AnimeSuki Forums

Dark Mage · 2010-05-13, 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by uguysrstupid

lol, people still saying Eba is cruel. So if a seriously ill friend asked you out on a date, you would have the heart to flat-out reject her/him? I'm not saying what Eba did is cool (going out with someone out of pity), but she definitely was doing this out of compassion.

In the long-run that will hurt them even more and any doctor, psychologist, your friends will advise against that move and yes I will reject the guy flat out and tell him the truth to spare him pain later on. You may not have the heart but truth isnt always sweet, its not compassion, its cruelty. You should know better unless you are a 13 year old and too immature to see that

Miles Teg · 2010-05-13, 14:09

Spoiler for chapter 90, last week spoiler have also started to appear this soon so perhaps it's not fake.

Spoiler for Chapter 90:

If you want to speak about this spoiler don't forget to use spoiler tag

HayashiTakara · 2010-05-13, 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miles Teg

Spoiler for chapter 90, last week spoiler have also started to appear this soon so perhaps it's not fake.

Spoiler for Chapter 90:

If you want to speak about this spoiler don't forget to use spoiler tag

Something smells like goose shit and I don't like it. Like I said earlier... until we know Eba's motive, we are being premature with judging her atm.

SkoolRumble4Ya · 2010-05-13, 14:17

I think Haruto needs to pull a Wayne Brady on Eba

Sinestra · 2010-05-13, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Something smells like goose shit and I don't like it. Like I said earlier... until we know Eba's motive, we are being premature with judging her atm.

Yea i agree somethings not right

Xaturas · 2010-05-13, 14:20

Wonder who that X is in this spoiler.
Anyway lets hope that 90 will allow this manga to move on and that we won't end with the "main girl" ending.
I myself usualy dont root for any particular person in stories however this time seriously I would wish for non main girl ending, even if she will cry a river. As I look at current shounen romance mangas (shoujo is out of my part, and I didn't find any good seien), its really tiresome when mangas are predictable. I mean its nice and all to see how both of them strive but sometimes its good when its real life alike and people just move on in different directions. For example I would bring School Days anime, and its "rape" scene and "nice boat scene".
Anyway thank you all for nice discussion its really a nice read, even if both sides are right (eba folowers and haters).

Miles Teg · 2010-05-13, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkoolRumble4Ya

I think Haruto needs to pull a Wayne Brady on Eba

Can you explain for people who don't know who is and what has done Wayne Brady

freedomrulez · 2010-05-13, 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miles Teg

Can you explain for people who don't know who is and what has done Wayne Brady

Spoiler:

Waven · 2010-05-13, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Mage

That's not fair to people you know? I have read alot of shounen/seinen romance and I have met up with you on forums so you should know, I m not lying and I have seen bad female protagonists. But I have never seen anyone as cruel, uncouth, ungrateful like Eba. Not to mention, the main problem that KNIM has is, Seo Kuji has turned this into a reverse harem which is a Shoujo thing and since this genre is Shounen, reverse harem has no place in Shounens, its a gender thing, since you have read so many mangas, you should get what I mean.

If you don't feel adressed then you probably aren't and I know you are reasonable. Still I think there are a lot of people out here that fit my post quite nicely. It's just the small difference between stating "It IS bad writing (because I say so)" and "I don't like it".

The other thing is, I've never thought much of the shoujo-parallel idea here (nor did I at the GE thread where it occured as well). I really don't see Eba's behavior as typical shoujo. First there's no harem with just 2 guys, it's a triangle. Second, she's neither fickle nor undecided, she's troubled but she knows exactly what she's doing and the damage she's causing and it hurts her as one can see so it's not like she doesn't care either.

Also to me raising this specific claim to shounen series is like saying: Since the protagonist is male and the target audience is mostly male the female lead has to be only caring, loving and extremely devoted to the protagonist (tsundere: minus the caring-part). Personally that's a concept I'd only expect from a series that doesn't have romance as its main (here: only) feature like in shonen action. In a pure romance series like this however having a female lead with an ambiguous character while still clearly not depicted as a "villain" is something i don't perceive as bad.

