Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 09 Discussion / Poll

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Keroko

The only time the Linker Core was affected in battle was when they were drained by Yami no Sho. Beyond that, magic damage seems to mean direct physical damage. What's stopping the magical damage is the barrier jacket.

Direct physical damage... Without the physical damage ?

I kid, I kid...

But I don't think 'physical' is the right word... Something definately hurts, but I don't think that's quite it...

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Direct physical damage... Without the physical damage ?

I kid, I kid...

But I don't think 'physical' is the right word... Something definately hurts, but I don't think that's quite it...

Well, you can control how much power you put in a punch, why not control the amount of power you put in a beam?

Though energy damage seems to be a better word...

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Well, you can control how much power you put in a punch, why not control the amount of power you put in a beam?

Well, yeah of course.

Though energy damage seems to be a better word...

Okay, I think to explain it better, we have to use a term NOT from MSLN's world...

A magic attack seems to be a direct attack on the target's 'soul'... It leaves no marks, but the damage is noticable through fatigue or something other...

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Icarus

Christ, where did these new posts come from?
Must be the anticipation of this forthcoming episode.

RE: Limiters released at season midpoint?
Possibly.
Posted on 4chan:

Spoiler for don't even consider clicking this if you don't want to be spoiled:

Episode 11: Mobile Section 6's Day Off (part II)
A full Air, Ground and Underground assault by gadgets, plus the introduction of a new enemy.
Tia and Subaru fight underground, Elio and Caro on the ground and the Aces in the sky
http://anime.goo.ne.jp/contents/tvan.../11/index.html

Episode 12: Numbers
Believed to be the formal introduction of Scaglietti's big villain o'rama group.
RIVALS FOR EVERYONE.

Spoiler for personal thoughts:

Here's what I'm really curious about the doctor's intention...

What purpose does this attack meant to serve?

To inflict damge to the TSAB? Can't really do that since the RF6 is there and they're more than capable of dealing with any number of drones.

But judging on the way he treats his drones, perhaps it's not too far to say that he's just getting rid of them all at once... To make room for the new babies...

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Well, yeah of course.



Okay, I think to explain it better, we have to use a term NOT from MSLN's world...

A magic attack seems to be a direct attack on the target's 'soul'... It leaves no marks, but the damage is noticable through fatigue or something other...

Disagree, Signum recieved physical damage from Fate's magical scythe. Barier jackets simply protect them from the brunt of the damage.

[johnishida]

Well, its been said that Magical Damage does not affect on a physical way. After all, in A's when Reinforce I used Starlight Breaker in the city, even though it covered quite some distance the buildings were not destroyed yet, Nanoha's Divine Buster does cause physical damage.

So, there should be three types of attacks... Beams, Magic and Physical...

[Meophist]

Fate's magic scythe does physical damage, not just magical damage. It's not magical attacks=magical damage. Magical attacks typically deal a mix of magical and physical damage.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Disagree, Signum recieved physical damage from Fate's magical scythe. Barier jackets simply protect them from the brunt of the damage.

Is it 100% magic ? Cause if it's even slightly bit physical...

And yes, I agree that barrier jackets protect them from magic damage.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by johnishida

So, there should be three types of attacks... Beams, Magic and Physical...

I don't think 'beams' are always a mixed of magic and physical...

[Fuyu no Sora]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Is it 100% magic ? Cause if it's even slightly bit physical...

And yes, I agree that barrier jackets protect them from magic damage.

And a bit of physical damage as well. When Nanoha crashed against that building in A's, she would've gotten knocked out at the very least had she been waering normal clothes.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Fuyu no Sora

And a bit of physical damage as well. When Nanoha crashed against that building in A's, she would've gotten knocked out at the very least had she been waering normal clothes.

Chrono: You're solid and very quick to recover too.

Nanoha: ...Are you praising me or insulting me?

Fate:

[Erio]

As I mentioned a couple of pages ago, Fate's scythe's blade is Lightning elemental. Elemental magic does physical damage (thus it is able to penetrate a drone's AMF). That's why when she hits Signum, we can see a bruise on Signum's skin.

Now, since Lightning is an pure element--that is, it is not something you can "grab", or to explain myself better, think of it as water-- some may confuse it to be "pure energy". However, there's plenty of evidence so far that proves that elemental magic is very different from pure energy magic, as pure energy spells, such as Divine Buster and Starlight Breaker, deal only magical damage.

