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View Poll Results: Aquarion EVOL - Episode 23 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 12 | 18.46% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 13 | 20.00% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 8 | 12.31% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 3 | 4.62% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 3 | 4.62% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 1 | 1.54% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 4 | 6.15% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 2 | 3.08% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 1 | 1.54% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 18 | 27.69% | |
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-06-08, 12:53 | Link #461 | |
#1 Ranka Fan!!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA
Age: 32
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In regards to ideas, it is quite possible he got those while doing MF. I doubt he had inspiration to continue Aquarion before MF. He seemed just fine working on MF. I can still remember when I heard that he didn't want to make sequels to Macross... yet, look at all the sequels there has been from him. Aquarion might come to turn out the same way with cliches like that. (We all know Macross' is overused: future/current pilot meets singer/future singer, an idol rises to fame, another idol falls, mature girl wins love triangle, happy/bittersweet ending, and the end.) Maybe he shouldn't multi-task series either...
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2012-06-08, 13:11 | Link #462 | |
Riding the Ange Express
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sunriseland
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And I agree. He is falling prey to the cliches he sets up. |
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2012-06-08, 13:42 | Link #463 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York, NY
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This is also another reason why I feel that romance wasn't handled well in this series at all. Yeah we see Zessica worry about Amata from afar, but that's about it. She doesn't actively chase after him, and for someone who thinks about him so much she really isn't considerate of his feelings. Not only that but even after she confessed to him, and he tried to turn her down she didn't want to hear it, and instead ran away, and then pulled a desperate move to get his attention, which didn't work and only made things worse for her. Worse yet is that it seems as though she believes that if Amata doesn't end up with Mikono then he'll notice and love her, and she will get Amata. Quote:
Animal Detective Kiruminzoo, and the two Frontier movies. In Basquash Kawamori already did something different in that the main character didn't end up with anyone, since he wasn't interested in any of the female characters. Macross 7 and Macross Plus also didn't follow that story format at all. Actually a good portion of Kawamori's works don't follow that story format. So what you're saying just isn't true. Also having seen Aquarion, the two OVA's, the movie, read a bit of the manga, and the listened to the drama CDs I wonder whether it was really in his idea to include that all along, as usually there is more evidence of discarded ideas, but this one doesn't really all that much evidence. The dog only shows up once, and that's in regards to Rena, and then is never seen or mentioned again. If the dog was always a part of his plans all along then he had plenty of chances to include it into the storyline, like with the Reika= Scorpius bit. But the fact that he didn't means that he either A) abandoned the idea or B) he didn't think up at the time. Also the fact that even Japanese fans were surprised by this means that there was no indication for it at all. Last edited by wisteria233; 2012-06-08 at 14:10. |
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2012-06-08, 14:19 | Link #464 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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And I think for many fans of the earlier series Evol jumped the shark with this episode (as someone mentioned earlier in this thread). It doesn't matter how many "clues" there are in Genesis if no-one has even noticed them until Evol went "HE WAS THE DOG, GUYS!" (and even this way it totally clashes with the end). And I really wonder how much those viewers who haven't seen the first series and haven't spoiled themselves to death (which is to say, most of Evol's viewers) understood from all this. Introducing a twist and then basically saying "if you want to know why this is important watch the prequel" - this is crappy writing, period. Especially since the twist effectively retcons the prequel. Exactly. |
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2012-06-08, 14:29 | Link #465 | |
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sunriseland
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2012-06-08, 14:40 | Link #466 | ||||
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Surely that should count for something. As for what kuro wrote - Zessica flirted with Amata for a long time, which most people would take as possible romantic hints. So why should Amata or any of the other characters in this show be surprised at Zessica confessing feelings to Amata? The timing of her confession was very surprising, of course, but the simple fact that Zessica had feelings for Amata shouldn't have surprised any character that was paying even the least amount of attention to her interactions with Amata before the confession. Honestly, I think this anime has handled Zessica's initial crush well, and her confession as well. What came after that is much more questionable, but the lead-up to the confession was fine, I felt. Quote:
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You and kuro are awfully hard on Zessica, in my opinion. This wouldn't bother me so much except that both of you are extremely forgiving towards Amata. It does seem like a bit of a double-standard to me...
