Monogatari Series Second Season - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll (Hitagi End V)

[monir]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Monogatari Series Second Season, Episode 22.

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[ultimate_noob]

Kaiki....

You lie, you die.

The end scene was fucking scary.

Rouka's visuals still a mystery I see....

[omimon]

Originally Posted by ultimate_noob

Kaiki....

You lie, you die.

The end scene was fucking scary.

Rouka's visuals still a mystery I see....

Shit has hit the fan, prepare your anus.

[shinyaNakagawa]

Wow.
They actually saved the best part for the last 26.

[konart]

Need ED card now.

[Shadow5YA]

Why did Kaiki even go with something as clichéd as a traffic accident? Even Nadeko is smart enough to know that Araragi and Shinobu wouldn't die from something like that.

And then there's the whole irony of Kaiki expecting Nadeko to trust his words right after telling her "you can't trust words".

[DorkingtonPugsly]

And.... the finale to the finale of this airing will go out with a bang~
Enjoyed this episode they had the visuals and music just right this time. Felt good.
I do hope they announce hana or kizu or anything at the end. A pv would be greatly appreciated.

[psycho bolt]

It was easy for Nadeko to tell it was a lie. Now she probably knows that he has some connections to Senjouhara and Araragi. Asuming Kaiki isn't a idiot and has something up his sleeves, I'm expecting a twist next week.

[Altima of the Gates]

Kaiki, you are full of so much tsun I think you might just explode.

Shaft using the "spotlight" to great effect again metaphorically with the sun.

[Kanon]

Kaiki raised so many death flags in this episode it's not even funny. I seriously hope he won't die. This arc made him the best Monogatari. He's the real tsundere of the show.

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Why did Kaiki even go with something as clichéd as a traffic accident? Even Nadeko is smart enough to know that Araragi and Shinobu wouldn't die from something like that.

And then there's the whole irony of Kaiki expecting Nadeko to trust his words right after telling her "you can't trust words".

He was completely convinced Nadeko is a gullible idiot that would never even think of questioning a lie. He thought he didn't even have to try with her. He was overconfident and he severely underestimated her.

The only thing that can save him now is the content of the closet. He deemed it nonsensical and useless but he's wrong. It may be nonsensical to him, but to Nadeko, whatever she is hiding is extremely important, and such it can be used against her. Kaiki's problem, as Yotsugi pointed out, is that he lacks empathy (he doesn't lack sympathy, however, or he wouldn't even be helping right now). He has no idea how other people think or feel. He can only deceive Nadeko if he manages to truly understand her. Right now he only has a superficial understanding. He needs to dig deeper.

[GDB]

If this had been done earlier in the season, I'd assume Kaiki was F'd and failed. But since it's the last arc, I can only assume he'll pull out of this. Don't see them leaving the season on that kind of cliffhanger, unless they tease a season 3 right at the end of the episode.

[Humble Loser]

By using such a common lie, Kaiki should have brought a prop to help assist the lie. Since Nadeko is a God who stays in the shrine, having a fake paper with a report of the supposed accident would help. Of course, Nadeko could still choose not to believe Kaiki. But in that circumstance, unless Araragi met Nadeko somehow (thus being seen by her), Nadeko would either just not believe for the sake of not believing, or have to at least have a logical reason to reject the claim (like if she sneaks out and reads papers to know the story is fake, but that is highly unlikely).

[HandofFate]

damn, Kaiki such a hero.

Saving and helping people thru scams. Sometimes that's the only way possible in some scenarios.

Nadeko scary in the last scene.

[omimon]

I actually wanted Nadeko to drink the bottle using only one hand holding onto the neck. It would have been so based. I guess you can't win them all.

[AmeNoJaku]

Wow!!! the mentally-regressing--under-aged--emergent-goddess Nadeko was really quick to call Kaiki's trick this time around... interesting, I wonder if Hitagi will come to save him?

But do we need six episodes for this arc? The story is interesting providing depth to Nadeko and confirming Hitagi feelings, but the storytelling in the anime is slower than Kaiki's speech-speed.

