2011-09-13, 12:03 | Link #24381 | |
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1) You have to imagine that what King is writing is rather high quality fiction (wether you like it or not) that has to fullfil a certain standard of his writing. Yasu'd probably be just writing for pleasure in the beginning. When I was writing more often (can't do it right now) and would just write to get some ideas down I would easily manage to get 20-30 pages during a day. 2) The story was said to be written in a diary style, crammed on each page. So it's probable that she was using a bullet point style, which makes it much easier to write, as you don't have to consider as much every time. 3) 20-30 pages are quite a lot if you try pushing them into a bottle, especially a wine bottle. I don't know if Ryűkishi tested this so maybe he got this one wrong (though he'd had to be quite stupid) but even if you insert them one after another, there is a certain limit to what you can actually fill in. 4) All the mysteries in the stories (locked room, character constellations, tricks) are probably even copied from famous novels in Umineko's world. I couldn't imagine that Christie's works exist but all the others not. 5) None of the characters are actually made up for the story, even if the fantasy characters were included they would have been created by Maria and Yasu already. I'm also quite fond of the idea that most of the stories weren't conceived on the days before the incident but already floated in Yasu's mind because of the stories she had read...she just made them more fitting to the current situation. |
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2011-09-13, 12:30 | Link #24382 |
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20-30 pages in a single day? You probably didn't do much else I guess. Why would Shannon do that the day Battler returned to Rokkenjima? While organizing some kind of game and pretending to be a servant in the meantime? And then writing some more while people are killing each other.
I still think it's extremely improbable.
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2011-09-13, 13:31 | Link #24383 |
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Here's a page I found that might help with the discussion regarding writing speed.
And here is a compilation of hurricane weather reports in the United States from 1984. Note how precise the precipitation radar images are. I know this post was from a while ago, but when and where did RK07 say this? |
2011-09-13, 14:14 | Link #24385 | |
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2011-09-13, 14:36 | Link #24386 | |
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*nods* Also the siblings wouldn't be so desperate for money, if it were to happen a year earlier, they wouldn't be so suspicious about Kinzo's death and therefore wouldn't feel like Krauss was tricking them. I can't really predict what would have happened if Battler had returned a year later, I guess Yasu assumed that, since she wouldn't challenge them to solve the epitaph or to the mystery game they would manage to handle their financial problems with other means that didn't include murder and, by the next year, they still wouldn't have been in the mindset to kill anyone (though while I can believe she can guess what would have happened if Battler had happened a year sooner it would be harder to guess what would have happened if he had turned a year later). |
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2011-09-13, 14:37 | Link #24387 | |
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Well everyone said from start that Yoshiya could be read as Yoshua, but what that's supposed to mean?
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2011-09-13, 14:39 | Link #24388 |
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The issue with the writing is it doesn't seem very consistent overall, so we're left with no obvious guideline from Ryukishi:
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2011-09-13, 14:50 | Link #24389 | |
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Yoshiwa- Yoshoua- Another of Jesus Name Sayo- Yaso - Archaic Jesus Yasu- Iasu- Iesu- Current Jesus (Precedence for e=a, Enje is pronounced Ange) Lion- Leeon- Leone- Lion of Judah- Another name for Jesus (His emblem is a Lion soooo) I always found that that the scene with Maria describing her perceived symbolism with her name kinda strange. Why did she use Immanuel instead of the far more common Jesus? Immanuel is used only once in the new testament. RK07 did his research and used the least common name to mask other symbolism. e- Also Shannon and Kanon are both religious in nature as well. Shannon meaning "Graced by God" and Kanon being a form of Canon "An official of the Church" Last edited by Cao Ni Ma; 2011-09-13 at 17:07. |
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2011-09-13, 14:53 | Link #24390 |
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I think "massive" is relative to what you would expect a person to be able to write in one or two days, since Ootsuki uses that to justify his disbelief on that. Also I think that "bulky" is probably a more direct translation, but it leads to the same conclusion.
As for the bottle I think it's probably a wine bottle. I believe you could fit in as much as 60 pages inside one depending on how thick the paper is. That's an important variable. I have books that have about the same number of pages but one is more than twice as thick as the other.