Johnny · 2010-05-13, 14:41

Spoiler for ch90:

Dorsai · 2010-05-13, 14:42

Quote:

I think Haruto needs to pull a Wayne Brady on Eba

Ehh grow up kid....

Dark Mage hahahah yes ofc its now shoujo manga.... Give me a break...

You must understand that now Seo dont really care about target audience, popularity of manga etc... He have some idea in his mind and he want simply to finish this, no matter what... He is brave, he have o lot courage in his work, but you cant do somithing good without this... Just simply wait till he finish his work and only after that judge his works...

DragoZERO · 2010-05-13, 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Mage

That's not fair to people you know? I have read alot of shounen/seinen romance and I have met up with you on forums so you should know, I m not lying and I have seen bad female protagonists. But I have never seen anyone as cruel, uncouth, ungrateful like Eba.

Not to mention, the main problem that KNIM has is, Seo Kuji has turned this into a reverse harem which is a Shoujo thing and since this genre is Shounen, reverse harem has no place in Shounens, its a gender thing, since you have read so many mangas, you should get what I mean. Its turned into a reverse harem, that is in other words one girl and two guys (actually three if you consider Eba flirting with Nanami's elder brother) going after her while she plays with both, which is a shoujo, and damnit this is supposed to be a shounen. I dont want reverse harem in my shounen, its a gender thing. Granted you do get cheating, breaking-up in Seinens.

But name me one shounen romance, where, the main-girl dumps the main guy for another guy after being in a relationship. Dont mention GE as Shou and Utsumi werent going out, and dont mention Ichigo100% as Nishino never went out with another guy. Its a shounen so we as guys dont like to see the main guy dropped in favour of another guy. And since there's is almost no other shounen out there where the girl break-up and dumps the main guy for another guy, you cant accuse people of not used to this genre or not reading enough mangas. Its just hard to swallow.

All, very good points. But we have only touched on Yuzuki & Kazama's relationship. And so far there hasn't been any heavy NTR, I mean, Haruto could have walked in on them kissing. That would have been a zillion times worse, for him and the readers, instead of hearing her say his first name with such concern and caring.

Bah, we have to see what happens. I still don't think this is bad story telling though.

Raw spoilers already!? Damnit....talk to you guys in a week I guess.

Dark Mage · 2010-05-13, 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waven

If you don't feel adressed then you probably aren't and I know you are reasonable. Still I think there are a lot of people out here that fit my post quite nicely. It's just the small difference between stating "It IS bad writing (because I say so)" and "I don't like it".

The other thing is, I've never thought much of the shoujo-parallel idea here (nor did I at the GE thread where it occured as well). I really don't see Eba's behavior as typical shoujo. First there's no harem with just 2 guys, it's a triangle. Second, she's neither fickle nor undecided, she's troubled but she knows exactly what she's doing and the damage she's causing and it hurts her as one can see so it's not like she doesn't care either.

Also to me raising this specific claim to shounen series is like saying: Since the protagonist is male and the target audience is mostly male the female lead has to be only caring, loving and extremely devoted to the protagonist (tsundere: minus the caring-part). Personally that's a concept I'd only expect from a series that doesn't have romance as its main (here: only) feature like in shonen action. In a pure romance series like this however having a female lead with an ambiguous character while still clearly not depicted as a "villain" is something i don't perceive as bad.

IUtg is reverse harem because its more than a love triangle, like I said, I havent read a shounen romance where the main-girl get s into a relationship and dumps the main-guy for the other guy, that has never happened in any shounen romance, its just not likaeable and the way Eba did it is even more bad. GE wasnt like that coz Shou wasnt Utsumi's GF. Its not only true for Shounen where romance isnt the main concept, just give me one shounen romance where the main girl is in a relationship with the main girl and breaks-up to go out with another guy. Just one will suffice. And there;s a good reason because guys dont like to see girls in Shounen cheating on the main guy for another guy. I know its not fair to girls and not equal but then that's why its a shounen and the target audience are predominantly male who like thir female protagonist unsullied with another guy.

