AnimeSuki Forums

sa547 · 2013-04-16, 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimidori

I don't think so, cause some game forum I been to bash anyone who say anything good about CoD, say it brainless, for kid...etc...

One of the reasons that I refuse to subscribe to game fanboyism.

Snuffle · 2013-04-16, 08:58

First of all... all of this is my opinion, I might forget to mention that here and there, so I'm taking the effort to state it first.

I originally was going to avoid this topic, but I keep seeing it near the top of the page when I come here, it's been getting on my nerves.

Discussions like these I find to be pointless, since most of the time what is considered to be a true middle ground (appealing to both genders) is utterly boring! (of course that's just my opinion)

First we must ask the question, what is a "game for women?"

It's been brought up, but not a single person clearly stated what would a game for women entail. Would it be large amount of drama and relationships like a soap opera? Would there be a lot of clothes customization like how rpgs have? (I really like that kinda feature, few games have that). But really, what do women really want in games? Have they voiced their preference enough that it became well known? I'm certainly not aware of anything like that.

Men and Women have different types of interests. I personally believe this is mostly biological, the rest are the minorities for whatever reason. Which brings up another question. Why should any company invest most of their profit to cater to the minorities? The way I see it, it's like a fashion company or a jewelry making company creating products primarily for the male market. This does not mean that there shouldn't be anything for the male audience that like fashion and clothes, but they are the minority. The problem is: Who is buying more of the clothes? Who is buying more of the jewelry? It's women. But why is it women and not men? Simple, most men are not as interested in those kind of things when compared to women. It just doesn't make sense to spend hard earned profit on something that will bring you less profit that you would otherwise make. So it's NOT about "forgetting" the female audience, it's just that females are just not that interested in gaming when compared to males. This is the reason there are so few games which are considered to be for girls. There was some statistic here that there were something like 40% female and 60% male gamers. But I find those numbers to be a little skewed to a specific genre of games.

I have personally met a few women and teenage girls that do play games, and when I say few, I really mean just a few. What were the other teen girls doing? Talking about relationships, clothes, some TV show they've watched which is mostly catered to the female audience (I'm not making this up, I've seen this first hand). And what were the teen guys doing? Talking about sports, games, silly random things guys tend to do, some TV show they've watched which is mostly catered to the male audience..... I forgot where I was going with this... sorry about that lol.

Now let me just nitpick on something that was said here somewhere, or at least implied unintentionally. Just because a game has a large male audience, does that automatically mean that the game cannot be enjoyed by women? I personally find an opinion like that to be ridiculous. Does this mean that in order for a game to be a game for women, the majority of the sales must be from female buyers? Just a question I thought I'd throw out there.

Duo Maxwell · 2013-04-16, 09:17

I think the problem is because people pay way too much attention to which target the games are aiming for. I don't hesitate to tell people that I enjoys The Sim 3, which to some people are game that cater to female. I don't care what people's opinion about the game I'm playing as long as I enjoy it. Being an minority doesn't make the game less interesting to me anyway.

Jan-Poo · 2013-04-16, 09:37

There's this strange fact about "the sims", and that's that while the predominance of female players that enjoy it is absolutely palpable, it seems that the developers are going to a complete different direction from what those players actually want.

You just need to take a look at the modding community and what's the most popular trend among them. And I think it's more than evident what kind of direction they are taking. For the most part they try to improve realism, and to transform the sims in models you can see in fashion magazines. Premade sims even if males show large amount of make up, extremely fashionable clothes, awesome hairstyles and so on.

And what do the developers give you instead? Cartoons! Freaking Cartoons!
What do you think it's more appealing to the female population? Cartoons or Soap operas?

There are a lot of people that never touched the sims 3 because they can't stand the pudding faces. And I'm one of them.

Duo Maxwell · 2013-04-16, 09:57

You made me curious. I have never bothered with the mod, but I guess I'll try some to see how it turn out.

ArchmageXin · 2013-04-16, 10:41

All of you guys and gals for got another thing.

Game developers are usually the guys growing up being ridiculed as the "man who can't get a date" Or dissed by women as "nerds, geeks and losers"

When they become developers, their minds are all shaped to a specific vision that probably aren't female centric. Or even realize the fact women play games. :P

It is changing with the current generation (I met a 12 years old cutie girl who decided to play a game of smash brothers with me at a Game store when I was in Boston). In the 90s where I grew up? Women wouldn't be caught dead with a game controller, and all of us guys hide our video games (and pornz) when a girl come visit, finding a game console in your bedroom gave you much stigma as sexting your manhood to the cheerleader squad.

