[Anime] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - General Discussion

[Levani]

Yeah, I guess one would have to nitpick every scene if they read the VN first, hence why I never did.

The anime doesn't need nitpicking to be shown why it's crap. It's a bad stand-alone and a complete mess, character wise, mystery wise and everything that makes Umineko - Umineko.

[TheSoreika]

Originally Posted by Levani

The anime doesn't need nitpicking to be shown why it's crap. It's a bad stand-alone and a complete mess, character wise, mystery wise and everything that makes Umineko - Umineko.

I have to agree with Levani here. I was introduced to Umineko through the Anime. When I was finished with it I felt like it was missing a lot as a mystery that made it unsolvable. I think the greatest thing about the Anime is that it will get you to read the visual novels and/or the manga .

[Levani]

I think the greatest thing about the Anime is that it will get you to read the visual novels and/or the manga .

So many people have been tuned off by it too... They cannot grasp the idea behind magic and Battler's logic of denying the witch. A lot of them claim that Battler is stupid for denying it when it's right in front of him in the form of Beatrice. Anime didn't make it clear that the GameBoard and the MetaWorld are two separate places that don't intertwine. Messing this up is pretty bad.

Furthermore, you have crap-load amount of characters in Umineko and the anime just brushes it off and introduces them one by one and it expects you to care and remember them all. Mystery is a core part of Umineko, therefore the characters in it are just as important. If you don't know who is who by the end of the anime, clearly they screwed up.

As for the mystery itself, it throws you locked room murders one after another without any breather, in the end the viewer either gets really confused or stops caring. In the VN, we have a breather before a new one pops up, plus reasoning behind these murders through discussions between the family and the narration Battler provides are equally important.

I can name tons of reasons why Umineko anime is crap and it's no wonder that it got canceled. Please, anyone who is remotely interested in this story, do yourself a favor and read the VN.

[Mr. Dent]

As somebody who actually bought the US release of the Umineko anime for $104... I really would not recommend it to somebody who hasn't read the Visual Novel or the Manga. The art style is literally yaoi- Not kidding, it's the same character designer as Junjou Romantica and a lot of the same people worked on both, resulting in a strange artstyle that doesn't reflect the original spritework or the tone of the show. The animation is almost always off model, the pacing is baffling, and the character development is nil. The big reason I fell in love with Umineko was the Ushiromiya family, and how fully realized they all are. The anime kind of says "Yeah, these characters are here, sometimes they die."

I admit it's a guilty pleasure of mine, but I didn't buy it because it's a good show. I bought it because I'm obsessed with the story, and I'll take whatever localized materials I can get. Hell, I think the packaging is much more enjoyable than the actual show.

[xPearse]

Well, I just finished watching the sixth episode and I'm a very pissed. Granted that the first two episodes were actually pretty good. The third and fourth were mediocre at best. The fifth was atrocious, with it stupidly including the whole staff room extra thingy (I mean WTF) and ending abruptly. And the sixth was an utter disaster. Shannon was even cosplaying an a Touhou character (I think) for crying out loud. Though R07 is a huge fan of the latter so its probably a reference, but was it in the VN? I'm curious. Either or, gah, am I pissed. And R07 reusing the whole "find out the truth" thing from Higurashi boiled my blood. Also, as you guys said above, the anime can either be a gateway to people for the VN, or just turn them off completely. But I'm kinda wavering in the middle at should I or should I not at the moment. Let's just hope the anime doesn't get any worse, which it probably will.

[Mr. Dent]

Originally Posted by xPearse

Well, I just finished watching the sixth episode and I'm a very pissed. Granted that the first two episodes were actually pretty good. The third and fourth were mediocre at best. The fifth was atrocious, with it stupidly including the whole staff room extra thingy (I mean WTF) and ending abruptly.

The Staff Room bit works in the Visual Novel, as it appears to be along the lines of Higurashi's Staff Room enough to fool the reader into a false sense of security, while also setting it up as Purgatory, and letting it work for the main story. It works in the manga, because they used their writing chops and framed it as Battler awaking from a strange dream, and made him as confused by it as the reader would be. The anime adapts it straight, and it is baffling. However, the main meat of the story takes place in Purgatario, so they couldn't really leave it out.