Sinta · 2010-05-13, 15:23

I'm sorry i don't give a crap about Eba's reason, i don't care if she is working with the CIA or the Japanese version of it and they are strict orders not to talk to boys from the country side. She chased him, then pulls this crap. No, I'm pretty tolerante but no.

Dark Mage · 2010-05-13, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

All, very good points. But we have only touched on Yuzuki & Kazama's relationship. And so far there hasn't been any heavy NTR, I mean, Haruto could have walked in on them kissing. That would have been a zillion times worse, for him and the readers, instead of hearing her say his first name with such concern and caring.

Bah, we have to see what happens. I still don't think this is bad story telling though.

Raw spoilers already!? Damnit....talk to you guys in a week I guess.

Since I dont quite get the NTR concept I wont go there, but there's been some cheating involved, as Eba kissed Haruto when she had already become Kazama's girlfriend, so that's considered cheating right?

DragoZERO · 2010-05-13, 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Mage

Since I dont quite get the NTR concept I wont go there, but there's been some cheating involved, as Eba kissed Haruto when she had already become Kazama's girlfriend, so that's considered cheating right?

Sorry but, we do not know when she started going out with Kazama.

Dark Mage · 2010-05-13, 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

Sorry but, we do not know when she started going out with Kazama.

yeah it all might be conjecture at this point but if you think logically, she had the letter with her in the bag which said, if I remember correctly that she has said "Yes" to a boy who rejected her in middle-school. So since she accepted his confession, then she is already his girlfriend. And as we can certainly assume she wrote the break-up letter after she giving accepting Kazama's confession, doesnt that mean she was already his girl? Which might also explain why Eba was looking around so furtively after the kiss, she didnt want to be seen and Rin wanted to show Haruto something(I really want to know what). But like you said these are merely theories, but as you might say this is improbable then the opposite is also true that you cant be sure that she wasnt chjeating as we arent sure about the timeline. She might have been cheating and she might not....they are both possible outcomes.

And for the record, I dont have much problems if a girl has another guy as her boyfriend other than the main guy as afterall I still like Shou but my problem is I dont like the girl dumping the main-guy after being in a relationship for some other guy especially after when the said guy has done so much for you and another strong point of Shou was, she apologised profusely even though Utsumi wasnt even her boyfriend, but nothing of that kind of courtesy came from Eba

Master Chibi · 2010-05-13, 16:11

I say it's bad writing because the pacing has been pretty horrid for the past 10 chapters or so, and simply changing matters / personalities or having things work out of sheer convenience regardless of the result doesn't sit well with me, especially given with what we've been given thus far. At this point Eba is a cardboard cutout with $2 speaker attached.

Also I'm not mad or angry, as I have seen this type of thing happen before, but here it strikes me as being funny. Not entirely sure why, I suppose I don't want to invest much anything into the characters from this point on, I'll just sit on the sidelines with a bucket of popcorn every so often to catch a glimpse.

Shadow5YA · 2010-05-13, 16:40

This manga just took a turn for the predictable.

Here's probably how it turned out: After Eba met Haruto at the festival during her childhood, he's been on her mind ever since, because for some reason the whole childhood friend = love interest idea is a popular romance idea in Japan.

After that, she still goes back to Tokyo and spends her middle school days there. During middle school, a simple minded guy sees this pretty girl in his first days of school and blushes, thinking "She's cute." Since the middle school kid is so direct and simple-minded, he confronts her without much buildup and demands, "Please go out with me!" The girl is obviously surprised and thinks the situation is awkward, but cute at the same time. She politely rejects him. The guy is fairly stubborn and headstrong, so he takes it as a challenge and continues to ask her until she says yes. The girl continues to decline his offer, though they do become friends... until the girl decides to leave for Hiroshima. The guy still doesn't give up, and promises that he'll wait for her to come back to ask her out again.

