Genshin Impact

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

edit: question to other Dehya users. Which did you decide to have more of? HP or ATK? Mine currently has 31k hp and 1,975 atk.

EM

I built mine to go all-in on EM, with the 4-star weapon that turns her EM into attack for the party (it isn't much, like 112 or something, but that's still a pretty good constant). The high EM also makes it so if she steals burn ownership, it doesn't tank the burn value.

[relentlessflame]

Furina's Demo Video is out:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/U5VJ2RMwRAY

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

In addition to being jam-packed to the brim with hilarious little touches (note the character changes to mock the different archons while on the swing Also, rock-paper-scissors with the crab. ), it combined with the teaser and main 4.2 trailer provide some pretty major hints at the upcoming plot (just as they did with Nahida's two trailers in 3.2, but this one is much more covert).

(I guess by getting the musical ending out of the way here, it reduces the odds that the plot itself will end that way. )

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by GDB

EM

I built mine to go all-in on EM, with the 4-star weapon that turns her EM into attack for the party (it isn't much, like 112 or something, but that's still a pretty good constant). The high EM also makes it so if she steals burn ownership, it doesn't tank the burn value.

name of weapon?

interesting. I did not know Dehya can be built on EM. Might try it out when I have spare resources again.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Furina's Demo Video is out:

In addition to being jam-packed to the brim with hilarious little touches (note the character changes to mock the different archons while on the swing Also, rock-paper-scissors with the crab. ), it combined with the teaser and main

first, I'm glad she did not kill the poor otter.

the rest of the video is so entertaining and beautiful. Furina-sama knows how to please people!

it's worth saving 352 total Intertwined Fates for her. 120 USA + guarantee, 112 Europe + guarantee, 120 Asia.

[belatkuro]

Furina in 70 pulls but no Charlotte. Collei became C6 and Sara is now C5.
C1 Furina in 50 pulls then I got Charlotte.
Wanted C1 Charlotte but got C2 Furina instead in 20 pulls. And lots of Beidous(already C6) in between those that could have been Charlotte instead.

I dunno what to say. Still have some primos for Navia so I hope this new area can replenish my stocks since Navia is just the start of the flood of waifu units for Fontaine.

[haseo0408]

I got her! Furina is mine!. Took many pulls but I still have 52, with the Primogems I can obtain from this version and starting phase 1 of 4.3 I have a guaranteed for Navia!.

[MeoTwister5]

Got Furina C0 and Charlotte C1 in 80 pulls winning 50/50. I was already C6 on Collei and Beidou before this so just got wishes back.

Debating on getting C1 Furina since her weapon sucks overall and so does Baizhu's donut.

[Liddo-kun]

Asia pull first. Other servers tomorrow.

not very good, the only consolation is I got 3 Charlotte. Spent 140 Intertwined Fates. Lost the 50/50. There's at least 7 or 8 Beidou, and 3 or 4 Collei. Some 10-pulls have two 4 stars.

lost the 50/50 at 80. I'm now guaranteed. Spent 60 more, got no 5 star. Furina would probably come in the next 10 or 20 pulls.

[TnAdct1]

Had enough Intertwined Fates (along with saving an additional 10 for a future pull) to do two 10-pulls.

Managed to get Charlotte in the first pull and Furina in the second.

[Liddo-kun]

Europe pull this morning.

120 Intertwined Fates. Fewer than what I have in Asia, but guaranteed here.

got Furina at 70. Kept pulling, but no more 5 star. I got 4 Charlotte.

will pull a bit more to trigger a 5 star, to get Furina C1 or at least get a guarantee.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

name of weapon?

interesting. I did not know Dehya can be built on EM. Might try it out when I have spare resources again.

Makhaira Aquamarine

Also makes her a pretty good Burgeoner.