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2012-06-08, 15:49 | Link #468 | ||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York, NY
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Honestly, I think this anime has handled Zessica's initial crush well, and her confession as well. What came after that is much more questionable, but the lead-up to the confession was fine, I felt. Zessica didn't get serious about Amata until episode 8, and everyone knew she wasn't serious. Quote:
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The only thing that I have seen blamed on him is Zessica's behavior and getting in the way of Kagura ending up with Mikono, and lets be honest here, Zessica's current condition is her own fault. It's Zessica's own fault that she refuses to move on, especially after Amata already turned her down. And with Kagura its all one-sided as Mikono hasn't shown an interest in him, just pity. Its no double standard here. |
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2012-06-08, 16:10 | Link #469 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
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>miketyson
I think they haven't really thought this through. If the last three eps will really be as epic as advertised and all the bad writing will suddenly, magically make sense I'll reconsider my opinion, but as it is right now... >Triple_R Basically, what wisteria said. But just to add some of my thoughts: I don't know, telling him that he has no chance with the girl he loves and finishing it with "I'm glad you and Mikono are not meant to be because this means I have a chance with you," is not exactly being considerate of his feelings. ^^;; It's a good thing that Amata was too distracted to hear and/or process what she said because he would've had every right to be angry at that. And as for anger, Zessica wouldn't have had any reason to be angry with him - until he didn't know about her feelings he couldn't have been considerate about them. FWIW, I also think that the way her feelings were handled until her confession was decent - not good, but decent. After that it's pure tragedy, but since we can't exactly ignore that part I'm talking about the entire process from her falling in love until where she is now. Quote:
I don't think I'm being hard on her - and in any case, I'm not blaming her, as I said I'm way past blaming characters for things that are obviously the writers' fault. But writing problems aside, Zessica brought this on herself. I understand why people feel sorry for her - hell, the writing made sure that viewers would feel very sorry for her - and I'm not saying that feeling sorry for her is bad, but no-one is responsible for her current situation but Zessica herself (well, most recently Mykage as well). Quote:
Btw no, I'm not getting into that debate again, and I would rather not get into this one either. Last edited by kuromitsu; 2012-06-08 at 16:41. Reason: damn gendered pronouns! ^^;; |
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2012-06-08, 16:15 | Link #470 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
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kuromitsu: based on their track record, why would you be skeptical they can't execute on these last three episodes, ? As-is I'm enjoying it for what it is and glad I don't have any real attachment to the original to get in the way, , but beyond that don't have much to add to the discussion these days.
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2012-06-08, 16:32 | Link #471 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
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>miketyson
No no, I know my skepticism is absolutely unreasonable, but you know~? (As for the discussion, I think I'm just going around in circles about the same things... I blame slow days at work and myself being unable to resist the forum.) |
2012-06-08, 16:56 | Link #472 |
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sunriseland
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I don't see that happening either. I am hopeful though. Hopefully the final 3 episodes will offer a satisfying conclusion and not do anything stupid like the whole dog twist. Hoping for the best.
As you can tell, a lot of hope. Things can't possibly get worse... |
2012-06-08, 17:16 | Link #473 | ||||||||||||||||||
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On the other hand, you both keep saying that she should just get over him right away, as though that's as easy to do as it is to say. So which is it? Should she keep chasing after him, or should she just give up on him? The fact of the matter is that Zessica has done more for Amata than just worry about him. Quote:
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And it's perfectly normal and just being human for a person to be pleased when somebody they have romantic feelings seemingly becomes available. I can't believe that you and kuro are seriously faulting Zessica for that. You are holding her to the standards of a Saint! It's ridiculous. Quote:
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Honestly, if I was in Amata's shoes, I'd be flattered by Zessica's actions and I'd feel sorry for her. Quote:
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I think that you're only considering Amata's feelings, without showing even the slightest consideration to Zessica's. Is that a double-standard? Well, it looks like one to me. Quote:
Again, that looks like a double-standard to me...
