It was riki's dream,they all died with the explosion.(?)
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Originally Posted by Leo_Otaku
Actually there are theories that this happened, just like in Clannad.
I really, really doubt we're supposed to take either anime ending that way.
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Originally Posted by BloodyKitty
Yeah, we can totally take it like that.
Nah, I think it's a pretty crazy and overly morbid fan theory.
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The ending of the first 15 minutes was ambiguous enough. And Kyousuke in the 2nd half is too genki for all that have happened .
Maybe Kyousuke secretly fully healed up at his home before returning to school. Maybe he wanted to make a dramatic, flashy, fully healthy return. I could see a guy with his personality being like that.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2013-12-28 at 22:05.
Reason: Adding in reply to BloodyKitty
Maybe Kyousuke secretly fully healed up at his home before returning to school. Maybe he wanted to make a dramatic, flashy, fully healthy return. I could see a guy with his personality being like that.
Maybe very well so. Though I want to see some "changes beneath the surface" in Kyousuke's case. I mean, we could see the changes in Masato and Kengo in this ending. Masato expresses more of his maturity, while Kengo expresses his real nature of a goofy, silly guy who loves playing with his friend. So there is no reason if we can't see more of Kyousuke's different side after the accident, since he had the very important role in the grand scheme. Seeing him appearing exactly the same as before just feel a little bit unsatisfying. Maybe he really wants to continue to show his usual strong and happy persona to make an impression and not making his friends worried, or this is due to time constraint that we can't see more of the impact the accident and the dream world left behind on everyone, but I still want to see more of it, even just subtly.
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The fact that you cry
The fact that you lose your temper
The fact that you get angry
The fact that you hate
The fact that you scream
The fact that you suffer
The fact that you mourn
The fact that you despair
Or the fact that you come to a resolution
Cannot prove that you are right. ~Everybody Has the Right to Make Mistakes~ - Quoted from Kino's Journey Vol. 12
I really, really doubt we're supposed to take either anime ending that way.
I agree Doesn't stop others from making those crazy speculation theories.
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Originally Posted by BloodyKitty
Maybe very well so. Though I want to see some "changes beneath the surface" in Kyousuke's case. I mean, we could see the changes in Masato and Kengo in this ending. Masato expresses more of his maturity, while Kengo expresses his real nature of a goofy, silly guy who loves playing with his friend. So there is no reason if we can't see more of Kyousuke's different side after the accident, since he had the very important role in the grand scheme. Seeing him appearing exactly the same as before just feel a little bit unsatisfying. Maybe he really wants to continue to show his usual strong and happy persona to make an impression and not making his friends worried, or this is due to time constraint that we can't see more of the impact the accident and the dream world left behind on everyone, but I still want to see more of it, even just subtly.
This is more reason for why I want a spin off game with him as the lead He is also in the top 10 favorite key characters. So why not!
From what I got was that it took almost a year for him to come back. When Riki said it is autumn and then he said summer later on. So I know it must have been a long time. The back-flip was not needed though.
The repeated semester was May to June. They recovered over the summer, and it was now autumn.
This is more reason for why I want a spin off game with him as the lead He is also in the top 10 favorite key characters. So why not!
Yeah, I still remember him being the only male who made it in that poll
Though if there is another poll like that for all Key works, my hope would lie in Tennouji Kotarou to be another male to enter the top 10.
__________________
The fact that you cry
The fact that you lose your temper
The fact that you get angry
The fact that you hate
The fact that you scream
The fact that you suffer
The fact that you mourn
The fact that you despair
Or the fact that you come to a resolution
Cannot prove that you are right. ~Everybody Has the Right to Make Mistakes~ - Quoted from Kino's Journey Vol. 12
Maybe very well so. Though I want to see some "changes beneath the surface" in Kyousuke's case. I mean, we could see the changes in Masato and Kengo in this ending. Masato expresses more of his maturity, while Kengo expresses his real nature of a goofy, silly guy who loves playing with his friend. So there is no reason if we can't see more of Kyousuke's different side after the accident, since he had the very important role in the grand scheme. Seeing him appearing exactly the same as before just feel a little bit unsatisfying. Maybe he really wants to continue to show his usual strong and happy persona to make an impression and not making his friends worried, or this is due to time constraint that we can't see more of the impact the accident and the dream world left behind on everyone, but I still want to see more of it, even just subtly.
If I was Kyousuke, I would feel... absolutely on top of the world. My wildest hope and dream has been achieved - A dream so audacious I dared not even imagine it could happen.
He wants to continue to show his usual strong and happy persona? I think he is strong and happy. He has every reason to be!
This is probably the most "protagonist triumphant!" ending I've seen since Christopher Reeve Superman, having soundly defeated General Zod, smiled widely while flying out to the sparkling Earth's horizon against the backdrop of the sun.