So it is up to girls in this generation tell the male dev what they want...or become developers themselves.

Key Board · 2013-04-16, 17:48

exactly

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...9&postcount=69

I just hope times will change this

Kameruka · 2013-04-16, 18:33

I think thread OP is asking if there is any high-budget games that are friendlier to female gamers. Sadly there aren't any besides some rather awful Barbie and Bratz games mostly in PS1/PS2 era. It did sucks to be a female gamer though.

Interestingly Sword Girls(online trading card game) is popular to female gamers as well to male ones. In some places even outnumber the male ones(maybe due to strong anime/manga influence in them). My own theory is that's one of few best things for them can have. I also suspect some of the female fans are developing bishounen or shouta version of the game just they did not announce their work yet.

Chaos2Frozen · 2013-04-16, 19:17

Female gamers that play big budget AAA games usually don't care that its designed for guys.

Those who don't play those, are happy with what they have.

And besides, what would a big budget AAA female focus game be about? We already covered the sim franchise....

Hooves · 2013-04-16, 19:22

Konakaga introduced me to "Extra Credit" and this is exactly the video I saw before this thread started. Which is why I find this discussion timing to be ironic.

FateAnomaly · 2013-04-16, 21:30

This is pointless. No one is able to fully define male or female oriented games. Age of the gamer also play a part in what he/she choose to play.

Kyero Fox · 2013-04-16, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooves

Konakaga introduced me to "Extra Credit" and this is exactly the video I saw before this thread started. Which is why I find this discussion timing to be ironic.

Amen to that video. Stop it... New Lara croft is still a example of this...stop it.

Key Board · 2013-04-16, 23:54

The same lara that they inserted into playboy? boy that sure went well did it?
Don't bother changing her image. There's little you can do.
Instead MAKE A NEW IP with this new target audience in mind.
Make a new heroine. Make a new story.

Changing Lara at this point is like changing Dante

It's not going to work and you are only going to annoy people.

..

Chaos2Frozen · 2013-04-17, 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Key Board

The same lara that they inserted into playboy? boy that sure went well did it?
Don't bother changing her image. There's little you can do.
Instead MAKE A NEW IP with this new target audience in mind.
Make a new heroine. Make a new story.

Changing Lara at this point is like changing Dante

It's not going to work and you are only going to annoy people.

..

Nah, they just didn't make it dark and edgy enough, with Shakespearean dialogues.

synaesthetic · 2013-04-17, 00:22

The Tomb Raider reboot sold really well, but it was just so damn expensive, and the publisher had unrealistic expectations, that even with 3.4 million copies sold it still didn't cross the finish line.

saravis · 2013-04-17, 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

Amen to that video. Stop it... New Lara croft is still a example of this...stop it.

It isn't going to stop, it will never stop, forget gaming, "Sex Sells" has existed in media since the first artist realized he could draw pictures of naked women and they would sell. "Sex sells" exists in all forms of media; books, movies, tv, even music. So I would hardly say the objectification of women is the reason for lack of women in gaming

Furthermore, you don't develop an industry by suppressing the ideas of others, you do it by coming out with even better ideas. I have absolutely no idea what women want from gaming, I'm not a woman, but if women have an interest, start making suggestions or better yet, get into the industry.

Kyero Fox · 2013-04-17, 08:58

They didn't even TRY to make her not a sex object, still has a lot of cleavage showing and they even gave her a more super model look. Hell the older one looked less sex object than the new one.

EDIT: ugh.. god damn it... http://lp.koramgame.com/9862534/1047251/f001 <--- the fuck is this?

synaesthetic · 2013-04-17, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Key Board

The same lara that they inserted into playboy? boy that sure went well did it?
Don't bother changing her image. There's little you can do.
Instead MAKE A NEW IP with this new target audience in mind.
Make a new heroine. Make a new story.

Changing Lara at this point is like changing Dante

It's not going to work and you are only going to annoy people.

..

Nobody wants to make a new IP because they're terrified it won't do well. That's why we have so many sequels and spin-offs and gaiden games.

