2010-10-26, 21:50 | Link #21 | |
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Even Clannad, which I commend for making a firm choice (Tomoya/Nagisa) and sticking with it, did do some of the blending several routes into one. I wonder if there's ever been an eroge adaptation that just took one route and ran entirely with it and it alone?
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2010-10-26, 22:15 | Link #22 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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I'm also a fan of the integrated approach... but only if the team has the skills. I've seen too many trainwrecks because the production staff simply lacked the acumen to weave the stories together. I've also seen enough fairly successful attempts to know it *can* be done.
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2010-10-27, 02:25 | Link #23 | |||
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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I've been mulling my opinion over as I've read through this thread, and I think I can basically sum up my position as "I prefer unified and think it works better in general, but I also think that the nature of the source material has to be taken into account". You can probably pick up a lot of the nuances of my position from reading my earlier posts so I won't repeat them here.
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Anyway, I agree that the Key/KyoAni stuff in general tends to do "drama, friends, and family" better than romance, which probably explains why I don't like them as much as EF, Sola, True Tears, etc... I'm one of those guys who tends to enjoy stories much more if there's a good romance involved. Once again, I'm interested in hearing the thoughts of game players - is the romance in the Key games themselves stronger than in the anime, or was were the games more about "drama, family, friends" too? In general, this is true, although I do feel the need to point out that there are VNs where the routes are explicitly designed to form part of an overarching story - ie. Higurashi, Umineko, and Ever 17. In fact, I'd actually go as far as to say I don't find the individual routes/chapters in these stories that compelling when taken invidually, the whole is much more than the sum of the parts.
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2010-10-27, 03:08 | Link #24 | ||
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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I think part of the problem with the anime was they chose Nagisa's route (Well duh, afterstory is about her) and while this was the correct choice to make, her route is not very romantic and just more dramatic, in particular in Afterstory. That's why the romance never felt like a prime focus in the anime while it would have been had they gone another girls route. Quote:
I'm still working myself through Ever 17 sigh... But I am more motivated to finish it now that Remember 11 has finally been translated .
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2010-10-27, 11:54 | Link #25 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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2010-10-27, 12:41 | Link #26 | ||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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There is no way to actually merge the 3 routes for this peculiar VN, because the "triggers" of the main story are drastically different. That has nothing to do with character route, whereas heroines have their personal issues which aren't always mutually exclusive. This is also why we never say "Saber's route / Rin's Route / Sakura's route" even if we consider as such because of the romance. If you remove that part, they are way too different hence the route name, not the heroine's. Quote:
I personally dislike the omnibus format to the very core when it is about romance driven series, as its advantages are basically a mere method to please "shippers" as a whole. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I always think there is always a way to give a character its lion share of lime light and development through their route, and not always with the "crowning" pairing with the main character. In fact, having a specific pairing or another just doesn't change a character as a whole (although I will give you that it also gives the opportunity to see that character under a different light), so it isn't like a character is not "complete" without their love interest fulfilled. The first aftermath of such method is of course an obnoxious pace for the development as a whole, be it every characters themselves and when the pairing is kicking off. Furthermore, it just makes me think I'm watching multiple spin off of the same universe with little to no cohesion or blended story telling as result. It makes the storytelling much more convulated and doesn't give an integrity for the franchise itself. Of course, there are exceptions that require a different approach, but this is because the original plot cannot allow any kind of unified storytelling to begin with. And for these, they aren't romance driven one bit, although they certainly may have a certain chunk of that.
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2010-10-27, 13:07 | Link #27 | |
Spoilaphobic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Age: 37
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I support the omnibus format however hope they make the series longer so they are not pressed for time because that is the real limiter and what ultimately makes the difference.
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2010-10-27, 13:20 | Link #28 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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It isn't about being great: it is about consistency and cirmcunstances.