Cue the events of the manga. Eba gets to live with the boy of her childhood dreams, and she couldn't be any happier... until they go to school and Eba realizes that Haruto has forgotten Eba and has his eyes on Nanami now. Eba thinks she's prefectly fine... though if you had any experience with girls, you would know that when girls say they're fine, they're never really 100% fine about it. At least she still gets to spend time with Haruto... at least that's what Eba tells herself. Cue her unimportant family drama (seriously, was it ever brought up again after it was all over?). Her parents want her home, but ultimately it's up to Eba to decide. She's thinking about it... the only guy she has her eyes on has moved on, so maybe she should forget about Haruto too and move back to Tokyo. So, being the girl she is and expecting the guy, Haruto, to understand her subliminal messaging, nonchalantly brings up the news that she's heading back to Tokyo soon. Haruto, being the idiot the he is, says "Sure, that's great!" That settled it for Eba; she's definitely leaving her Hiroshima memories behind. But just as she's mentally preparing to get Haruto out of her mind, Haruto finally begins showing interest in Eba. Eba thinks that she already made up her mind to give Haruto up, so she pretends that Nanami's brother is already going to the festival with her. Haruto decides to be more forceful, and Eba caves. They start going out, even though it's too late for Eba to cancel her trip back to Tokyo.

Back in Tokyo, Kazama is overjoyed to see Eba back and their routine continues. Eba rejects Kazama so routinely now that it never crosses her mind to tell Kazama that she's (officially) taken now, and she's happy. Then, shortly before Nanami puts her moves on Haruto and asks her to be her boyfriend for a day, Kazama collapses from anemia one day in front of Eba, which shocks her. Eba takes him to a clinic, where she finds out about Kazama's disease. When Kazama's condition improves, he smiles like always and says "This is nothing!" Eba begins admiring Kazama for putting on a happy face, even under his circumstances. She starts seeing him in a new light, like as if an unpopular geek suddenly manned up and took a bullet like a hero. Eba finally begins thinking about Kazama's confession seriously, but what pushes her over the edge is when she has the whole train fiasco with Haruto, then ends up seeing him with Nanami.

Sure, she says she's fine with it after Haruto explained the situation, but I know that plenty of girls are never actually fine when they say they are. Coincidentally, after that incident, Eba brings up the possibility of breaking up, and she never responds to Haruto's calls anymore. It's obvious that Eba is still hung up on the idea that Haruto could still like Nanami. Add that to Kazama's unintentional guilt-tripping, and Eba ends up dumping Haruto and going for Kazama. The letter stuffed into Haruto's sweater doesn't take that long to write. It could be done at the last minute for all we know, since it was just stuffed into a sweater instead of being formally mailed out.

Most likely, Eba ended up asking Kazama out. Kazama probably thought that his persistence paid off.

It makes perfect sense, but the whole problem I have with this is Eba's character. Seo Kouji made her a cheerful girl who likes to put up a front to hide her problems back in Hiroshima. Now, the mangaka pulls her childhood personality back out from nowhere and turns Eba back into a perpetual troubled mope. I'd be fine with this drama if Eba at least pretended she was happy like back in Hiroshima. I liked it back when she was perky.

Master Chibi · 2010-05-13, 16:47

Reading all of that makes me want to kick puppies into traffic.

The worst part is that almost makes sense, but not enough to not drop kick puppies into traffic.

With steel toe boots.

During rush hour.