The game industry needs to dig its head out of its ass, stop being so spec-obsessed, stop with the enormously and unnecessarily bloated budgets, stop with hilariously unrealistic sales expectations and try to deliver a fun, engaging experience to the player.

From Software did it with Dark Souls, which sold 2 million copies and was fantastically profitable. Tomb Raider did not, which sold 3.4 million copies and was considered a failure.

Kyero Fox · 2013-04-17, 13:28

The people doing Remember Me got the right idea. Let's just hope its good and sells well.

RRW · 2013-04-17, 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

The people doing Remember Me got the right idea. Let's just hope its good and sells well.

doubt it. even if it did i will be just another uncharted with female MC

2013-04-16, 08:58	Link #102
Snuffle likes cute things Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Searching for more imoutos Age: 43	First of all... all of this is my opinion, I might forget to mention that here and there, so I'm taking the effort to state it first. I originally was going to avoid this topic, but I keep seeing it near the top of the page when I come here, it's been getting on my nerves. Discussions like these I find to be pointless, since most of the time what is considered to be a true middle ground (appealing to both genders) is utterly boring! (of course that's just my opinion) First we must ask the question, what is a "game for women?" It's been brought up, but not a single person clearly stated what would a game for women entail. Would it be large amount of drama and relationships like a soap opera? Would there be a lot of clothes customization like how rpgs have? (I really like that kinda feature, few games have that). But really, what do women really want in games? Have they voiced their preference enough that it became well known? I'm certainly not aware of anything like that. Men and Women have different types of interests. I personally believe this is mostly biological, the rest are the minorities for whatever reason. Which brings up another question. *Why should any company invest most* of their profit to cater to the minorities?** The way I see it, it's like a fashion company or a jewelry making company creating products primarily for the male market. This does not mean that there shouldn't be anything for the male audience that like fashion and clothes, but they are the minority. The problem is: Who is buying more of the clothes? Who is buying more of the jewelry? It's women. But why is it women and not men? Simple, most men are not as interested in those kind of things when compared to women. It just doesn't make sense to spend hard earned profit on something that will bring you less profit that you would otherwise make. So it's NOT about "forgetting" the female audience, it's just that females are just not that interested in gaming when compared to males. This is the reason there are so few games which are considered to be for girls. There was some statistic here that there were something like 40% female and 60% male gamers. But I find those numbers to be a little skewed to a specific genre of games. I have personally met a few women and teenage girls that do play games, and when I say few, I really mean just a few. What were the other teen girls doing? Talking about relationships, clothes, some TV show they've watched which is mostly catered to the female audience (I'm not making this up, I've seen this first hand). And what were the teen guys doing? Talking about sports, games, silly random things guys tend to do, some TV show they've watched which is mostly catered to the male audience..... I forgot where I was going with this... sorry about that lol. Now let me just nitpick on something that was said here somewhere, or at least implied unintentionally. Just because a game has a large male audience, does that automatically mean that the game cannot be enjoyed by women? I personally find an opinion like that to be ridiculous. Does this mean that in order for a game to be a game for women, the majority of the sales must be from female buyers? Just a question I thought I'd throw out there. Last edited by Snuffle; 2013-04-16 at 10:28. Reason: spelling

2013-04-16, 09:17	Link #103
Duo Maxwell A Proud Lolicon Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: In front of my computer Age: 37	I think the problem is because people pay way too much attention to which target the games are aiming for. I don't hesitate to tell people that I enjoys The Sim 3, which to some people are game that cater to female. I don't care what people's opinion about the game I'm playing as long as I enjoy it. Being an minority doesn't make the game less interesting to me anyway. __________________

2013-04-16, 09:37	Link #104
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	There's this strange fact about "the sims", and that's that while the predominance of female players that enjoy it is absolutely palpable, it seems that the developers are going to a complete different direction from what those players actually want. You just need to take a look at the modding community and what's the most popular trend among them. And I think it's more than evident what kind of direction they are taking. For the most part they try to improve realism, and to transform the sims in models you can see in fashion magazines. Premade sims even if males show large amount of make up, extremely fashionable clothes, awesome hairstyles and so on. And what do the developers give you instead? Cartoons! Freaking Cartoons! What do you think it's more appealing to the female population? Cartoons or Soap operas? There are a lot of people that never touched the sims 3 because they can't stand the pudding faces. And I'm one of them. __________________