UBW happens because of the very specific first scene (Command Spell 1), whereas HF only occurs because of Sakura. Not going in the spoilers areas, but for F/SN, you -cannot- blend the routes because the triggers for each route do -not- work with the rest, otherwise you are going to a very critical issue in term of consistency. It has nothing to do with the romance at all. Even if you were to remove the romance (for the benefit of "what if", since HF wouldn't work without the romance), you would still have to seperate the routes. VN that involves -specific- routes that cannot occur together has a proper reason for being told several times in a different way. Otherwise, the other VN are all eligible for the unified storytelling. To me, omnibus is basically an exception because the said VN require that method in order to work properly since the merging the routes is impossible (another example of such VN: you just cannot merge Higurashi and Umineko arcs at all). However, if we take Clannad for instance, even though the routes are very different from each other, it is possible to tie them together and unified them, provided you make some changes for some characters (Kyou and Tomoyo). The routes do not have any contradicting facts conflicting each other, aside the aforementioned 2.
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2010-10-27, 15:04 | Link #29 | |||
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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(Actually, I'm still wondering if she hoped that Tomoya would pick her in the anime. Her personality type means she doesn't really give many signs either wya.) Quote:
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Of course, it had to sell terribly despite having one of my favourite Bluray extras ever (it's a guilty pleasure).
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2010-10-30, 12:21 | Link #30 |
I'll end it before April.
Join Date: Jul 2008
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I do not agree with tiose who said than with only four episodes we can't have an emotional and interesting story. Four episodes means that we have around 90 minutes which is the same length than a movie. It's more than enough to have a good story. The problem is not the format but the staff's skill.
For example, in Amagami, there are many useless moments (for example the first part of the last episode of Ai's arc) which reduce the time for character development. It's not because of the format but because of how it's used. I want also said that Amagami format is very interesting because in each arc you learn a bit more about the other charcater too and I think, it's really great. In the end, all I hope is that this format will be used more often but that doesn't mean the unified format should not be used anymore. It depends of the visual novel etc.. Last edited by Kusa-San; 2010-10-30 at 12:31. |
2010-10-30, 12:56 | Link #31 |
Okuyasu the Bird
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alberta, Canada
Age: 32
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I have compliments yet complaints about both.
Omnibus feels a little more like a visual novel. Each heroine gets the chance to be the romantic lead with the main character and their sole path/story is being focused on for a couple of episodes. However this is unrealistic and usually the other heroines are sometimes forgotten in these instances. Unified is pretty much the exact opposite, all the heroines get a good amount of equal screen-time and the way the story progresses is in a much more realistic way. However some of the heroine's stories won't get as fleshed out as much they could be and while in the source material they had romantic feelings for the lead, sometimes they aren't even implied to have such feelings in the adaptation. Plus there's only one heroine who ends up in a relationship with the main character in the end. Hard to say what I'd prefer since each has it's own ups and downs.
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2010-11-01, 21:13 | Link #32 |
NOM
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Outside the Asylum
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So the verdict is that the practicality of each method depends on the source, though personally I like unified better. Omnibus, theoretically, can work in any situation assuming an ideal case where time is not a problem (or when a staff is competent, but that's a deus ex machina). Still, there is just something about resets that feels horribly cheap to me, as if the staff just can't be bothered to put in effort. I'll admit that my opinion about omnibus isn't particularly informed, seeing as the only one I've watched is Amagami SS, but from what I've seen of unified approaches they at least tend to be more engaging. Even if it turns out horrible, I'd give it brownie points for trying.
Also, looking back at my visual novel list, I see that my favorites (Ever17, Cross Channel, et al.) put most of their emphasis on the "true route" / overarching plot instead of individual routes. That definitely says something about my preference.
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2010-11-02, 04:26 | Link #33 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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The Omnibus format is sad (unless there is a harem route).
When you go through each route, you learn about the different problems each of the character faces. You see how each character works to solve their problems. Then it resets..... As you go through each plot, you slowly realize that when the character solves one problem, they can't solve the other one - the "path not taken." I want to see every character's problem solved in all routes but in an omnibus...just like in real life...this is nearly, impossible Ugh, I feel like Ken Sugisaki now. You just want everyone to be happy but in an omnibus....they just can't be. Last edited by Fandal; 2010-11-02 at 04:37. |
2010-11-02, 15:10 | Link #34 | ||
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Join Date: May 2004
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First, with the omnibus format one heroine's arc's sale may drastically depend on her popularity. You don't have any clues about how many copies should be shipped. This is a risk. With the unified format, on the other hand, you can predict each volume sells evenly (to be fair, on the downside). Second, viewers who are not interested in the heroine or the arc on air may stop watching the series itself. (I think this is why they can't make every arc long.) That is also a situation producers want to avoid. The unified format is a safer option to make a VN with multiple routes into an adaptation. To prevent those two risks of the omnibus format, heroines show themselves in other heroines' arcs, but I wonder it's working well? Quote:
People who had played the original VN are tens of thousands at most while people who have not played the original VN and watch the anime adaptation are hundreds of thousands to millions. Your target should be the latter of course. The same goes for manga and novels. I'm not saying that they don't care for the anime's sale.