[Klashikari]

I didn't really want to comment on the Archon Quest until patch 4.2, and in general, I'd say it was decent enough with less "filler-ish" content compared to previous nation AQ. 4.2 also managed to fix the dreadful pacing that was 4.1 (the whole prison segment went on a glacial pace with all the back and forth and irrelevant discussion/minigames).
They managed to make most characters charming on their own rights instead of relying on gimmick stuff and all. General plot outlines were good enough, but unfortunately, I do think there are still many issues when it comes to execution and screenplay.

Spoiler for 4.2 Archon Quest spoilers:

• This isn't just with 4.2, but I do think Furina's screentime was really minimal most of the time, so there is very little character exposure aside of her grand introduction, Liney's trial and her "chat" with Arlecchino. Because of this, there isn't really much stuff to explore until shit hits the fan. If anything, I found her character to be generally backloaded. It really makes her look passive until you realized what Focalors forced her to do and despite the flashback telling you otherwise. Honestly, I believe she should have been with the group during their search for clues in the ruins. And speaking of which, I'm not sure why she didn't take action when Poisson's disaster occurred, such as sending relief teams and the likes and overseeing the operation.

• The early part of 4.2 AQ was quite slow and actually lacked urgency until what happened at Poisson area. If anything, I think it would have made much more sense to immediately start with Poisson disaster right after the traveler and paimon left Meropide Fortress, which in turn prompts Neuvilette and the rest to press on Furina. This would actually gives room for Traveler to bond with Furina a little bit before being stuck with Furina's refusal to explain herself, which would prompt their desperate attempt to force a trial. And to be really honest, I think characters agreeing on a trial was a bit sudden with very little content that would make them conclude they should indict her for pretending to be a god.

• The trial itself was quite simplistic on its own and it really doesn't paint Furina in a good light when it comes to oration. She has been doing this for centuries, but the only trials we have seen so far in-game, both Liney's and hers, pretty much don't flatter her by any means, demonstrating her very limited abilities. I would have expected her to hone her deduction skills to make up for for her complete lack of divinity but alas it was quite superficial. I understand the writers made her trial "hard to watch" on purpose, but it felt more like a public lynch session than really the Traveler and Neuvilette cornering an elusive individual.

• Focalors' plan was pretty reckless for a lack of better words. Not only it was quite the gamble (be it the requirements needed to overthrow Celestia's influence on Fontaine but also what could happen if Celestia decided to retaliate), but I think her rationale for keeping Furina in the dark didn't make sense. Since Furina had to pretend to be the archon for so long without much detail, it had posed way more risk of exposing the charade altogether. I'd argue it would make more sense for Furina to know what was Focalors was planning to do, and as such, it would be more interesting to see Furina trying to cooperate and/or outmart her by finding a better alternative. There are also weird decisions such as not giving any support/insurance to Furina such as, I dunno, a vision or elemental powers that could at least be clutch if someone were to suspect her or attack her?

• Whale fight wasn't particularly "impressive" given the stakes. Gameplay aside, it was so alien it doesn't really feel like an impending disaster for Fontaine.

• Minor gripe, but I think Skirk's intervention was a bit contrived and was done purely for some outlandish lorebombs.

• Finally, I'm a bit baffled how Furina left her station unceremoniously. There wasn't a direct aftermath of the end of the prophecy (similarly to how the game made Nahida overthrowing the sages offscreen) nor actual interactions with Furina right after that.
  Her story quest does address her state of mind to a certain degree, just like Ei's, but frankly, MHY has again cut corners when it comes to conclusions (similarly to how Nahida's toppling the sages was done completely offscreen for whatever reason). It is yet another "show, don't tell" issue MHY keep failing hard, by making Neuvilette telling how she left without much going on.

On the other hand, it is good to see Furina being a rather interesting support enabling different team compositions, although I think they went a bit overboard with the HP drain.
Since I have no plans pulling either Kokomi or Baizhu, I will probably make do with Charlotte, Jean and Yaoyao depending on the team main dps.

[MeoTwister5]

Navia leak flood is out and HOLY SHIT.