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2011-09-13, 14:59 | Link #24391 |
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If you start getting into specific materials requirements, the idea that these things would be dashed off in a hurry gets pretty questionable.
And notebook paper can be pretty thick relative to the stuff some books are printed on. To say nothing of some sort of diary/writing/calligraphy paper.
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2011-09-13, 15:06 | Link #24392 | |
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2011-09-13, 15:41 | Link #24395 |
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Well Renall, asuming you are right Beatrice would have had at least two years to plan everything. Of course that would be "post-incident" but still pre-planning ^^;
Anyway I decided to try how many sheets of paper I could fit inside a bottle, for science! I din't have a wine bottle so I used a 1 lt. plastic water bottle. the height is more or less the same and the aperture is more or less as wide. I used normal A4 printer sheets. One thing I could confirm is that an A4 sheets is a little shorter than a regular bottle, that means you can roll it vertically and that saves a lot of space. I tried with 10 pages first. It was feasible but not really easy. I tried with 20 pages next. It's practically impossible. I used as much strenght that I could but it simply couldn't fit. Maybe using some kind of instrument or tool you can squeeze them better, but that's definitely not something you can do with a human strenght alone. I tried to remove pages until I managed to squeeze 14 pages inside. It was hella hard and I ruined the pages in the process. That being said, you can probably write a lot on A4 sheet supposing you can write very small and on both sides. There are also probably slimmer pages than what I used, and Beatrice probably used a smaller format than A4. Still I think that my first assumption was way too optimistic. I'd say 40 pages at max with the best conditions. 30 to be realistic. P.S. While doing all that I couldn't help to think how funny it would have been if Beatrice wrote her stories first and then only later noticed that they wouldn't fit in a bottle.
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2011-09-13, 15:51 | Link #24398 |
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Then again if the pages are short you don't need to make them pass all at once and you can take advantage of the fact a bottle is a lot larger in the bottom. You can use duct tape to make them stay rolled up and so on.
It's technically feasible I think, but nothing suggests Beatrice used that method from any kind of image available. EDIT: Ninjaed by roger. Yeah as you said you can definitely increase the number of pages you can insert if you don't do them in a single roll.
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2011-09-13, 16:53 | Link #24399 | |
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I tried to check the times used in the games to discover if there was a recurring pattern either in the happening of the start of the murders or in the discovery of the gold but we've no such luck. Anyway, if you're curious... About the murders: In Ep 1 & 2 the first 6 corpses are found around 6:00 Am of Oct 5. Ep 3 also keeps the first 6 corpses being discovered after 6 Am Ep 4 instead said the first 6 murders took place between 22:00 PM and 22:40 Pm of Oct 4. The phone call warning the siblings about them should have taken place short after 22:40 PM. Since likely things went in a very different way from what we were shown I'm not sure the murders really took place around this time. Ep 5 didn't really give us the time for the murders as Erika's assumptions that the 'victims' were discovered around 7:00AM and killed in a time that goes from 24:00 and 1:00 AM was proved to be wrong. Krauss should have been killed just after the phonecall so after 7:00 AM... but likely the others were killed later... Ep 6 try to make it looks like murders took place short after 24:00. It's unknown when they really took place. Ep 7 have the murders take place after midnight. Battler was seen last time likely after 12:30 AM (George and Jessica had their 'test' around midnight, Battler around half a hour after them) About finding the gold: In Ep 3 it happens at around 10 Am of Oct 5 In Ep 5 it happens after 10:00 PM and before 10:47PM of Oct 4 In Ep 7 it happens after dinner and after George has declared to Shannon but before midnight. On 5 oct the boat was expected to come at 9:00AM of the day after. About the explosion: Ep 7 said the explosion is supposed to happen at midnight. I could try and say that the gold was discovered before midnight and murders started after it but it'll probably be just a wild guessing. Anyway if someone can work out something from those datas I'll be curious to know. |
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2011-09-13, 17:02 | Link #24400 | |
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The message bottles were discharged as false because they didn't include Eva's survival so I doubt the police really took time to check if they described the typhoon and the rain and wind intensity exactly. Also it's possible the messages just says 'it started raining around (insert time)' and maybe 'during day 5 it was raining too' and that's all. After all it's unlikely the typhoon was the main topic of the messages, at best it was just background information. |
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