Romance in Macross

[Traece]

Originally Posted by kilroy0097

Alto is projecting his mother's sickness and death onto Sheryl with her illness and future inevitable death. To Alto, Sheryl's future death mimics his mothers and hence his feelings for Sheryl are double fold. Whatever feelings he had for Sheryl before are now amplified.

Then he also made a promise.

So it's a double whammy. He's stuck on Frontier unless some kind of miracle changes his mind.

Pretty much. It's nice to see a Sheryl and Alto kiss though. Well... Yet another one. Can't exactly keep those two apart at any point unless Ranka directly intervenes and then Alto's VF decides to spontaneously combust into a heap of useless material and then land in front of an old Macross vessel...

As far as sex goes... I doubt they had sex, YET. Alto and Sheryl probably wouldn't have sex unless it was directly implied some how, but then again the whole kissing in the dark scene and all that does make for a great scene to do that. The main issue is... Aren't they actually in Alto's family home? So that leaves me to think Sheryl would probably be too loud.

[indr0008]

Originally Posted by Traece

The main issue is... Aren't they actually in Alto's family home? So that leaves me to think Sheryl would probably be too loud.

is that why we have his brother on ep 23 preview looking angry?

[Westlo]

Alto's brother - How could you betray me and the legion of yaoi fangirls like Crisis

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by Traece

As far as sex goes... I doubt they had sex, YET. Alto and Sheryl probably wouldn't have sex unless it was directly implied some how, but then again the whole kissing in the dark scene and all that does make for a great scene to do that. The main issue is... Aren't they actually in Alto's family home? So that leaves me to think Sheryl would probably be too loud.

Don't know why but I bust out laughing when I read that.

[Teletha]

So it's a double whammy. He's stuck on Frontier unless some kind of miracle changes his mind.

Well, I agree he's stuck in a way. He can't leave her or he'd look like the asshole of the century. So either she'd have to forcefully let him go (meaning she'd win in the end anyway, for again being so selfless) and tell him to go save Ranka, or they'd have to work together to do it. Meaning she'd win anyway. I'm still calling her going out with him singing. Yeep.

I just can't see a way for him to get out of it, not that I think he wants to. He's got to take responsibility for life.

[ippus]

Still....by anime standards, the 'resolution' of the triangle is...way too early. It makes me nervous that he still has a few episodes to go, seeing as most romance animus revolve around placing the final coupling at the very end.

...Very nervous.

I still feel something evil is lurking about on the horizon snickering at me.
It doesn't help that Ranka's on this "I be star crossed damsel" situation;
Uhggg;;; nervous nervous nervous;;

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by ippus

Still....by anime standards, the 'resolution' of the triangle is...way too early. It makes me nervous that he still has a few episodes to go, seeing as most romance animus revolve around placing the final coupling at the very end.

...Very nervous.

I still feel something evil is lurking about on the horizon snickering at me.
It doesn't help that Ranka's on this "I be star crossed damsel" situation;
Uhggg;;; nervous nervous nervous;;

We should have one episode of relationship development, followed by one episode of fake-out, followed by the last episode, where he finally decides on Sheryl.

Maybe Sheryl pushes him away at the end of 23, he goes for Ranka in 24, in 25 he comes back for Sheryl? Ah, I don´t know... spoilers make it sound as if he stays with the fleet the whole time.

[nanatsusaya]

I think he will join Ozma and go to save (or stop?) Ranka from whatever stupid things she intends to do, and then come back to Sheryl.

[ippus]

On a pattern like that, it would honestly be more of a Ranka ending considering she's already given a possible fake-out :/
I know most people are viewing Kawamori as the animu relationship God, but we should brace ourselves just in case he is finally going senile and considers airplane folding a form of relationship bonding :'D

AFTER ALL RANKA LEARNED TO MAKE ONE TOO *SHOT*

[nanatsusaya]

Originally Posted by ippus

On a pattern like that, it would honestly be more of a Ranka ending considering she's already given a possible fake-out :/
I know most people are viewing Kawamori as the animu relationship God, but we should brace ourselves just in case he is finally going senile and considers airplane folding a form of relationship bonding :'D

AFTER ALL RANKA LEARNED TO MAKE ONE TOO *SHOT*

No I think Kawamori has already given many fake-outs throughout the series for both Sheryl and Ranka. Let's see:

Ranka (ep1-4) --> Sheryl (ep5-10) --> Ranka (ep11-17) --> Sheryl (ep18-22 + 23?) --> Ranka (ep24 when he learns the truth about her and change side) --> Sheryl (ep 25 when everything is over)

Alto swung back and forth too many times At every single parts Ranka and Sheryl have respectively given the chances to shine and have significal developments with Alto, so I think the last two are possible too given how much Kawamori loves toying with us :P

The latest development of SherylxAlto was so strong I doubt he could pull of another trick to make Alto swing to Ranka that would leave the fans NOT to rage and feel cheated

[Urei]

Originally Posted by nanatsusaya

The latest development of SherylxAlto was so strong I doubt he could pull of another trick to make Alto swing to Ranka that would leave the fans NOT to rage and feel cheated

Yes, I really can't see where Kawamori could build such a strong relation between Alto and Ranka right now. If we consider SDF here then it's almost impossible. The relationship between Hikaru and Misa was much deeper then Hikaru and Minmay's. It was build differently. It was mature.

Still, I'm guessing we will get a scare or two. And this ending thing really bothers me.

[KiNA]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

Don't know why but I bust out laughing when I read that.

Neither am I.. And I'm reading this post at 5 am in the morning


I have to asked both side.. What do you think of the opposite character... Do their flaws resulted from a poor character development? or they are planned that way? Do you think there's a better character possible for a better competitors in this triangle?

I know some peoples still capable to love a character even if the said character flawed/poorly developed ( I'm one .. despite most peoples here hate her, Lacus Clyne is probably one of my favourite character ever .. majority opinions be damn , Or Kaede Fuyou, I wont trade her for any other Shuffle girls.. screw friendship.. neh justin )

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by KiNA

I have to asked both side.. What do you think of the opposite character... Do their flaws resulted from a poor character development? or they are planned that way? Do you think there's a better character possible for a better competitors in this triangle?

I don't have anything against Ranka, I for one used to adore her character. I think for me though, as the series went on I was constantly disappointed by her actions.

I doubt her flaws are result of character development, I fully believe she is as she was intended to be portrayed. A young girl under the protection of a surrogate older brother breaking out of her shell. We're supposed to watch her through her ups and down.. and as much I could relate to her on a daily basis, I suppose that's where she lost me.

Throughout the entire series (until recently) she was passive and unsure... unable to decide things. She brooded over her feelings for Alto and never acted on them only to fall into depression. All she did was follow and only moved if spurned/prodded to do by another.

But that's OK, it's understandable. It was part of her development...

Imo, if Ranka had reached her Ep21 self earlier, she would have made one heck of a statement towards the triangle. Unfortunately in my eyes, her breaking of the shell moment comes a little too late.

It's just a matter of preference, but I prefer someone who is strong willed as opposed to shy and timid. It's also why I've taken a liking to tsundere characters... but mostly, those characters who are willing to stick it out for what they believe in or love.

I know some peoples still capable to love a character even if the said character flawed/poorly developed ( I'm one .. despite most peoples here hate her, Lacus Clyne is probably one of my favourite character ever .. majority opinions be damn , Or Kaede Fuyou, I wont trade her for any other Shuffle girls.. screw friendship.. neh justin )

I agree, I love Lacus... and Kaede, oh Kaede... I wish you had won. You deserve love and happiness in all shapes and forms.

*shivers* I remember the shipping wars during Shuffle! Especially against a certain member of the Asa-sempai fanclub. Now that was some intense stuff that put this shipping war to shame...

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by TwilightHack

I don't have anything against Ranka, I for one used to adore her character. I think for me though, as the series went on I was constantly disappointed by her actions.

Anything specific?

I doubt her flaws are result of character development, I fully believe she is as she was intended to be portrayed. A young girl under the protection of a surrogate older brother breaking out of her shell. We're supposed to watch her through her ups and down.. and as much I could relate to her on a daily basis, I suppose that's where she lost me.

I agree. Her developement and portrayal, for the most part, were handled more meticuliously than anyone else in the series. Off the top of my head, there was that scene in episode twenty where she threw a fit for the sake of slapping her, but otherwise she acted in ways that made sense and didn't feel patronizing.