C1S1 Navia here I come!

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

I didn't really want to comment on the Archon Quest until patch 4.2, and in general, I'd say it was decent enough with less "filler-ish" content compared to previous nation AQ. 4.2 also managed to fix the dreadful pacing that was 4.1 (the whole prison segment went on a glacial pace with all the back and forth and irrelevant discussion/minigames).
They managed to make most characters charming on their own rights instead of relying on gimmick stuff and all. General plot outlines were good enough, but unfortunately, I do think there are still many issues when it comes to execution and screenplay.

In general (as is not unusual ) I had a much more favorable impression, although I cannot wholly disagree with your criticisms. As usual, it's a case of how much you weigh different factors in your appreciation of the story, and I'm personally a bit more swayed by emotion and intent than the more technical flaws of execution. In a broad sense, the way they tied together all the plot threads, lore aspects, and philosophical ideas was a huge success to me.

Spoiler for Archon Quest 4.2 plus Furina's Character Quest:

Definitely, "backloading" the development of Furina is a strategy that changes the way you view her actions in retrospect, but you never really got to know her beyond the surface. On the other hand, the fact that you never got to know her beyond the surface is also the point and part of what makes her tragic, so I get what they're going for. Her inability to take decisive action when things starting falling apart is basically Furina herself finally falling apart at the seams, as was her performance during the trial. It certainly wasn't "like her" but again that was also the point. They did also foreshadow this somewhat earlier in the story, but I do agree it makes her character development rather backloaded. Still, I thought they did a good job.

I do think there was something slightly off about how they portrayed the sense of "the fate of Fontaine is in my hands" in the Traveler near the beginning of the 4.2 quest after Poisson. They were trying to portray the Traveler's sense of dread as they went about the little tour of Fontaine, asking everyone how they'd handle the coming prophecy coming true, but they didn't quite fully convey the Traveler's internal thoughts here and their emotions. Sometimes they came across as oddly disconnected from what was happening, and you're supposed to understand that this is because they became engrossed in "what can I do to stop this?" It creates a bit of a disconnect between the audience and the Traveler because we in the audience are much more focused on "what is going on and why" and less about "what are we going to do about it" (which is really out of our hands -- although this too was the point).

And yeah, Focalors' plan is... certainly a strategy. Like, it worked so it's hard to be all that critical, but you tend to think surely there were better ways. I think we have a pretty good sense now the Heavenly Principles don't work the way average people tend to think it does. If there were really an omniscient/omnipotent god up there who was watching all that was going on, they were not going to be "fooled" by Furina or not be able to "see" what Focalors is up to. The whole premise of "where the gaze of the gods does not fall" (originally from Dainsleif and now purposefully referenced here) is evidenced by fact, but raises much deeper questions about who/what their "god" actually is. And we see now that the seat of the Archon has been broken and a dragon sovereign had their powers restored -- did she not think that would rouse the divine? Instead, Focalors seems to believe that the most important thing to the divine isn't a matter of "divine will" or "exacting retribution" or whatever you might think if you were personifying them, it's just the letter of the law: the prophecy, in the broad sense, must be fulfilled so that fate is not a lie -- that this is all the Heavenly Principles truly cares about. Any other related consequences won't matter, because they checked the "Furina crying alone on her throne while Fontaine is flooded" checkbox. And again, Focalors was so far proven right in this, so clearly it doesn't work the way people might expect.

I do agree the in-story whale fight was extremely abbreviated... but seeing as they also introduced a "tone down the difficulty upon failure" toggle (à la FFXIV) I can probably guess at their logic. Their metrics probably showed that too many new players were getting stuck at story boss fights, so they're really de-emphasizing it. (However, you could also conversely argue that having this toggle gives them an excuse to emphasize it more. Perhaps the pendulum will swing the other way.) As a proportion of time spent, certainly the "balance" between cutscene and battle in 4.2 was almost all cutscene with the battle feeling not fully conveying the sense of scale/risk. Part of this is of course because of the rather hilarious/silly use of Childe here -- "here's been fighting it for weeks and has already weakened it some for you" and then "that's good enough will let Childe do the rest. *yoink*" Obviously it's to show how Skirk treats Childe, but it's still sort of not so satisfying to us as "the big battle." Still, though, abbreviated though it was, I thought it was pretty neat.