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2012-06-08, 18:18 | Link #474 | |
Joseph Defense Squad
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mars
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First off, I wholly agree with Triple_R on this. Just adding a few thoughts:
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Amata is hardly a victim, forced into a corner by Zessica's malicious, misguided advances, designed to put him in awkward positions- as one would think reading some of the posts on here... While technically a nice guy when introduced, he's neither mature nor in command of common decency. He is selfish and obsessive with regards to Mikono: How else can one explain how even the apparent death of a comrade/friend doesn't stop him from having a juvenile brawl over some girl who isn't even his, abandoning any attempts to rescue/recover the comrade who was just saved his life. I do wonder how on earth do they plan on redeeming Amata and Mikono. I would have no qualms rating them right up there with the cast of School Days in how stunningly unlikeable they have become together. Especially recently it seems that each really brings out the worst in the other... I honestly wonder what the morale of this show is supposed to be...?! |
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2012-06-08, 20:04 | Link #476 | |||||||||||||||||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York, NY
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Zessica when she realized that she love him should have tried harder to get his attention, instead of just stepping off to the side feeling sorry for herself. However, after she truly made an effort to get him to notice her, confessed and he turned her down, she should have tried to move on instead of just falling into depression and feeling sorry for herself. Especially after it became increasingly obvious that her chances her zero. She just saved him one time, other times she was just being passive aggressive about his relationship with Mikono. Quote:
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Zessica started to feel self conscious around him, in episode 8 when she asked herself why she was embarassed about Amata seeing her with very little clothing on (ironic since she never covers up anyway). Before then she never shown any signs of feeling self conscious towards him. It is also after that episode she stopped flirting altogether. It wasn't because she noticed that Mikono was jealous since Mikono has shown blatant jealousy from the moment she started flirting around with Amata, to the point where Mikono considered wearing more revealing clothing to get his attention (which Zessica saw), and yet Zessica didn't stop flirting with him. Show me the proof that Zessica had a romantic interest in Amata before she stopped flirting with him. If Zessica really found it boring or wrong to make Mikono jealous like that then she would have stopped from episode 5 instead of after episode 8. Quote:
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And you're trying to say that she is completely without flaw or fault. Meanwhile you judge both Amata and Mikono by a much more rigid set of rules. Quote:
no one but herself, a desperate move doens't have to hurt anyone to be desperate. Besides she herself says earlier in the episode guys like Amata go for girls like Mikono before she tries to emulate Mikono's style. Quote:
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Also no Mikono hasn't any interest in Kagura romantically, outside of pity. Its pretty much the first thing she says about Kagura, that she has to apologize to him. Also in episode 5 Mikono's stun bracelet started to glow when her and Amata were having their moment, the only reason she was stunned by her interaction with Kagura was because Amata had already put her on edge. Followed by that is episode 8 when she was embarrassed that Amata was looking at her, her jealously whenever Zessica flirts with her, and whenever Amata is nice to other girls. Episode 12 during their date, her general fear of Kagura in that episode, her calling out for Amata in her sleep, being calm when she though that Kagura was Amata, and finally her conversation with Shu Shu. Compared with the fact that she hasn't been shown to be *doki doki* around Kagura. Yep Mikono really hasn't shown that she isn't turned on by or has shown interest in Amata, nope, nope . Quote:
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Its not as though he hasn't tried to tell her. Quote:
Or are you trying to say that Amata was obligated to return her feelings or try to return them just because she confessed to him? Someone isn't obligated to return you're feelings just because you tell them that you like them. Quote:
In all of these cases the guy is faultless, after all he didn't force the girl to flirt with him, he didn't force her to fall for him, hell he even turned her down, and didn't do anything to give her any false hope. So if the girl refuses to move on its her fault, not his, since she already knows how he feels. Quote:
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2012-06-08, 21:29 | Link #477 |
Incognito
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: At the end of the abyss
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there are pleny of anime/real life situations where someone is rejected by someone, but the person who gave the rejection later falls in love with the person they rejected.
