Medaka Box [Manga]

[Rejuvenation]

Spoiler:

The author isn't trolling at all. Its been pointed out a few times now that Medaka wanted a VP who isn't a yes-man. It isn't her fault Zenkichi failed to meet the qualifications for that. Plus Zenkichi's character from beginning to present has always been about stability and being normal. His character is static and depending on how you argue it he might already have been the most "complete" character from the start which is why he never changes in regards to practically everything.

Originally Posted by Clarste

They also went up a bit whenever any non-abnormal did anything in the flask arc. I think people just got tired of the abnormals, to the point where even Akune was seen as a breath of fresh air.

Akune was one of the more interesting characters during the flask plan. Not to say he isn't right now but the focus hasn't been on him in this arc. I'd like if he plays a larger role in this next one but I put the odds of that at 50/50 at best.

[Sixth]

White Hair Ajimu = Got bookmark'ed by Misogi's ability?

[zeando]

Spoiler for spoiler:

Originally Posted by noobita

White Hair Ajimu = Got bookmark'ed by Misogi's ability?

maybe she left all her bilion powers in the limbo to don't destabilize the world with her only presence, so now maybe she has only 1 or zero powers, and can only assign/remove/trade powers to others but don't use them herself :3
i would like a thing like this :P

edit. ah dam, forgot to put that in spoilers >_<

[Soji]

^This is certainly a possibility or maybe she can change her own abilities / powers when she wants.
The only thing I know is ,I want she to be able to bring Zen to her side after all she told him to come back to her after the election a end .
Now that I think abou it , we wondered if Zen had to die again to meet her again it's seem we have the answer now .. . I find it ironic that Kumagawa has always to dying to meet her and Zen for meet her again for the second time Ajimu herself reappeared in the school.

[Doc Astaroth]

Originally Posted by silver001

Spoiler for chapter 92 speculation:

Being a zen fan is so disheartening sometimes. medaka no Kurokami says "i love" to your arch nemesis (ya i know she was just being her usual self). And then promotes that same nemesis to a position that allows him to mess with Zen. lets not forget that nemesis blinded him as well. and not only that but during the fight between her and this Nemesis, she practically told him to STFU about losing.

if my hope of him growing a backbone comes true, he will probably be joining the girl (supposedly zen's gf of some kind, going by what kumagawa said) that kiss his nemesis. So basically kumagawa got everything zen had.

is it too much to hope the author is trolling? or, should i accept the fact that zen is an eternal loser, a member of the HFIL club that has no hope of gettin some.
/rant

Actually...

Spoiler:

Zenkichi himself approved this decision!

[Soji]

Originally Posted by Doc Astaroth

Actually...

Spoiler:

Zenkichi himself approved this decision!

wait ...what ?

Spoiler for spoiler:

I thoug he hated him ... at least that the Those eye dont helped him to better understand Kumagawa. But seriously this is something that I would never have expected, but Zen approved this decision because was Medaka's decision (if is this I remain a tot disappointed) or his free choice?

[Doc Astaroth]

Originally Posted by Soji

wait ...what ?

Spoiler for spoiler:

I thoug he hated him ... at least that the Those eye dont helped him to better understand Kumagawa. But seriously this is something that I would never have expected, but because it was a decision of medaka (if is this I remain a tot disappointed) or his free choice?

Well, in the spoiler it was written:

Spoiler:

[/quote]"球磨川は文句を言いながらその提案を了承し、善吉も球磨川が副会長になることを認める。"[/quote]

, which I translate as:

"While Kumagawa complains, Zenkichi also accepts the suggestion and agrees for Kumagawa becoming the vice-president."

[Last Carpet]

Originally Posted by Doc Astaroth

Actually...

Spoiler:

Zenkichi himself approved this decision!

This is...there are so many ways to.....I can't even....

I just don't get it. Zenkichi is the one character with the most potential for development. But it never happens. I'm starting to wonder if Nisio even realizes how much the story, since most of it is centered around Medaka, could be improved of he just focused on Zenkichi.

I know the manga isn't over yet. But with this it looks like Zenkichi will never get a chance to evolve and grow. Unlike everybody else in the story.

There's just so much wasted potential here.

[Soji]

Doc Astaroth thanks for the answer.

Originally Posted by Last Carpet

This is...there are so many ways to.....I can't even....

I just don't get it. Zenkichi is the one character with the most potential for development. But it never happens. I'm starting to wonder if Nisio even realizes how much the story, since most of it is centered around Medaka, could be improved of he just focused on Zenkichi.

I know the manga isn't over yet. But with this it looks like Zenkichi will never get a chance to evolve and grow. Unlike everybody else in the story.

There's just so much wasted potential here.