And the sixth was an utter disaster. Shannon was even cosplaying an a Touhou character (I think) for crying out loud. Though R07 is a huge fan of the latter so its probably a reference, but was it in the VN? I'm curious. Either or, gah, am I pissed.

It was in the VN, although Jessica also sings a song from Touhou in the VN, as opposed to her character song in the anime. The PS3 also fives her some random dress instead of a Touhou dress, for some reason. It never bothered me, because Higurashi also had some goofy and intrusive references, like Chie-sensei literally being lifted from Tsukihime.

And R07 reusing the whole "find out the truth" thing from Higurashi boiled my blood.

Do you mean Maria's bottle? Well, that fulfills a totally different function than the one in Higurashi, so it never bothered me, especially considering Umineko is Higurashi's sequel.

Also, as you guys said above, the anime can either be a gateway to people for the VN, or just turn them off completely. But I'm kinda wavering in the middle at should I or should I not at the moment. Let's just hope the anime doesn't get any worse, which it probably will.

Oh, it absolutely gets worse. During the fourth arc they forget there's even a plot so they can spend more than like 30 whole minutes animated scantily clad girls cuddling a shota. You have nothing to look forward to.

Honestly, quit the anime now. It will not do you any favors, and, in fact, may taint your read through of the novels.

[Levani]

he fifth was atrocious, with it stupidly including the whole staff room extra thingy (I mean WTF) and ending abruptly.

And this is exactly why you should not watch this crap. That is not a "Staff Room Extra".

Spoiler for Spoilers of Umineko's Meta World:

It's the Meta World, Purgatory, the higher plain of existence outside the territory of the real world. A place where witches, demons, angels, gods and monsters exist. tl;dr It's an after-life. This is the place where the actual Umineko's plot is happening. The argument of whether the crimes on Rokkenjima were supernatural or done with human hands.

Honestly, xPearse... I know you well in enough from the Higu boards to say that I don't think Umineko is a story that you will enjoy, be it anime, VN or the manga. It might be best to simply drop it.

[xPearse]

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

The Staff Room bit works in the Visual Novel, as it appears to be along the lines of Higurashi's Staff Room enough to fool the reader into a false sense of security, while also setting it up as Purgatory, and letting it work for the main story. It works in the manga, because they used their writing chops and framed it as Battler awaking from a strange dream, and made him as confused by it as the reader would be. The anime adapts it straight, and it is baffling. However, the main meat of the story takes place in Purgatario, so they couldn't really leave it out.

Oh, right. I think I understand now. Also, spoilers dude. I didn't exactly want to know that.

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

Oh, it absolutely gets worse. During the fourth arc they forget there's even a plot so they can spend more than like 30 whole minutes animated scantily clad girls cuddling a shota. You have nothing to look forward to.

I'm not liking that at all. Eww. Though they (Deen) did try to sell Umineko with fan service and the like, so I guess something stupid was to be expected.

Originally Posted by Levani

And this is exactly why you should not watch this crap. That is not a "Staff Room Extra".

Spoiler for Spoilers of Umineko's Meta World:

It's the Meta World, Purgatory, the higher plain of existence outside the territory of the real world. A place where witches, demons, angels, gods and monsters exist. tl;dr It's an after-life. This is the place where the actual Umineko's plot is happening. The argument of whether the crimes on Rokkenjima were supernatural or done with human hands.

Honestly, xPearse... I know you well in enough from the Higu boards to say that I don't think Umineko is a story that you will enjoy, be it anime, VN or the manga. It might be best to simply drop it.

Oh, I just assumed it was sort of the same thing. My bad. Also, I'm not one to drop shows that I have started watching so I've gotta stick it through, sadly. FYI, I've only ever dropped a show once in my entire lifetime, and it was Space Dandy. But I probably will check out the VN sooner or later. Also, purgatory? Is this Lost? Wait, don't answer that.

[Mr. Dent]

Originally Posted by xPearse

Oh, right. I think I understand now. Also, spoilers dude. I didn't exactly want to know that.

Don't worry, it's not a spoiler. When you select the Tea Party from the menu, the narration literally frames it as occurring in Purgatory.

I'm not liking that at all. Eww. Though they (Deen) did try to sell Umineko with fan service and the like, so I guess something stupid was to be expected.

Don't remind me. I never wanted to see Eva's tits. (Honestly, I'm surprised we never got a Kumasawa body pillow.)