As for Furina's "unceremonious departure"... honestly, I saw some others complain about this, but I personally never felt that. It seemed intuitive to me that this would happen because her role was over. The scene of her stepping out of the Opera house and realizing they beat the prophecy was, at least to me, enough of an epilogue at that moment. But yes, that is knowing that her Character Quest immediately followed. Honestly, it would probably be a better idea in the future for them to just include this character quest as a mandatory post-Archon quest follow-up (without requiring character keys) because it was absolutely designed as the true epilogue. I just immediately went straight into the character quest knowing this, so I think others who didn't do that would certainly find the ending a bit lobsided.

Anyway, for me, I liked the conclusion very, very much on the whole, even though certainly there's always room for improvement. It also aligned pretty closely to my predictions, since it built directly on what was carefully foreshadowed, but still managed enough small twists to provide some surprises. With the new lore revealed, looking forward to what they do next in the Interlude, and then on to Natlan.

[belatkuro]

Hearing a tiny bit of Natlan at the end of the new AQ makes me kinda hope

Spoiler:

that we somehow get dragon mounts in there as the nation gimmick.
Neuvillette mentioned dragons coexisting with the people and that the nation prefer war. So naturally, that would lead you to think of dragon riders that go to war.

Sniffing copium early for this.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by GDB

Makhaira Aquamarine

Also makes her a pretty good Burgeoner.

where do you get that? From pulls or craftable?

_________________

USA server pull. 140 Fates.

this is the luckiest server for me.

got Furina in 50 pulls + 2 Charlotte. Pulled 20 more times, got Keqing + Lion's Roar. Pulled 70 more times, no 5 star, but got more Charlotte.

got 5 Charlotte from this server. And it feels like I'm just one 10-pull away from C1 Furina.

Spoiler:

______

got curious. Who is Sara?

Originally Posted by belatkuro

Furina in 70 pulls but no Charlotte. Collei became C6 and Sara is now C5.

[MeoTwister5]

I... have a slightly different view of the events of 4.2. Especially with how Furina ended up as. Poor girl.

Spoiler for spoilers:

When you think about it, much of the the entire persona of Furina as she was declared the Archon was due to the people of Fontaine's more narrowed view of what a god's divinity, and thus personality, entails. Furina adjusted her entire facade to the needs and wants of Fontaine's people in what they viewed an Archon would and should act, forcing Furina to adjuct accordingly to meet their "needs", even when such needs go very much against her real personality. She tried the kind approach when she ascended, but as the people wouldn't take a humble and meek Archon seriously, this forced her to change if only superficially.

In the end she had to feed into the Fontainian view of what Archonship was, and how an Archon should be. In many ways, her suffering of 500 years wasn't just because of the inherent need to act as the face of the real Archon who was working behind the scenes to fix the prophecy, but that the people forced upon her a need to act in such a way that goes against who she really was.

Even if she had to keep up the Archon facade for 500 years, it would have gone so much smoothly and easier for her if the Fontainians didn't subconsciously force her to act like someone she wasn't. If they accepted her initial personality and approach to the position, she wouldn't have had to suffer wearing a mask for 500 years.

So yes, even if her position was very lopsided and unfair from the start, she would have had an easier time if she wasn't forced to be someone she wasn't. While clearly the HP would need to be convinced of her Archon divinity , I suspect they would have believed it nonetheless if the people of Fontaine just accepted her as she was, without the need to play the role of an arrogant figurehead. If she could act like the Archon she wanted to be, without all the need always show their high and mighty aloofness from human society, I still think it would have worked.