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2010-11-02, 15:32 | Link #35 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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Your example with FMA:B is not really within the context here. Square Enix is part of the production of the anime -and- publisher of the manga, so it is obvious it will benefit them in both sides.
Also, please remember we are talking about VN adaptation. In such case, the fact people are interested by the VN as result doesn't benefit directly the studio behind the anime adaptation. For all they care, the sales of the blu ray and DVD are much more important than the sales of the VN, especially there is no real way to figure if the adaptation is actually effective for the sales of the VN You never see -any- ad about the original game in any website of the anime adaptation ever. At most, you have the mandatory game studio link. Unless there are obvious evidences of VN sales spike due to anime adaptation, I don't see the relevancy of the argument.
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2010-11-02, 17:19 | Link #36 | |
Also a Lolicon
Join Date: Apr 2010
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I don't think either Unified or Omnibus works for all series. I think CLANNAD's unified format worked pretty well as most of the routes are "drama, family, friends" rather than romance. That should work fine as long as the routes that are to be fit into one aren't romantic, maybe except for one, but when all of the routes are romantic, I think too many compromises have to be made to make unified work. |
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2010-11-05, 13:58 | Link #37 | |
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Join Date: May 2004
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After my takeback, the following is meaningless. You can skip it. The reason I gave an example of FMA:B is to show how much an adaptation can make its original work famous and boost the sales of that. Generally, when people become fans of an anime adaptation, they buy its original work rather than the anime. I guess there are several reasons such as they want to know details the anime skipped or simply the original work is much cheaper than the anime. You may not see any ads in websites, but the commercials for the original game air during the anime. To be precise, it's for a port of the original game. In every VN adaptation case, a port of the original game is released during the anime airing or soon after the anime finished. TV is a powerful medium; an anime adaptation rises the sales of its original work and related products. Something wrong with it?
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2013-02-28, 19:01 | Link #38 |
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Sorry for the necro of the over two years old thread, but last I checked, that's how things roll here on Anime Suki.
Anyway, Little Busters! has changed my take on this a bit. Previously, I had a strong preference for unified over omnibus, but now I'm not so sure. Here's why. Spoiler for Major Little Busters! spoilers:
I'm starting to think that Clannad might be that once in a decade exception of where unified simply works. Otherwise, romance suffers. Would Little Busters! be better if it went with omnibus over unified? Honestly, I'm starting to lean that way. What do other people think?
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2013-02-28, 21:01 | Link #39 |
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Austria
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Maybe if you're watching for romance. But for me, Little Busters! works better the way it is, because the theme is friendship, and while he do have a male protagonist, a lot of the appeal is the interaction of all the cast amongst each other. You have this core original group, and they open up and integrate all the new-comers. This gives me a pretty good feeling of the Little Busters as a friendly and fun environment. For me, this is why I enjoy the show, and why I actually enjoy it more now than I did initially. I'm afraid that this friendly-environment theme wouldn't come through in omnibus and the show would never have had a chance to grow on me.
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2013-02-28, 22:42 | Link #40 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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Your example is simply not the best one, though if you used other VN examples, you would have a better point IMO. Spoiler for Not really a LB spoiler, but for those sensitive people:
The obvious limitations of omnibus in general is budget and time. Most VN adaptions get nothing more than 1 cour of material. Think something like Koy Senkyo to Chocolate, which I think really suffered from trying to mesh together too many routes and was really lacking as a result. This is the type of story where either they should have omnibus'd it with many episodes, or just choose one route from the beginning like Mashiro-Iro Symphony, which more or less stuck to one route. These are stories though where romance is very critical to each of the routes in some way, so it makes sense that "omnibus" would be more satisfying. Not all VN's really care about romance though.
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