2010-05-13, 14:09	Link #3162
Miles Teg Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Le Mans, France	Spoiler for chapter 90, last week spoiler have also started to appear this soon so perhaps it's not fake. Spoiler for Chapter 90: "The town, where he lives" After Yuzuki's introduction, they are talking for a short while, but the atmosphere in the room is unpleasant. (Kazama is pictured, as if something is on his mind/he's worried about something) Mishima: "Well, well then, seems we are a nuisance, so let's leave" Haruto, who felt the atmospehre urged to leave the room. After exiting the room, it's the usual. Haruto is mindless/souless feeling in blank amazement Mishima is aware of Haruto's situation and tries to ask about his story. Haruto: "It's nothing" He rejects Mishima with it. They argue with eachother and Mishima returns angry to where she was before. Haruto remains for a while on the same spot, when Yuzuki appears Haruto: "Eba ..." Eba: "Haruto-kun, I'm sorry for earlier. But (please) don't visit Kyouske and me anymore. (Please) return back to Hiroshima Haruto: "I... I" Eba. "Nanami-chan is waiting! ..." Haruto was about to say something. Yuzuki left immediately and Haruto couldn't continue (to talk) due to her seriousface and those words. Haruto watched as Eba disappeared in the distance. Afterwards, he returned home. It appears that Yuzuki returned to Kazama's (hospital) room but on contrary, in the bathroom she is suppressing her voice while breaking down crying. Mishima heard this time everything about their coversation (Yuzuki + Haruto's) and has doubts. (The truth is, she returned because she's worried about Haruto) Haruto arrived at home and by the way Mishima stood in front of the door (She anticipated the situation). Haruto "Mishima ..." At the same time, at a certain Toukyou train station ... X "Here is the town where he (Haruto-kun) lives ... If you want to speak about this spoiler don't forget to use spoiler tag

2010-05-13, 14:41	Link #3170
Johnny Working the bags... Join Date: Mar 2009	Spoiler for ch90: Don't buy them tears Haruto. They be them ever so cunning crocodile tears... I would say that X could be anybody, but we all seen that Kazama was Eba's boyfriend a mile away. So is it safe to say that X is Nanami?

2010-05-13, 15:23	Link #3174
Sinta Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006	I'm sorry i don't give a crap about Eba's reason, i don't care if she is working with the CIA or the Japanese version of it and they are strict orders not to talk to boys from the country side. She chased him, then pulls this crap. No, I'm pretty tolerante but no. __________________ Free Ebook - Harmonics: Rise of the Magician http://amzn.to/qCBysY

2010-05-13, 16:11	Link #3178
Master Chibi .: A bad doggy :. Join Date: Jun 2007	I say it's bad writing because the pacing has been pretty horrid for the past 10 chapters or so, and simply changing matters / personalities or having things work out of sheer convenience regardless of the result doesn't sit well with me, especially given with what we've been given thus far. At this point Eba is a cardboard cutout with $2 speaker attached. Also I'm not mad or angry, as I have seen this type of thing happen before, but here it strikes me as being funny. Not entirely sure why, I suppose I don't want to invest much anything into the characters from this point on, I'll just sit on the sidelines with a bucket of popcorn every so often to catch a glimpse. __________________ ~*Hai! Back to Japan! Updated once a week - http://pishi.wordpress.com/ Last updated - 5/30/10 - Random Manga Roulette!

2010-05-13, 16:47	Link #3180
Master Chibi .: A bad doggy :. Join Date: Jun 2007	Reading all of that makes me want to kick puppies into traffic. The worst part is that almost makes sense, but not enough to not drop kick puppies into traffic. With steel toe boots. During rush hour. __________________ ~*Hai! Back to Japan! Updated once a week - http://pishi.wordpress.com/ Last updated - 5/30/10 - Random Manga Roulette!

2010-05-13, 14:17	Link #3164
SkoolRumble4Ya Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: California	I think Haruto needs to pull a Wayne Brady on Eba

2010-05-13, 14:20	Link #3166
Xaturas Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010	Wonder who that X is in this spoiler. Anyway lets hope that 90 will allow this manga to move on and that we won't end with the "main girl" ending. I myself usualy dont root for any particular person in stories however this time seriously I would wish for non main girl ending, even if she will cry a river. As I look at current shounen romance mangas (shoujo is out of my part, and I didn't find any good seien), its really tiresome when mangas are predictable. I mean its nice and all to see how both of them strive but sometimes its good when its real life alike and people just move on in different directions. For example I would bring School Days anime, and its "rape" scene and "nice boat scene". Anyway thank you all for nice discussion its really a nice read, even if both sides are right (eba folowers and haters).