Kyousuke's happiness and flamboyance in this ending is, I think, 100% sincere and authentic. I know it would be for me.
If I was Kyousuke, I would feel... absolutely on top of the world. My wildest hope and dream has been achieved - A dream so audacious I dared not even imagine it could happen.
He wants to continue to show his usual strong and happy persona? I think he is strong and happy. He has every reason to be!
This is probably the most "protagonist triumphant!" ending I've seen since Christopher Reeve Superman, having soundly defeated General Zod, smiled widely while flying out to the sparkling Earth's horizon against the backdrop of the sun.
Kyousuke's happiness and flamboyance in this ending is, I think, 100% sincere and authentic. I know it would be for me.
I get it that Kyousuke has all the reasons to be extremely happy, but the way he expresses his genkiness in this episode just feel like how he was always like before? I can't say exactly what I want him to express more than his usual happiness, though, so I'm okay with this for now.
__________________
The fact that you cry
The fact that you lose your temper
The fact that you get angry
The fact that you hate
The fact that you scream
The fact that you suffer
The fact that you mourn
The fact that you despair
Or the fact that you come to a resolution
Cannot prove that you are right. ~Everybody Has the Right to Make Mistakes~ - Quoted from Kino's Journey Vol. 12
I get it that Kyousuke has all the reasons to be extremely happy, but the way he expresses his genkiness in this episode just feel like how he was like before? I can't say exactly what I want him to express more than his usual happiness, though, so I'm okay with this for now.
I suppose a big "RahRah!" speech addressing everything that has happened, and thanking everyone for their highly successful efforts, would have been nice. It is slightly odd that he's choosing to ignore the topic. Because it's a pretty big topic. And unlike most 800 lb elephants in the room, this one would actually be somewhat pleasant to talk about. For most people, I think.
But maybe Kyousuke is a guy that doesn't like to show himself crying. And he feels that if he addresses everything directly, he'll cry tears of joy. That interpretation of his character would be in-keeping with how he almost held out long enough to avoid crying tears of sadness a couple episodes ago.
You know what would've been a ballsy ending for Little Busters?
Spoiler:
If Kyosuke crashed the van on the way to the beach, and they all ended up dying anyway. Maximum trollin'.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who thought of this
Spoiler for more of the same:
I was thinking the same thing. I would think after the coma he wakes up with wanting to repeat everything. Forever together like they wanted. Here is staying closer with VN ending! booyaa
the ending loses much impact without the ending where only Riki and Rin survive, as it seems as if the accident was not that much of a big deal.
On the other side, with only that ending, all the "get stronger" and "surpass me" would be quite irrelevant, as the VN makes it clear that Riki gained the strength that Kyosuke wanted to live on despite losing everyone, but then he showed he could go further and saving everyone.
Basically, my rant is that both endings complement each other. It doesn't seem that he needed that much strength if there's only the ending the anime showed.
Despite that complaint, I enjoyed the anime and the ending so I can forgive that.
Spoiler for More VN reader rants:
What I can't forgive is the lack of the hospital scene and (especially) the lack of the kiss scene :(
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Originally Posted by Triple_R
Maybe Kyousuke secretly fully healed up at his home before returning to school. Maybe he wanted to make a dramatic, flashy, fully healthy return. I could see a guy with his personality being like that. ;)
Something like that.
Spoiler for Really minor VN Spoilers (not that it matters that much now):
In the novel, Kurugaya mentions how Kyosuke actually had recovered earlier and was taking his time to get his driver license.
You know what would've been a ballsy ending for Little Busters?
Spoiler:
If Kyosuke crashed the van on the way to the beach, and they all ended up dying anyway. Maximum trollin'.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who thought of this
I'm thinking the same
well... I have to said this episode is above my expectation
I almost lose hope when I hear this is last episode since I feel previous episode isn't holding enough emotion
I feel little sad about that "hospital scene" that VN players blabbered about.. little curious (thanks Reckoner for telling me about the content)
I think Key's magic is working when Riki and Rin holds the resolve
In previous world, I think everyone are actually already died (I assume this because if they're still survived, Kyousuke and others won't do something like making new world for Riki and Rin)
but in the new world, everyone are survived but in critical condition... that's why they manage to save them including Kyousuke. In new world, the bonds between Riki and the girls are still remained so it's not small alteration from original world but completely new world that re-created by Riki and Rin.
If Kyousuke died, I think LB will have a better ending... this cheerful ending feels so wroonngg...
But even I won't have courage to let Kyousuke died... so this ending is the best way for Little Busters (all-cheerful ending like Clannad is also exist)
I enjoy this series but feels unfortunate due to amount of spoilers I get while watching this... I hope the EX episode would be better
and of course.... Rewrite needs anime... I promise I won't check spoilers this time
You know what would've been a ballsy ending for Little Busters?