Now this part is pure speculation: I believe that a Linker Core emits pure energy. The mage then takes this pure energy to form spells. Nanoha did not have any magical training in season 1, and thus she could only take this pure energy emitted from her Linker Core and blast it away (Divine Buster). However, more experienced mages, such as Fate at that time, are able to take this pure energy and convert it into a magical element. For this reason, I believe that elemental mages are more advanced than regular mages. An example: Teana so far only has pure energy attacks.

Also, about the barrier jackets, I believe they only defend against magic damage. You need to use Shield defense to repel physical damage attacks (this part is only based on speculation, though)

[Keroko]

I'm not arguing the fact wether beams are magical damage or physical. What I am arguing is this whole 'magic damages the soul/Linker Core but not the body' thing going on.

Simple example: Drones.

Drones don't have a soul to damage and make them faint. No, the blasts rip right through them and tear them to pieces. Therefore, if a mage is not wearing a barrier jacket or is not defending, magical attacks will tear them apart.

[johnishida]

Originally Posted by Erio

As I mentioned a couple of pages ago, Fate's scythe's blade is Lightning elemental. Elemental magic does physical damage (thus it is able to penetrate a drone's AMF). That's why when she hits Signum, we can see a bruise on Signum's skin.

Now, since Lightning is an pure element--that is, it is not something you can "grab", or to explain myself better, think of it as water-- some may confuse it to be "pure energy". However, there's plenty of evidence so far that proves that elemental magic is very different from pure energy magic, as pure energy spells, such as Divine Buster and Starlight Breaker, deal only magical damage.

Now this part is pure speculation: I believe that a Linker Core emits pure energy. The mage then takes this pure energy to form spells. Nanoha did not have any magical training in season 1, and thus she could only take this pure energy emitted from her Linker Core and blast it away (Divine Buster). However, more experienced mages, such as Fate at that time, are able to take this pure energy and convert it into a magical element. For this reason, I believe that elemental mages are more advanced than regular mages. An example: Teana so far only has pure energy attacks.

Also, about the barrier jackets, I believe they only defend against magic damage. You need to use Shield defense to repel physical damage attacks (this part is only based on speculation, though)

I can agree with that. BJs may have a minor physical defenses capacity... That may be the reason why some close combat mages, like Fate, include shield like arm protectors.

Also, for those who read the manga, it was explained that there were different types of Magic Defences: Fields, Barriers, Shield and Real Shields.

Fields give certain effects to barriers likes: Healing, environment protection, etc

Barriers protect from magical damage by absorbing it.

Shields protect from physical damage using a opposing type of magic that makes the attacks rebound on the shield.

And the real shield is any kind of physical object that is used to protect yourself. I guess they can be used to protect yourself from magic and physical damage.

[Meophist]

Actually, here's what I'm getting from the translated manga:

Barrier
Using a protective shield to override attacks. It allows one to gently avoid the attack. The most commonly used defense.
Shield
Using an opposing magic type to guard. Rebounds the opponent's magic.
Field
Works over a given distance. Emphasizes blocking certain effects (e.g. temperature change). Usually used along with Barrier/Shield.
Physical Shield
Uses a strengthened shield for physical protection.

None of these takes about magical/physical attacks.

[Erio]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I'm not arguing the fact wether beams are magical damage or physical. What I am arguing is this whole 'magic damages the soul/Linker Core but not the body' thing going on.

Simple example: Drones.

Drones don't have a soul to damage and make them faint. No, the blasts rip right through them and tear them to pieces. Therefore, if a mage is not wearing a barrier jacket or is not defending, magical attacks will tear them apart.

Dont worry, my ideas were not about that argument.

But lets see, if I had to take a side on this argument, I... *a bunch of ideas collide in my head at this moment*... OK, I have no clue. The only thing that would make sense is like in Bleach, where you have a spirit, so magical attacks would damage the spirit and not the body...

But just as you say, that doesnt explain why pure energy magic also destroys drones.

Originally Posted by Meophist

Actually, here's what I'm getting from the translated manga:

Barrier
Using a protective shield to override attacks. It allows one to gently avoid the attack. The most commonly used defense.
Shield
Using an opposing magic type to guard. Rebounds the opponent's magic.
Field
Works over a given distance. Emphasizes blocking certain effects (e.g. temperature change). Usually used along with Barrier/Shield.
Physical Shield
Uses a strengthened shield for physical protection.