Throughout the entire series (until recently) she was passive and unsure... unable to decide things. She brooded over her feelings for Alto and never acted on them only to fall into depression. All she did was follow and only moved if spurned/prodded to do by another.

I don't think she was depressed over Alto. She did try to get closer to him a number of times, but Sheryl would get in the way in some shape or form. Otherwise, she was busy with other stuff, like Idoling things up, saving humanity, or in need of rescue herself.

Imo, if Ranka had reached her Ep21 self earlier, she would have made one heck of a statement towards the triangle. Unfortunately in my eyes, her breaking of the shell moment comes a little too late.

I liked how she ended the triangle on her own terms. I probably see her actions differently than most, but I liked how she tried to get to know him better, even after giving up her little idealised vision of him.

It's just a matter of preference, but I prefer someone who is strong willed as opposed to shy and timid. It's also why I've taken a liking to tsundere characters... but mostly, those characters who are willing to stick it out for what they believe in or love.

I like characters that face difficulties, challenges, and work to overcome them. Ranka's pretty much the closest thing we have to do that in Frontier.

I agree, I love Lacus... and Kaede, oh Kaede... I wish you had won. You deserve love and happiness in all shapes and forms.

I also liked Lacus. I suspect people don't really appreciate the situation she was in for the later half of Seed, because Plant's internal politics weren't really at the forefront of the series. And they pretty much papered over her true contribution in Seed with a malleable Plant population that couldn't think for themselves without Lacus Clyne telling them what to do in Destiny.

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Anything specific?

Mostly her lack of self-confidence, passiveness, and one-track Alto mindedness. She had many chances step-up her game but never did so. I don't know how many times I thought to myself... "Ranka, you love him... do something for crying out loud!"

I know that supporting Ranka like that is against my Sheryl shipping ways, but that's how I felt.

I agree. Her developement and portrayal, for the most part, were handled more meticuliously than anyone else in the series. Off the top of my head, there was that scene in episode twenty where she threw a fit for the sake of slapping her, but otherwise she acted in ways that made sense and didn't feel patronizing.

Yes, for some reason Ranka was never able to grasp my full attention. I don't know...

I don't think she was depressed over Alto. She did try to get closer to him a number of times, but Sheryl would get in the way in some shape or form. Otherwise, she was busy with other stuff, like Idoling things up, saving humanity, or in need of rescue herself.

This one is tough but I still believe that the entire situation between Alto and Sheryl is what led her to depression. I believe that Ep11 is a great example of her brooding over Alto and Sheryl. I was actually glad she rebounded and by Ep15 she a new found new confidence in herself. The Sheryl x Ranka duet for Alto was pure win.

I liked how she ended the triangle on her own terms. I probably see her actions differently than most, but I liked how she tried to get to know him better, even after giving up her little idealised vision of him.

I agree. She was finally thinking for herself and I can't give her enough props for that. I was so happy that she finally grew up... unfortunately in my eyes it was too late a timing and marred by her sudden departure.

I like characters that face difficulties, challenges, and work to overcome them. Ranka's pretty much the closest thing we have to do that in Frontier.

While I admit Ranka's path has been a path of growth and challenges, I relate more to Sheryl than Ranka. From the highest high to the lowest low, Sheryl reached both extremes of the spectrum and yet did her best to remain strong. For that, she has become one of the best female leads ever at least in my book.

I also liked Lacus. I suspect people don't really appreciate the situation she was in for the later half of Seed, because Plant's internal politics weren't really at the forefront of the series. And they pretty much papered over her true contribution in Seed with a malleable Plant population that couldn't think for themselves without Lacus Clyne telling them what to do in Destiny.

I don't think people like Lacus because she was the "Goddess of Seed" and represented "All that is Good" in the series. When you put anyone on a pedestal of that caliber, the person on the pedestal bound to draw a lot of criticism.

Hehe, that I suppose because a majority of her lines in the show happened to be "Kira!"

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by TwilightHack

Mostly her lack of self-confidence, brooding, and one-track Alto mindedness. She had many chances step-up her game but never did so. I don't know how many times I thought to myself... "Ranka, you love him... do something for crying out loud!"

I meant specific actions or lines, although I don't think she was as one-tracked on Alto as you might think. I like to think that whenever she thought "Alto-kun" it fit in the scene, rather than indicative of her overall mindset or focus. She was still able to focus on her work. Able to perform. She didn't really wait around for him to give his approval or attention.