Ex. Toradora(Taiga rejects Yuusaku(glasses guy) but later falls in love with him( the falling in love happened soon after the rejection). My two cents. BTW, Amata and Zessica both deserve to be blamed for their respective actions, and they have suffered(Amata less than Zessica cause Mykage invading your body= death flag). now one quick question: Does anyone besides me think Zessica/Mykage fusion is awesome as hell(My tears for the poor girl have already run dry) but that expression she makes at the end and in the preview is awesome. |
2012-06-08, 23:51 | Link #478 | ||||
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Join Date: Jul 2008
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>wisteria233
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Let's not forget that the vision in the mirror was Mykage's work who wanted to take advantage of her by raising her hope up and then crush it later to hijack her body. Even then, her first thought was to worry that Amata was going to be left behind in ep 14. And after telling Amata about the false vision she later told him in ep 16 that fate didn't matter and encouraged him to fight it which means to not give up Mikono to some fated lover. That was when fate was her only chance of getting Amata. So no, Zessica didn't keep on telling Amata that Mikono and Kagura are fated lovers (I'm having trouble remembering Zessica talking to him about Apollon/Sylvie apart from episode 15) and she didn't push Amata to give up Mikono, that's patently wrong. And Zessica was interested in Amata right from the first episode although it was probably more about his fighting ability then. Spoiler for Proof:
She trusted him enough to ask him to accompany her home because of her fear of the dark in ep 7 (a plot point that I think may come into play again in the last episodes) so I'd argue that she started to like him subconsciously between ep 5 and 7. Remember in ep 21 when she fondly remembered about her first time meeting Amata and her first gattai with him, not when they fought together in ep 8? It's because she was interested in him from the beginning. Quote:
- She kissed him to save him from the Cherubim's attack in ep 21. And the reason they were there was because Amata thought Mikono was calling for him through his dream. - She went through the dimensional gate and helped Amata and Shrade fight the Cherubim in ep 22 after hearing Amata's near confession to Mikono. More than one time for me and all three times she did it out of her concern for him, not about him and Mikono in any way. Last edited by crayven; 2012-06-09 at 00:10. |
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2012-06-09, 02:00 | Link #479 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
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Hillarious. People trying to put all the blame on evil Zessica.
Zessica's love at least come of as selfless, the same thing cannot be said of Amata's obssession who lets a comrade agonize under boulders to engage in a dickcontest with his love rival. First : Zessica brought up the destiny thing in episode 15 to reassure Amata about the fact Kagura won't do anything bad to Mikono. After that she is perfectly honest and straightforwardly tell him it made her a little happy because it gave her a bit of hope. She was just honest because it was obvious it won't paint her in a good light from Amata's POV. Second : In episode 17, seeing the whole destiny thing was hurting Amata (he thought then he wasn't the destined one), she cheered him on it, going against her best interest. Third : the only one who is suffering from Zessica's love is Zessica. She hasn't tried to interfere, she has just been honest. People just seem mad because Zessica's unrequited love highlights Mikono not seeming to care much about Amata or doing anything for him. (Be it intentionnal or bad writting for the sake of suspens and dragging). Just to be clear, I don't ship ZessicaxAmata. I think the best thing that could have happened to her would have been idiot not interfering when she decided to have Izumo take her. Altea's brainwashing would have done wonder erasing her/his painful love. Besides poor Andy wouldn't be so sad. Last edited by Zuul; 2012-06-09 at 02:33. |
2012-06-09, 03:59 | Link #480 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Not touching the discussion (haven't even read it, fwiw), but this caught my eye:
Aaaaand here it is! To be honest I thought Mikono would be the one who gets assigned some mental issue by her haters, but I suppose people hate Amata more because of Zessica. Now, if we want to do it as well as the big guys (re: Bleach, etc.) we need some "unbiased, factual" essays about why Amata not being in love with Zessica means he's an autist and the spawn of Satan who should just kill himself to "solve the conflict." And people still seem to be pretending that this is some unbiased, logical discussion that totally has nothing to do with being bitter over Zessica and resenting Amata for not loving her... I bet that all the horrible, horrible things Amata has done that you're blaming him for would be forgiven in a heartbeat if the writers gave Amata to Zessica, and it would be the best twist liek evar and not convulted at all. |
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