I agree with you. Well my hope lies in Ajimu after all we know that she has ties with both Medaka and Kumagawa(and the relationship that they have with each other) but what is the relationship that she has with Zen?. In this arc that just end. we had some indication that they knew each other and that's what intrigues me, I hope that now that she is back (if the spoiler is true) we get the answer on their relationship.
One other thing that I hope is when Zen remember about Ajimu he get some character development.

[silver001]

Originally Posted by Doc Astaroth

Well, in the spoiler it was written:

Spoiler:

"球磨川は文句を言いながらその提案を了承し、善吉も球磨川が副会長になることを認める。"[/quote]

, which I translate as:

"While Kumagawa complains, Zenkichi also accepts the suggestion and agrees for Kumagawa becoming the vice-president."

[/QUOTE]

well i m not totally shocked. I think Zen is so broken that he just a mouth piece how(harsh yes).

Spoiler for spoiler:

now i have to wonder, if i remember correctly zen said he was trying to protect medaka from the negativity of kuwagama. Now that kuwagama isnt trying actively to negatively affect medaka doesnt that mean zen reason to protect her is gone?

well here is to hoping ajimu is as important to zen as the story tried to imply.and here is to hoping hte next arc will develop zen or something.

[Doc Astaroth]

Originally Posted by Last Carpet

This is...there are so many ways to.....I can't even....

I just don't get it. Zenkichi is the one character with the most potential for development. But it never happens. I'm starting to wonder if Nisio even realizes how much the story, since most of it is centered around Medaka, could be improved of he just focused on Zenkichi.

I know the manga isn't over yet. But with this it looks like Zenkichi will never get a chance to evolve and grow. Unlike everybody else in the story.

There's just so much wasted potential here.

I guess, the problem is, that there is no need for Zenkichi to evolve. Heroes evolve by facing a personal problem, which they can not solve as they are. But Zenkichi has no personal problems! He doesn´t have something like an archenemy or suffer a real failure. We can identify us with him, because he is average, but while we see us as the main characters of our own stories, Zenkichi just sees himself as a side character, who doesn´t need a personal goal. In that case he is even more selfless than Medaka!

Spoiler:

According to my theory, that is because his ideals and goals are already manifested through Medaka, making it unnecessary for him to pursuit them! Everything he has to do is to follow Medaka and all his dreams will become true!

Originally Posted by Soji

Doc Astaroth thanks for the answer.

I agree with you. Well my hope lies in Ajimu after all we know that she has ties with both Medaka and Kumagawa but what is the relationship that she has with Zen?. In this arc that just end. we had some indication that they knew each other and that's what intrigues me, I hope that now that she is back (if the spoiler is true) we get the answer on their relationship.
One other thing that I hope is when Zen remember about Ajimu he get some character development.

Only if the matter, I wrote above, is addressed by Ajimu.

[KLGChaos]

Spoiler:

Zen accepting the decision like it's a great thing cements my opinion that he's just a mindless puppet who has no free thought of his own and he'll go along with whatever Medaka says no matter what. He'd probably actually be better off dead than stuck as a thrall all this life who has no real purpose for living, other than being another person's slave. Unless there's something where he once decided to break away from Medaka (through Ajimu), but Medaka did something to erase his memories and keep him as her servant.

Whether Zen is selfless or not, living his dreams through Medaka or not, Nishio has to realize that does NOT make for an interesting character... At all. A story where characters don't grow or develop is like going to a movie where the same scene plays over and over and over. Or a romance manga where the couple doesn't move (like Pastel). It's boring.

I kept hoping against hope that Zen would be developed some day and though if anything, Kumagawa as VP would be the instigator of that. Now I see I was just deluding myself and he'll forever remain a stagnant, boring character. Frankly, Zen's complete lack of development will be what drives me away from the series in the end as my interest is tenuous at best anyway. I just don't get how a guy who develops characters so well in other works (like Bakemongatari) seems to fail so hard here. Maybe it's the medium.

[Soji]

read you guys post made me think of a theory.
Obviously it can be completely wrong but I write just to see what you guys think.

Spoiler for for theory:

hypothetically we say that during that period Zen and Ajimu were in a relationship or at least their were more related that medaka and Zen are now.
Now we know that Ajimu and medaka were best friends during that period which means it does not matter if Zen known Ajimu through Medaka or if Medaka known Ajimu through Zen this info does not change the result.
We also know that Ajimu was the Vp of Kumagawa during that period so I would not be surprised if Zen knew Kumagawa through Ajimu and I would not be suprise if both Zen and Kumagawa were friends during that time.
Well after all, we know that Zen has not problems to become friend with minus we have Shirunai as living proof on that.
Now let's say that during that fateful day when Kumagawa has ripped Ajimu's face off and Zen has saw all without being able to do anything.
He literally saw someone he thought seriously friend injure the girl he loved (maybe) or at least that was really important for him being hurt from someone he trust,I say this is something that can make someone minus if this some one have the potential.
Now with regard to the memories of Zen is that it has forgotten about Ajimu I'd say the culprit may be Zen mother herself.
I mean we know that Zen's mother worked in the field of psychology in respect of abnormal (minus and plus) I do not be surprised if to protect his beloved son she has rewritten his memories and sealed the memories of that event which would explain also why Zen it is the way t he is in addition to Doc Astaroth theory .
Probably she did this so that Zen her son not became a minus.
If this theory becomes reality it would be interesting to see how Zen will deal with Ajimu that is finally returned, and perhaps parasite seeing will be the key to solving the whole situation.
Ok now I hope that this theory become truth as it would give a great character development to Zen.

