come up with it in the first place - which is a very real possiblity, seeing as there's not alot of things to know about. Then there's the fact that they also have to assemble the thing, which computer are kinda useless if there's no data input by human hands.

And about Mach Caliber, yes, it was make stronger which is what I mean for the AEC weapons. They should be stronger and not break down like wet paper. With the army if we go discussing semantics here we will be here forever.

Again, Mach Caliber need to handle only Subaru, someone they already have concrete data on. You can't expect the Eclipse infectees to sit down and let the researchers have their way. Also, each of them are different, so they have to find a middle ground between all of the,.

And at last, yes prototypes, they still work horrible and we can ask them to do things better. And when some do work fine and others not but they are made by the same people then I still say is a little inconsistent.

Different versions? Different types? Did you even think about that? Just because someone made something that works doesn't mean they can do it again on the fly.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Sansker

Still is odd how they don't connect is not Kart the one attacking them. I mean the bullets were clearly solid projectiles and he didn't have anything but that divider on him. And yes I know he shows his powers i close range but really is just odd after all the training they do and how they know there is more than one attacker. Thoma does have energy detectors and other systems in the Silver Cross. Way to show competence on our heroes. And later the Villains didn't even have a plan to escape worth of that name. I just say, people here seem to suffer from stupidity as soon as the plot needs them to.

How is it odd? The Eclipse is a virus that seemingly random abilities to those they infect. Any infected could have any sort of ability you don't know about until you encounter them. Let's face it, the only reason we know is because we actually get to see the sniper. I personally was thinking he had some sort of explosion power, or a teleportation power that shifted something nasty in there that went bang until they showed her.

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Sorry to pop your bubble but Wendy was seen carrying her own copy of Teana's Oxtongue on Ch. 29 ...i'm pretty sure it won't be long until we get Gladiator Equiped Raptors -_-

Wait, what? But she's a cyborg! She doesn't need that stuff!

Originally Posted by Nanya01

... Who are you?! What did you do with Aki, you imposter?!

Mods finally drew a zero tolerance line on the whole Signum thing, remember?

[Rising Dragon]

An Oxtongue would allow Wendi to fight effectively while using her board, which she couldn't really do before, since it was also her weapon when she wasn't using it for flight.

[Keroko]

Ah, that's true. Stable mobile firing platform and a gun.

[Akiyoshi]

Maybe i'm mistaking stuff but IIRC Wendi was able to charge and shoot energy bullets from her board while flying xDU

[Sansker]

Originally Posted by Keroko

How is it odd? The Eclipse is a virus that seemingly random abilities to those they infect. Any infected could have any sort of ability you don't know about until you encounter them. Let's face it, the only reason we know is because we actually get to see the sniper. I personally was thinking he had some sort of explosion power, or a teleportation power that shifted something nasty in there that went bang until they showed her.

You are right of course and if they were just mage I will understand not realizing this. But later Thoma shows he can analyze Eclipse powers and he has some kind of energy detector that warn him about hostile presence back when he was berserker so: why he could not use those things? He has been training for 3 months already and while I get amateur mistakes can happen I really wonder why none of the others ever stop and ask Thoma to use his own scanners. Just saying that.

[Keroko]

Well, those particular scanners were active when he was kind of going berserk. It'd make sense they would be hesitant to put him back into that mode purely for the scanners.

[Sansker]

The scanners are not part of his berserker nature but more of the automatic reaction of the Silver Cross which he gains full control thanks to Lily. He can use those when he just ask Lily to activate them.