But she didn't get that chance. She had to play the role of an Archon's personality as demanded by her people, and had to suffer for it.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

...

I wouldn't say the themes and ideas were bad (although the notion of Justice wasn't particularly well discussed during Fontaine arcs). In fact, I think the general plotline for all archon quests is good enough (even including the more divisive arcs such as Liyue and particularly Inazuma). If we were to summarize each nation main plot in 5-10 lines, it would be fair enough. The thing is that the way how they presented such plot devices and themes really feel quite awkward multiple times hence why I couldn't help but note things that look a bit too out of place. Emotionally speaking, they did a good job in term of fleshing out most characters, but I wouldn't say it could make up for its shortcomings.

Spoiler for Archon Quest 4.2 & Furina's Story Quest:

Sometimes they came across as oddly disconnected from what was happening, and you're supposed to understand that this is because they became engrossed in "what can I do to stop this?" It creates a bit of a disconnect between the audience and the Traveler because we in the audience are much more focused on "what is going on and why" and less about "what are we going to do about it" (which is really out of our hands -- although this too was the point).

I think the problem is more the way how MHY writers keep avoiding "show, don't tell" tenet, which leads to awkward transitions and narration that is borderline unreliable (notably that ploy where Furina is transported to the Opera). I might sound harsh, but they still don't make things go "organic" when characters are trying to move the plot in another direction, which really gives the impression they are cutting corners.
For instance, I really think the characters barely debated over Furina's circumstances and silence, and really were trigger happy with the idea of imposing a trial on her. They even skipped commoners asking for answers from Furina after Poisson's disaster. The situation escalated quite quickly (a bit like how the Resistance was fending off the Shogunate army and then we were at Inazuma city barely few minutes later). Frankly, instead of that mess of the Meropide arc, it should have been the finale that needed 2 parts: first part regarding the prophecy, the poisson disaster and the aftermath, and the second part dealing with Furina herself.

And yeah, Focalors' plan is... certainly a strategy. Like, it worked so it's hard to be all that critical, but you tend to think surely there were better ways. I think we have a pretty good sense now the Heavenly Principles don't work the way average people tend to think it does. If there were really an omniscient/omnipotent god up there who was watching all that was going on, they were not going to be "fooled" by Furina or not be able to "see" what Focalors is up to. The whole premise of "where the gaze of the gods does not fall" (originally from Dainsleif and now purposefully referenced here) is evidenced by fact, but raises much deeper questions about who/what their "god" actually is. And we see now that the seat of the Archon has been broken and a dragon sovereign had their powers restored -- did she not think that would rouse the divine? Instead, Focalors seems to believe that the most important thing to the divine isn't a matter of "divine will" or "exacting retribution" or whatever you might think if you were personifying them, it's just the letter of the law: the prophecy, in the broad sense, must be fulfilled so that fate is not a lie -- that this is all the Heavenly Principles truly cares about. Any other related consequences won't matter, because they checked the "Furina crying alone on her throne while Fontaine is flooded" checkbox. And again, Focalors was so far proven right in this, so clearly it doesn't work the way people might expect.

I don't think it is really an issue when it comes to justify why Celestia and the Heavenly Principles didn't do anything during those centuries, because, let's be honest, the writers have clearly room for some weird justifications for that (just like how they can't make their mind when it comes to how people get their vision).
I was more baffled by the premise of her plan altogether. It isn't just Celestia but also Fontaine people that Furina had to deceive for so many years. Aside of Furina's reasonable argument about her age, she didn't offer much resistance when it comes to the traveler's party accusations at large. That's why I'm not too sure why she was dropped with little to no tool at her disposal. If anything, since Furina was practically a regular human being, it is actually even less conceivable that she could last for so long without any assistance. Sure, the writers wanted to give more weight to her resolve and perseverance, but it cast a rather unflattering light on Focalors and break my suspension of disbelief in this case. And beyond that, as I mentioned, it is very difficult to comprehend why Furina wasn't privy to critical information which could actually have help her immensely on the long run.