2013-04-16, 09:57	Link #105
Duo Maxwell A Proud Lolicon Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: In front of my computer Age: 37	You made me curious. I have never bothered with the mod, but I guess I'll try some to see how it turn out. __________________

2013-04-16, 17:48	Link #107
Key Board Carbon Join Date: Nov 2003	exactly http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...9&postcount=69 I just hope times will change this __________________ "Legitimacy is based on three things. First of all, the people who are asked to obey authority have to feel like they have a voice—that if they speak up, they will be heard. Second, the law has to be predictable. There has to be a reasonable expectation that the rules tomorrow are going to be roughly the same as the rules today. And third, the authority has to be fair. It can’t treat one group differently from another.” Malcolm Gladwell

2013-04-16, 10:41	Link #106
ArchmageXin Master of Coin Join Date: Mar 2008	All of you guys and gals for got another thing. Game developers are usually the guys growing up being ridiculed as the "man who can't get a date" Or dissed by women as "nerds, geeks and losers" When they become developers, their minds are all shaped to a specific vision that probably aren't female centric. Or even realize the fact women play games. :P It is changing with the current generation (I met a 12 years old cutie girl who decided to play a game of smash brothers with me at a Game store when I was in Boston). In the 90s where I grew up? Women wouldn't be caught dead with a game controller, and all of us guys hide our video games (and pornz) when a girl come visit, finding a game console in your bedroom gave you much stigma as sexting your manhood to the cheerleader squad. So it is up to girls in this generation tell the male dev what they want...or become developers themselves.

2013-04-16, 18:33	Link #108
Kameruka Hen-Tie Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Hen-Tie pen	I think thread OP is asking if there is any high-budget games that are friendlier to female gamers. Sadly there aren't any besides some rather awful Barbie and Bratz games mostly in PS1/PS2 era. It did sucks to be a female gamer though. Interestingly Sword Girls(online trading card game) is popular to female gamers as well to male ones. In some places even outnumber the male ones(maybe due to strong anime/manga influence in them). My own theory is that's one of few best things for them can have. I also suspect some of the female fans are developing bishounen or shouta version of the game just they did not announce their work yet.

2013-04-16, 19:17	Link #109
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	Female gamers that play big budget AAA games usually don't care that its designed for guys. Those who don't play those, are happy with what they have. And besides, what would a big budget AAA female focus game be about? We already covered the sim franchise.... __________________ Devil Trigger , Subhuman , Crimson Cloud , Mad Qualia

2013-04-16, 21:30	Link #111
FateAnomaly Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007	This is pointless. No one is able to fully define male or female oriented games. Age of the gamer also play a part in what he/she choose to play.

2013-04-16, 23:54	Link #113
Key Board Carbon Join Date: Nov 2003	The same lara that they inserted into playboy? boy that sure went well did it? Don't bother changing her image. There's little you can do. Instead MAKE A NEW IP with this new target audience in mind. Make a new heroine. Make a new story. Changing Lara at this point is like changing Dante It's not going to work and you are only going to annoy people. .. __________________ "Legitimacy is based on three things. First of all, the people who are asked to obey authority have to feel like they have a voice—that if they speak up, they will be heard. Second, the law has to be predictable. There has to be a reasonable expectation that the rules tomorrow are going to be roughly the same as the rules today. And third, the authority has to be fair. It can’t treat one group differently from another.” Malcolm Gladwell

2013-04-17, 00:22	Link #115
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 39	The Tomb Raider reboot sold really well, but it was just so damn expensive, and the publisher had unrealistic expectations, that even with 3.4 million copies sold it still didn't cross the finish line. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2013-04-17, 08:58	Link #117
Kyero Fox Tastes Cloudy Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Snake Way Age: 35	They didn't even TRY to make her not a sex object, still has a lot of cleavage showing and they even gave her a more super model look. Hell the older one looked less sex object than the new one. EDIT: ugh.. god damn it... http://lp.koramgame.com/9862534/1047251/f001 <--- the fuck is this? __________________

2013-04-17, 13:28	Link #119
Kyero Fox Tastes Cloudy Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Snake Way Age: 35	The people doing Remember Me got the right idea. Let's just hope its good and sells well. __________________