[zeando]

Originally Posted by Last Carpet

There's just so much wasted potential here.

it's not wasted potential but latent potential

I guess, the problem is, that there is no need for Zenkichi to evolve. Heroes evolve by facing a personal problem, which they can not solve as they are. But Zenkichi has no personal problems! He doesn´t have something like an archenemy or suffer a real failure. We can identify us with him, because he is average, but while we see us as the main characters of our own stories, Zenkichi just sees himself as a side character, who doesn´t need a personal goal. In that case he is even more selfless than Medaka!

looking at this in this way it looks like zenkichi tamed medaka to his will, he was able(maybe not intentionally) to have a supergirl follow his way of thinking and ideals
with no zenkichi medaka would have lived for her power, like the brainwashed medaka said, while with zenkichi she is using her power to live her way (zen's suggested way)
so also zen saying he wants to be able to protect medaka may mean he want(also) to protect the ideals he was able to put in her
this way of viewing it seems a bit cynical to me, this way zen is using medaka (maybe he use her AND enjoy staying by her side too)

[Doc Astaroth]

Originally Posted by KLGChaos

Spoiler:

Zen accepting the decision like it's a great thing cements my opinion that he's just a mindless puppet who has no free thought of his own and he'll go along with whatever Medaka says no matter what. He'd probably actually be better off dead than stuck as a thrall all this life who has no real purpose for living, other than being another person's slave. Unless there's something where he once decided to break away from Medaka (through Ajimu), but Medaka did something to erase his memories and keep him as her servant.

Whether Zen is selfless or not, living his dreams through Medaka or not, Nishio has to realize that does NOT make for an interesting character... At all. A story where characters don't grow or develop is like going to a movie where the same scene plays over and over and over. Or a romance manga where the couple doesn't move (like Pastel). It's boring.

I kept hoping against hope that Zen would be developed some day and though if anything, Kumagawa as VP would be the instigator of that. Now I see I was just deluding myself and he'll forever remain a stagnant, boring character. Frankly, Zen's complete lack of development will be what drives me away from the series in the end as my interest is tenuous at best anyway. I just don't get how a guy who develops characters so well in other works (like Bakemongatari) seems to fail so hard here. Maybe it's the medium.

I would still say, that Zenkichi could become quite important on his own... After all, now he has the same contractor like Kumagawa:

Spoiler:

Do you think, Ajimu gave Zenkichi "Parasite Seeing" for free? I bet, she gave him this eyes to see the world through them and maybe she even plans to use them as a channel! Some people even downright compare her with an Eldritch Abomination. Not something our hero should have contact with, right?

Zenkichi possessed by Ajimu would be certainly interesting.

[zeando]

^you mean changing a person's way to see things(way to think) based on the side-effects of possessing a power? (like manipulate)
or direct possession like mindcontrolling?

[Doc Astaroth]

Originally Posted by zeando

^you mean changing a person's way to see things(way to think) based on the side-effects of possessing a power? (like manipulate)
or direct possession like mindcontrolling?

Oh, I like the first one!

[Clarste]

Keep in mind that Zen is actually blind now. He can only see through the borrowed Parasite Vision. He has no vision of his own anymore, because Kumagawa erased it from the world. All he can see is what others see, and ultimately that's controlled by Ajimu.

[KLGChaos]

The thing is, we've been hoping Zen would he come important and develop for nearly 100 chapters now and no such luck. He's most likely doomed to be Medaka's slave forever and never have a life of his own. Poor guy needs to be put out of his misery, because that's no way to live.

[zeando]

Originally Posted by KLGChaos

The thing is, we've been hoping Zen would he come important and develop for nearly 100 chapters now and no such luck. He's most likely doomed to be Medaka's slave forever and never have a life of his own. Poor guy needs to be put out of his misery, because that's no way to live.

maybe you're seeing zenkichi in this way because you are expecting something from him, but there may be other way to look at it, the "zen use medaka"(medaka is zen's slave) looks a bit twisted but it's interesting
so more than a development(which looks he's pretty stable as character) we have to see more about him, to understand more about why he's so stable