Spoiler:
If Kyosuke crashed the van on the way to the beach, and they all ended up dying anyway. Maximum trollin'.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who thought of this
I have to admit the idea crossed my mind.
My more cynical side also thought "Wow, you guys are gutsy. Your last field-trip almost ended up in complete disaster, and yet you're all pumped to go on another road-trip?"
And if I was Riki, I might be scared of driving in vehicles by this point, lol.
(That could be the basis of a good sequel - Before Riki had to overcome Narcolepsy, now he has overcome a fear of driving in vehicles because of REALLLLY bad experiences with them )
Actually, between LB! and Angel Beats!, I wonder if Maeda himself was ever in a major vehicular accident. It's interesting that's been a key plot point in both of those shows (and for two plot points in LB!)
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I'm glad the Little Busters will continue being able to experience things together and deepen their friendships/life stories, and happy endings that I don't expect to come are always pretty powerful ones to me - I was completely sure that the school bus tragedy was unavoidable and that Riki and Rin were destined to just have to deal with it the best they can.
Agreed. That was definitely the vibe Refrain had been giving until the 2nd last episode (which is why, honestly, parts of Haak's review post on this thread, and some posts on the Episode 12 thread saying that this turn of events was "suspected", really makes me raise my eyebrows).
Spoiler for Implied Mai HiME spoiler, fairly big:
If this had been executed poorly, this would have been the Mai HiME ending all over again.
But they executed it really well. I find that the more I think about it, the more I can't help but admire what they pulled off here. They turned what seemed to be a certain and heavily foreshadowed BITTERsweet tragic ending into a total happy ending, and they managed to do it in a way that felt strangely natural and not like a total asspull.
@Triple R
It was suspected because Key is well known for these kind of endings.
Honestly, I felt this turn-around was much bigger than anything in previous Key anime.
Spoiler for Clannad, Kanon, Air and Angel Beats! comparisons, major spoilers for all:
While it's fair to say that Clannad: After Story's ending has a Deus ex Machina feel to it, I never felt like the whole point of After Story was showing a guy dealing with the death of his wife (in order to be a good father to his daughter).
Nagisa deciding to have a child didn't really get pushed front and center until the 2nd half of After Story.
Before it happened, Nagisa dying from giving birth was presented as a possibility, but not a certainty. And there was only a few episodes devoted to the aftermath of that death.
With Refrain, almost the entire season has been heavily foreshadowing and leading up to a tragic end, with the whole point seeming to be that it would be about Riki and Rin becoming emotionally strong enough to cope with great personal loss. I mean, if this show had a tragic ending, there's no question in my mind that people would say that this is what Refrain is all about.
And Kyousuke presented this tragedy as fait accompli, completely unavoidable. Tomoya and Nagisa were worried that she could die in child-birth, but they were holding out hope that she'd survive it.
As for Kanon, it's the least unified of the Key works, imo. I enjoyed Kanon, but it felt like a collection of romantic short stories tied together by a colorful playboy that can't resist acting nice to cute girls. If you were to ask me what the theme of Kanon is, I'm not sure what I would say to that.
As for Air and Angel Beats!...
I haven't watched Air to its conclusion, but I've heard it sticks to its guns and doesn't have a happy ending. Angel Beats! also doesn't exactly have a happy ending. I mean, it's not like anybody is given back their original life or anything like that - What I took from AB's ending is that the characters were reincarnated.
So out of 4 previous Key anime, you have 2/4 happy turn-around endings. That isn't much of a pattern to go by, especially when neither of the 2 turn-arounds is on par with what this show just did.
Honestly, I felt this turn-around was much bigger than anything in previous Key anime.
Spoiler for Clannad, Kanon, Air and Angel Beats! comparisons, major spoilers for all:
While it's fair to say that Clannad: After Story's ending has a Deus ex Machina feel to it, I never felt like the whole point of After Story was showing a guy dealing with the death of his wife (in order to be a good father to his daughter).
Nagisa deciding to have a child didn't really get pushed front and center until the 2nd half of After Story.
Before it happened, Nagisa dying from giving birth was presented as a possibility, but not a certainty. And there was only a few episodes devoted to the aftermath of that death.
With Refrain, almost the entire season has been heavily foreshadowing and leading up to a tragic end, with the whole point seeming to be that it would be about Riki and Rin becoming emotionally strong enough to cope with great personal loss. I mean, if this show had a tragic ending, there's no question in my mind that people would say that this is what Refrain is all about.
And Kyousuke presented this tragedy as fait accompli, completely unavoidable. Tomoya and Nagisa were worried that she could die in child-birth, but they were holding out hope that she'd survive it.