Oh, I just assumed it was sort of the same thing. My bad.

It's understandable, since new readers are also supposed to think it's the same thing. At that point in time, Umineko is supposed to be a sort of dark parody of Higurashi. We've got paranoia, folklore, the plea for someone to find the truth, and then the Tea Party. And Maria literally plucks the "Everyone needs to believe for a miracle to come true" bit from Higurashi, but uses it in a downright creepy fashion. You're supposed to be getting deja vu, until it goes into a completely different direction.

Also, I'm not one to drop shows that I have started watching so I've gotta stick it through, sadly. FYI, I've only ever dropped a show once in my entire lifetime, and it was Space Dandy.

It pains me that you have to sit through this when there's a great alternative.

[xPearse]

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

Don't worry, it's not a spoiler. When you select the Tea Party from the menu, the narration literally frames it as occurring in Purgatory.

Oh, right. Thanks for the info.

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

Don't remind me. I never wanted to see Eva's tits. (Honestly, I'm surprised we never got a Kumasawa body pillow.)

Huh? Don't you find her attractive? And it's not like her breasts are drawn like bean bags like on the right.

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

It pains me that you have to sit through this when there's a great alternative.

I know, though it's just that I really don't have the time to read VN's at the moment. I'm kinda busy, so this sort of stuff is the alternative, even if it may be inferior (understatement, I know).

[Mr. Dent]

Huh? Don't you find her attractive? And it's not like her breasts are drawn like bean bags like on the right.

Not with her bizarre doe eyes clearly not that of a human being. But you're right, Natushi should have that looked at, it seems she doesn't have any nipples.

I know, though it's just that I really don't have the time to read VN's at the moment. I'm kinda busy, so this sort of stuff is the alternative, even if it may be inferior (understatement, I know).

Right... But that doesn't mean you have to get through this right now... ...maybe wait until you have time...

[haguruma]

Originally Posted by xPearse

I know, though it's just that I really don't have the time to read VN's at the moment. I'm kinda busy, so this sort of stuff is the alternative, even if it may be inferior (understatement, I know).

I'd say that it's still a better idea to take a look at the manga.
It seems very long, but due to the artstyle and sometimes huge panels it is actually a rather fast read and much more enjoyable than the anime. Though I have to admit that EP1 and 2 tried a little bit too hard to replicate the style of the Higurashi manga.

[xPearse]

Originally Posted by haguruma

I'd say that it's still a better idea to take a look at the manga.

I'm not really a big reader when it comes to manga, so whenever I get off my ass and take the next step, it'll probably be the VN. And I don't really like the idea of seeing the same story unfold three times.

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

Not with her bizarre doe eyes clearly not that of a human being. But you're right, Natushi should have that looked at, it seems she doesn't have any nipples.

Well, the eyes are at an angle and they both look sort of sleepy or taunting, so there's that to consider. Though nipples can't be drawn due to laws in Japan when it comes to specific things, and her hands are covering them.

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

Right... But that doesn't mean you have to get through this right now... ...maybe wait until you have time...

Well, if there's an anime of anything, I usually hit that up first, so there's no helping it. Anyhow, I'll eventually get around to the VN someday. Hopefully I'll have forgotten everything that happens in the anime by then.

[Levani]

This is...masochism xD

[haguruma]

Originally Posted by xPearse

I'm not really a big reader when it comes to manga, so whenever I get off my ass and take the next step, it'll probably be the VN. And I don't really like the idea of seeing the same story unfold three times.

The problem that unfolds here is one that came up recently.
Ryukishi largely re-editet the final Episode (EP8) together with the artist. So the manga is highly superior and really satisfying, while the last VN Episode is often considered an at best incoherent, at worst unsatisfying end to a great series.

If you don't like manga, you should still give the manga of EP8 a chance over its VN counterpart.

[xPearse]

Originally Posted by haguruma

The problem that unfolds here is one that came up recently.
Ryukishi largely re-editet the final Episode (EP8) together with the artist. So the manga is highly superior and really satisfying, while the last VN Episode is often considered an at best incoherent, at worst unsatisfying end to a great series.

If you don't like manga, you should still give the manga of EP8 a chance over its VN counterpart.

I'll take that into consideration. Thanks.