PS: So there were beers in the closet or not? (if it's not a major plot-point please PM me a spoiler)

[ndqanh_vn]

Originally Posted by AmeNoJaku

But do we need six episodes for this arc? The story is interesting providing depth to Nadeko and confirming Hitagi feelings, but the storytelling in the anime is slower than Kaiki's speech-speed.

PS: So there were beers in the closet or not? (if it's not a major plot-point please PM me a spoiler)

Shaft's timming is very messy this season. Kabuki should have had at least one more episode, and you could really tell they tried to drag this arc as much as possible. They should just fly through the dialogue with Hanekawa, there're nothing important there, the only thing I see as worth mentioning is just the fact that Meme has no relatives. Unless you're Hanekawa's fan, it did not worth the screentime it is given.

I feel it funny that this arc gives me more insights in Kaiki-Hitagi relationship than Araragi-Hitagi, except the always repeated premise that she's willing to do anything to help him, with is not really surprising and easy to forecast if you know Nishio's over the top writing technique. Kaiki and Hitagi, on the other hand, proved to be a complicated one, with both sides trying to hold back their own emotion and thought, both present and past .

Even though it is comfirmed that they're the official couple, the fact that Araragi and Hitag did not have a single dialoque or appeared in the same scene in this season (Therefore no chemistry, no development, nothing) really make me feel their love is moving to the Informed Relationship catergories.

And really, I think this cannot be helped as it is in the novel, I really don't like seeing the rainbow goldfish loli again. She has ticked me the wrong way with her trying-to-be-cute antics since Onimonogatari.

[-Sho-]

Damn Kaiki better not die. I didn't really keep my interest until this arc.

[Bakaizer]

i hope that obvious lie is part of his plan

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by ndqanh_vn

Even though it is comfirmed that they're the official couple, the fact that Araragi and Hitag did not have a single dialoque or appeared in the same scene in this season (Therefore no chemistry, no development, nothing) really make me feel their love is moving to the Informed Relationship catergories.

I don't see it like that. This reminds me of Gundam Seed when people complain we don't see Lacus and Kira making out and act like horny teenagers onscreen. This isn't like western TV shows were couples have to prove they are in love by flurting onscreen all the time. You don't see them together not because they don't want to be, but because it is not relevant to the story.

A couple's business is private. This is common in anime, and NOT in anyway implying their relationship is in trouble.

[ndqanh_vn]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I don't see it like that. This reminds me of Gundam Seed when people complain we don't see Lacus and Kira making out and act like horny teenagers onscreen. This isn't like western TV shows were couples have to prove they are in love by flurting onscreen all the time. You don't see them together not because they don't want to be, but because it is not relevant to the story.

A couple's business is private. This is common in anime, and NOT in anyway implying their relationship is in trouble.

I don't think that they ARE in trouble. They just did not make me feel like they are a couple. I don't need a couple to always be in the focus for the whole season, I just need occasional details to remind me that they're in love, that they're growing as a couple. I don't need they to act as horny teenager or be lovey-dovey on screen, don't put words into my mouth. Haven't watched any Gundam anime so really don't have a clue what you're talking about when mentioned it.

What I mean is that sooner or later I would accept the fact that they're dating as a fact that I am told by the writer, not something I could see.

The first season of Bakemonogatari built the romance while running the plot really well. You continue with "Araragi going around solving problems, adding girls into his harem" format, but the relationship of him and Hitagi is showed as evolving. From a naive young man without much thinking about himself, he started to show concern and hope for a future with her. Too bad that character development is nowhere to be seen this season.

In a sense I think their relationship has reached a mark when nothing much could be built upon anymore (by the writer). "Nothing is more boring that a story about a successful love" - quoted Tatami Galaxy.


However...

...this season (25 episodes and around 4, 5 novels) is damn long already for the official couple not having any screentime together, however short it is. Araragi is still so busy molesting loli it seems.