That's why I think he was some kind of fantasy or crush, and built up to be more than he was in her mind. Children especially tend to think someone they "love" is somehow more perfect than they really are. Sometimes it gets to the point that their love interest is the center of their existence, which didn't happen with Ranka thankfully.

I think she realised she was giving them far too much credit, and when your delusions are presented to you in their raw form, it can be a painful and disappointing experience.

I know that supporting Ranka that way is against most of my Sheryl shipping ways, but that's how I felt.

I think all the times Ranka was stopped from confessing, it was really more of a save than anything. It'd have hurt alot more when Alto didn't live up to her expectations.

Yes, for some reason Ranka was never able to grasp my full attention.

She's common. Nothing particularly fantastic about her character, and probably nothing you haven't heard or seen before. Still, I appreciated the fact she was better developed than anyone else in the series, and that generally scenes that featured her weren't portrayed as anything other than what they were.

This one is tough but I still believe that the entire situation between Alto and Sheryl is what led her to depression. I believe that Ep11 is a great example of her brooding over Alto. I was actually glad she rebounded and by Ep15 she a new found new confidence in herself. The Sheryl x Ranka duet for Alto was pure win.

I don't know what you mean by depression.

I agree. She was finally thinking for herself and I can't give her enough props for that. I was so happy that she finally grew up... unfortunately in my eyes it was too late a timing and only to be marred by her sudden departure.

It probably would have happened sooner if her support base wasn't made up of morons that were only interested in promoting her love life and career. Ozma was a obviously a loving parent, but I don't really think imparting wisdom and personal experiences was really his bag.

While I admit Ranka's path has been a path of growth and challenges, I relate more to Sheryl than Ranka. From the highest high to the lowest low, Sheryl reached both extreme ends of the spectrum and yet did her best to remain strong. For that, she has become one of the best and favorite female leads in my book.

I think she's a complete failure in terms of developement, portrayal, and story relevance. She's a hollow character, with hollow dialogue, and a hollow storyline.

I don't think people like Lacus because she was the "Goddess" of Seed and was the incarnation of all that was "Good" in the series. When you put anyone on a pedestal of that caliber, the person on the pedestal bound to draw criticism.

Hehe, that I suppose because a majority of her lines in the show happened to be "Kira!"

Maybe in Destiny. She had some of the best lines and dialogue in Seed, while also shouldering one of the largest personal burdeons.

[TwilightHack]

@Wesley84 -

Honestly I didn't come to pour salt on old wounds so I wont continue further. Everything we are addressing and readdressing right now has already been dragged out and discussed time after time during many episodes prior.

Please feel sift through the threads and posts. Either I or someone else has already answered everything that needs addressing to an extent where I don't feel as if I need to repeat it here.

Also, KiNA asked a question and I answered. You should do the same instead jumping my own opinions.

Now I believe I have entertained you enough for today. Happy hunting.

[indr0008]

wow, twilighthack, that's abig heart u have there

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by indr0008

wow, twilighthack, that's abig heart u have there

1) I was bored so I answered KiNA's question.
2) I love Sheryl but I don't think badly of Ranka.
3) I don't want to drag on argument that's already been constantly and heavily discussed in-depth.. I'm not biting the bait!

---

4) I'm confused as to what context I should take your words?

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by KiNA

I know some peoples still capable to love a character even if the said character flawed/poorly developed ( I'm one .. despite most peoples here hate her, Lacus Clyne is probably one of my favourite character ever .. majority opinions be damn , Or Kaede Fuyou, I wont trade her for any other Shuffle girls.. screw friendship.. neh justin )

Them's fighting words!

I wouldn't trade Asa for any other girl in Shuffle either. Or any two girls. She was my favorite from the prologue episode and only got better as time went on(though they had to make Kaede and Asa complete WTF's the final 3-4 episodes ).

To throw gas on the fire, I'd say Kaede deserved Rin the least. She gave the guy freaking nightmares for years. He could never see her as a love interest after what she did to him.

I think Ranka was planned to be this way, to emphasize the whole growing up issue. I don't think it was an accident that she turned out the way she did. She just makes Sheryl shine even brighter.