Anyhow, I've got a few questions. Battler is meant to determine how the killings were done without magic and deny that is exists. Okay, I get that. But what I find odd is that he hasn't even mentioned the fact that how he is viewing the events unfold with Beatrice is out of our terms of reality, and can't be explained rationally. So how can he deny that magic exists? Also, wouldn't he have saw those furniture's appear from the floor, or did he not observe that? Is either addressed in the VN? I'm confused. Furthermore, everyone's reactions when they find out that people have died and when they see the bodies are very unrealistic and robotic. Is that how it is in the VN?

P.S. - I'm just after watching episode 10, FYI.

[Levani]

So how can he deny that magic exists?

Battler is not denying magic, he is denying Beatrice's claim that the culprit behind the Rokkenjima massacre was a witch, using magic to kill people.

I'm confused.

And you will continue to be confused on the entirety of the anime.

Furthermore, everyone's reactions when they find out that people have died and when they see the bodies are very unrealistic and robotic. Is that how it is in the VN?

Of course not, didn't I say the anime kills all sort of characterization? The characters in the anime are robots, they're not interesting, they're just there to die.

I just don't understand, you have so many people telling you that it's terrible and that it's presenting the source material to you in the wrong way, yet you continue to watch it.

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by xPearse

I'll take that into consideration. Thanks.

Anyhow, I've got a few questions. Battler is meant to determine how the killings were done without magic and deny that is exists. Okay, I get that. But what I find odd is that he hasn't even mentioned the fact that how he is viewing the events unfold with Beatrice is out of our terms of reality, and can't be explained rationally. So how can he deny that magic exists? Also, wouldn't he have saw those furniture's appear from the floor, or did he not observe that? Is either addressed in the VN? I'm confused. Furthermore, everyone's reactions when they find out that people have died and when they see the bodies are very unrealistic and robotic. Is that how it is in the VN?

P.S. - I'm just after watching episode 10, FYI.

The huge problem of the anime is that it cut so much explanation that you can't truly understand the story, not mentioning it cut character development, characterizations, messed up some crimes so that they're really only possible if magic is at work and generally failed to transmit the spirit of the story.
The only thing that can be saved is the music... which however is good in the VN as well (and well, one might not like Ryukishi's sprites but they're really expressive and in the end you get used to this and if you really can't you can try using the PS3 sprites).
I started with the anime as well and, by the end of it, ended up being confuse even more than you are now.
Then I read the VN and the manga and finally figured out things.

There's nothing wrong if you want to watch the anime first. But generally there's so much that's wrong in it that the fastest answer is 'read the VN or the manga'.

In the past I tried making a comparative analysis just for Ep 1 between the Vn, the anime and the manga and... well, the anime messed up way too badly, to the point it's not even worth to explain it, one just pretend the anime never existed and gets done with it.

The manga instead manages to go from merely holding its ground in the first episodes to being definitely more awesome than the Vn in the last one. So if you've no time I'll definitely recommend the manga, not the anime.

[xPearse]

Originally Posted by Levani

Battler is not denying magic, he is denying Beatrice's claim that the culprit behind the Rokkenjima massacre was a witch, using magic to kill people.

Oh, right. But you still didn't answer my other questions. Does he see everything that we see (like the furnitures appearing out of the floor) or only when he appears with Beatrice?

Originally Posted by Levani

Of course not, didn't I say the anime kills all sort of characterization? The characters in the anime are robots, they're not interesting, they're just there to die.

Could you be more specific? What exactly are their reactions like in the VN? Though I guess I'll see the differences myself when I get around to the VN.

Originally Posted by Levani

I just don't understand, you have so many people telling you that it's terrible and that it's presenting the source material to you in the wrong way, yet you continue to watch it.

Well, I'm not exactly watching it alone, since I'm watching it with my brother. So even if I wanted to, I can't exactly drop it. Then again, I like to stick things through until the end, even if they are terrible.

[Levani]

Oh, right. But you still didn't answer my other questions. Does he see everything that we see (like the furnitures appearing out of the floor) or only when he appears with Beatrice?

The Battler who observes the world does, the one in the game-board doesn't.

Could you be more specific? What exactly are their reactions like in the VN? Though I guess I'll see the differences myself when I get around to the VN.

They cry, they scream, they're in shock, in despair and so on.