Obviously it's to show how Skirk treats Childe, but it's still sort of not so satisfying to us as "the big battle." Still, though, abbreviated though it was, I thought it was pretty neat.

It isn't just the difficulty and length of the fight, but also the "scale" of it. Sure, the whale could be seen a cosmic threat, but the presentation was pretty mundane after its attack in the Opera courtroom. After that cutscene, it was just a large and slow enemy without any immediate connection to the prophecy aside of "it is going to devour the primordial sea power. I think it would have been better if the initial and final cutscene was more of a group effort (like how practically everyone in Liyue was ready to face Beisht. If the whale appeared in a partial dimensional space visible from Fontaine, with certain key characters contributing to that encounter, it would have more impact in general and would be perfectly suitable as part of the "world ending prophecy".

As for Furina's "unceremonious departure"... honestly, I saw some others complain about this, but I personally never felt that. It seemed intuitive to me that this would happen because her role was over. The scene of her stepping out of the Opera house and realizing they beat the prophecy was, at least to me, enough of an epilogue at that moment. But yes, that is knowing that her Character Quest immediately followed

It isn't really about her role, but the pay-off so to speak. Furina was basically forced to carry out a nightmarish duty, alone, for 500 years. After she demonstrated her resolve at several occasions, a lot of people, me included, expected a follow-up conclusion/epilogue to validate the character efforts. I didn't expect Furina to have her epiphany or find a new way of life immediately after the prophecy was thwarted (her story quest worked fine for this), but it would have been a closure to her role as "Focalors", leading to character development/closure, and as well as more interactions with the cast. Instead, she simply left which really make her look like a very minor character, even though her efforts were necessary for it to happen.
Let's imagine if Nahida didn't show up during the party after the grand finale of Sumeru AQ, but instead, we have Alhaitham plainly telling the traveler what went through for Nahida as a side note, only to see her much later with Scaramouche interlude. It is once again a case where the story truly needs a "show, don't tell": instead of Neuvilette explaining what happened to her, it would have made way more sense for the Traveler to find Furina at the Opera, telling her it is over, and Furina finally exposing her feelings to the relevant characters, leading to a more level headed abdication later on. This would serve as an actual validation of her efforts and some kind of "reward", sort of. In term of narration, it would counterbalance the pretty emotional heaviness that was incurred by her backstory.

Overall, the plot in general is fairly better than the hot mess Liyue and Inazuma were, but I still think the writers really should improve on their execution in general. There are still way too many contrived plot elements, awkward transitions and uneven pacing, which clearly expose the writing skill difference among the team, especially compared to the abyss main storyline and the world quests tied to it.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

where do you get that? From pulls or craftable?

Pulls. Forget what weapon I was going for when I got it, tbh. Maybe Raiden's weapon a year ago?

[haseo0408]

I did another 10 pulls after I got Furina and I got Baizhu easily, now I have 52 pulls left, more than enough to get Navia after I finish looting the new map and finish every single quest I can get my claws on. I have been using Kokomi as my healer for more than a year after I got her in her third rerun in version 3.0. Somebody told me Baizhu is the best healer you can get for Furina in your team.

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by haseo0408

I did another 10 pulls after I got Furina and I got Baizhu easily, now I have 52 pulls left, more than enough to get Navia after I finish looting the new map and finish every single quest I can get my claws on. I have been using Kokomi as my healer for more than a year after I got her in her third rerun in version 3.0. Somebody told me Baizhu is the best healer you can get for Furina in your team.

Oddly enough, most things I've read for healer pairing with Furina is Jean. Generally you want someone who heals even characters who are off-field so I suppose Baizhu works too.

Dammit now I'm thinking of rolling him. I lost 50/50 on my Furina C1 attempt to Diluc who is now C4.