2010-05-13, 16:40	Link #3179
Shadow5YA Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010	This manga just took a turn for the predictable. Here's probably how it turned out: After Eba met Haruto at the festival during her childhood, he's been on her mind ever since, because for some reason the whole childhood friend = love interest idea is a popular romance idea in Japan. After that, she still goes back to Tokyo and spends her middle school days there. During middle school, a simple minded guy sees this pretty girl in his first days of school and blushes, thinking "She's cute." Since the middle school kid is so direct and simple-minded, he confronts her without much buildup and demands, "Please go out with me!" The girl is obviously surprised and thinks the situation is awkward, but cute at the same time. She politely rejects him. The guy is fairly stubborn and headstrong, so he takes it as a challenge and continues to ask her until she says yes. The girl continues to decline his offer, though they do become friends... until the girl decides to leave for Hiroshima. The guy still doesn't give up, and promises that he'll wait for her to come back to ask her out again. Cue the events of the manga. Eba gets to live with the boy of her childhood dreams, and she couldn't be any happier... until they go to school and Eba realizes that Haruto has forgotten Eba and has his eyes on Nanami now. Eba thinks she's prefectly fine... though if you had any experience with girls, you would know that when girls say they're fine, they're never really 100% fine about it. At least she still gets to spend time with Haruto... at least that's what Eba tells herself. Cue her unimportant family drama (seriously, was it ever brought up again after it was all over?). Her parents want her home, but ultimately it's up to Eba to decide. She's thinking about it... the only guy she has her eyes on has moved on, so maybe she should forget about Haruto too and move back to Tokyo. So, being the girl she is and expecting the guy, Haruto, to understand her subliminal messaging, nonchalantly brings up the news that she's heading back to Tokyo soon. Haruto, being the idiot the he is, says "Sure, that's great!" That settled it for Eba; she's definitely leaving her Hiroshima memories behind. But just as she's mentally preparing to get Haruto out of her mind, Haruto finally begins showing interest in Eba. Eba thinks that she already made up her mind to give Haruto up, so she pretends that Nanami's brother is already going to the festival with her. Haruto decides to be more forceful, and Eba caves. They start going out, even though it's too late for Eba to cancel her trip back to Tokyo. Back in Tokyo, Kazama is overjoyed to see Eba back and their routine continues. Eba rejects Kazama so routinely now that it never crosses her mind to tell Kazama that she's (officially) taken now, and she's happy. Then, shortly before Nanami puts her moves on Haruto and asks her to be her boyfriend for a day, Kazama collapses from anemia one day in front of Eba, which shocks her. Eba takes him to a clinic, where she finds out about Kazama's disease. When Kazama's condition improves, he smiles like always and says "This is nothing!" Eba begins admiring Kazama for putting on a happy face, even under his circumstances. She starts seeing him in a new light, like as if an unpopular geek suddenly manned up and took a bullet like a hero. Eba finally begins thinking about Kazama's confession seriously, but what pushes her over the edge is when she has the whole train fiasco with Haruto, then ends up seeing him with Nanami. Sure, she says she's fine with it after Haruto explained the situation, but I know that plenty of girls are never actually fine when they say they are. Coincidentally, after that incident, Eba brings up the possibility of breaking up, and she never responds to Haruto's calls anymore. It's obvious that Eba is still hung up on the idea that Haruto could still like Nanami. Add that to Kazama's unintentional guilt-tripping, and Eba ends up dumping Haruto and going for Kazama. The letter stuffed into Haruto's sweater doesn't take that long to write. It could be done at the last minute for all we know, since it was just stuffed into a sweater instead of being formally mailed out. Most likely, Eba ended up asking Kazama out. Kazama probably thought that his persistence paid off. It makes perfect sense, but the whole problem I have with this is Eba's character. Seo Kouji made her a cheerful girl who likes to put up a front to hide her problems back in Hiroshima. Now, the mangaka pulls her childhood personality back out from nowhere and turns Eba back into a perpetual troubled mope. I'd be fine with this drama if Eba at least pretended she was happy like back in Hiroshima. I liked it back when she was perky.