As for Kanon, it's the least unified of the Key works, imo. I enjoyed Kanon, but it felt like a collection of romantic short stories tied together by a colorful playboy that can't resist acting nice to cute girls. If you were to ask me what the theme of Kanon is, I'm not sure what I would say to that.
As for Air and Angel Beats!...
I haven't watched Air to its conclusion, but I've heard it sticks to its guns and doesn't have a happy ending. Angel Beats! also doesn't exactly have a happy ending. I mean, it's not like anybody is given back their original life or anything like that - What I took from AB's ending is that the characters were reincarnated.
So out of 4 previous Key anime, you have 2/4 happy turn-around endings. That isn't much of a pattern to go by, especially when neither of the 2 turn-arounds is on par with what this show just did.
Yes, going by the anime medium, Key doesn't have a clear pattern when they would go with the turn-around happy ending. It's just that Clannad and Kanon were more well-known than the rest, with that kind of ending being one of the debatable factors.
As for the visual novel medium...
Spoiler for spoilers for the nature of not-yet-animated Key works' endings:
Planetarian and Rewrite don't have turn-around happy true ends. Along with Air's ending, they're pretty straightforward and stick to their guns. So the ratio is 3/7 happy turn-around endings for all official Key titles.
I tend to appreciate it more when Key does ballsier endings, so that the lessons they want to carry on would be more meaningful.
__________________
The fact that you cry
The fact that you lose your temper
The fact that you get angry
The fact that you hate
The fact that you scream
The fact that you suffer
The fact that you mourn
The fact that you despair
Or the fact that you come to a resolution
Cannot prove that you are right. ~Everybody Has the Right to Make Mistakes~ - Quoted from Kino's Journey Vol. 12
Excluding the EX routes, they adapted the whole thing in 3 cours. They probably could have done better if they had adapted it in 4 cours instead.
The main story is over but there are still the EX episodes. Kud Wafter might also get animated but it won't connect to the main series given how Refrain ended.
Also even if everyone remembers all their experience in the created world, some of them still hadn't had their issues resolved in the real world. Komari, Kurugaya and Mio's issues were with themselves so theirs were pretty much resolved already when they got back in the real world. But what about Haruka and Kud's issues which involved their families, had they been resolved in the real world?
Honestly, I felt this turn-around was much bigger than anything in previous Key anime.
Spoiler for Clannad, Kanon, Air and Angel Beats! comparisons, major spoilers for all:
While it's fair to say that Clannad: After Story's ending has a Deus ex Machina feel to it, I never felt like the whole point of After Story was showing a guy dealing with the death of his wife (in order to be a good father to his daughter).
Nagisa deciding to have a child didn't really get pushed front and center until the 2nd half of After Story.
Before it happened, Nagisa dying from giving birth was presented as a possibility, but not a certainty. And there was only a few episodes devoted to the aftermath of that death.
With Refrain, almost the entire season has been heavily foreshadowing and leading up to a tragic end, with the whole point seeming to be that it would be about Riki and Rin becoming emotionally strong enough to cope with great personal loss. I mean, if this show had a tragic ending, there's no question in my mind that people would say that this is what Refrain is all about.
And Kyousuke presented this tragedy as fait accompli, completely unavoidable. Tomoya and Nagisa were worried that she could die in child-birth, but they were holding out hope that she'd survive it.
As for Kanon, it's the least unified of the Key works, imo. I enjoyed Kanon, but it felt like a collection of romantic short stories tied together by a colorful playboy that can't resist acting nice to cute girls. If you were to ask me what the theme of Kanon is, I'm not sure what I would say to that.
As for Air and Angel Beats!...
I haven't watched Air to its conclusion, but I've heard it sticks to its guns and doesn't have a happy ending. Angel Beats! also doesn't exactly have a happy ending. I mean, it's not like anybody is given back their original life or anything like that - What I took from AB's ending is that the characters were reincarnated.
So out of 4 previous Key anime, you have 2/4 happy turn-around endings. That isn't much of a pattern to go by, especially when neither of the 2 turn-arounds is on par with what this show just did.
Just a reply
Spoiler for Kanon, AIR and Clannad spoilers:
For Clannad the ending is not really Deus ex Machina for the game. I would put the blame on Kyo-ani for not showing the orb collecting. It is a large part of the game that should have translated better. Also, the looping should have been portrayed better. I found JC Staff did a much better job of looping and made the story work in LB. where as in Clannad, the ending comes out of nowhere and makes it feel like Deus ex Machina.
You should watch AIR it is really good, despite it being short it is a beautiful story that should not be overlooked. So I encourage you to watch it to the end
Kanon's theme is miracles. AIR is mothers, Clannad is family and Little Busters is friendship.
Author
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Doesn't stop others from making those crazy speculation theories.
He is also in the top 10 favorite key characters. So why not!
Maximum trollin'.