None of these takes about magical/physical attacks.

Yeah, that's why my ideas are but ideas. There has been many times where my ideas are contradicted, for example Nanoha used a Shield to stop Vita's physical ball in episode 1, and then in episode 5 she used a Barrier to stop Graf Eisen's physical attack.

Oh well, I dont know what to say.

[Kha]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Druid of the Claw: "I'm awake... I'm awake...!"

Well you see, it all started when I made a simple suggestion...

The point is, I missed my chance to pull a Skane-class post which might've ended this streak earlier.

@MG vs PY Dam debate: The same energy attack can be used to deal either magical or physical damage. Crossfire was used in the former manner against Teana, in that instead of dealing HP damage, it burned her MP instead, causing her to 'appear tired and exhausted', especially if you equate a person's mana pool to his/her energy/stamina level. I think this is possible as there's no physical component to the attack, so no hard object to deal physical base damage; and so by changing the form of energy the spell is charged with (lets say instead of intense thermal energy, raw "anti-mana" is used) the damage dealt changes.

Known defence and protection systems work against both attacks, and damage only occurs when all have been overwhelmed.

Considering that this is a "Riot" force we're dealing with, the ability to use "anti-mana" with theoretically is the magical equivalent of rubber bullets, and might've been included in Nanoha's official training, and she has been better able to perform such a switch, even though having done so since she pulled SB on her best friend and started her fearsome reputation in the TSAB.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I'm not arguing the fact wether beams are magical damage or physical. What I am arguing is this whole 'magic damages the soul/Linker Core but not the body' thing going on.

Simple example: Drones.

Drones don't have a soul to damage and make them faint. No, the blasts rip right through them and tear them to pieces. Therefore, if a mage is not wearing a barrier jacket or is not defending, magical attacks will tear them apart.

Here's my question then, what makes you think that the attacks are PURE magic base to begin with ?

For that matter, why would it be just magic? It's a souless, lifeless drone...

... No need to hold back

[Kha]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I'm not arguing the fact wether beams are magical damage or physical. What I am arguing is this whole 'magic damages the soul/Linker Core but not the body' thing going on.

Simple example: Drones.

Drones don't have a soul to damage and make them faint. No, the blasts rip right through them and tear them to pieces. Therefore, if a mage is not wearing a barrier jacket or is not defending, magical attacks will tear them apart.

I'm sure intense heat pretty much tears at anything be it metal or flesh.

I agree with C2F here. No point in holding back, just switch to full damage and beamspam them out of the sky. Which also explains why Nanoha was rather willing to blast Fate with the SB, especially when SB is on magic-mode she knows it wouldn't kill Fate.

EDIT: What you said culd be true I realized, but that gives a hint that mages are weaker to these magical attacks for the side effects run straight through known defences, lowering the ability to maintain their defence, causing it to come down and therefore continued attack would've torn the mage to pieces. Teana was smashed twice with the same attack, and all she got was KO'd. Fate was hit with a continuous attack, only her barrier jacket, a creation of magic, sustained damage.

[Erio]

Originally Posted by Kha

@MG vs PY Dam debate: The same energy attack can be used to deal either magical or physical damage. Crossfire was used in the former manner against Teana, in that instead of dealing HP damage, it burned her MP instead, causing her to 'appear tired and exhausted', especially if you equate a person's mana pool to his/her energy/stamina level. I think this is possible as there's no physical component to the attack, so no hard object to deal physical base damage; and so by changing the form of energy the spell is charged with (lets say instead of intense thermal energy, raw "anti-mana" is used) the damage dealt changes.

At least my theory (about magic conversion) holds here. The pure magic emitted from your Linker Core can be converted to deal physical damage (and not necessarily converted to an element). So, that does makes sense, at least to me.

Known defence and protection systems work against both attacks, and damage only occurs when all have been overwhelmed.

I can live with this. There is probably no better explanation.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Kha

I agree with C2F here. No point in holding back, just switch to full damage and beamspam them out of the sky. Which also explains why Nanoha was rather willingly to blast Fate with the SB, especially when she knows it wouldn't kill her.

Which is also the reason why Teana nearly killed Subaru... That attack was meant for a drone. Meaning if it had hit, there's going to be a very big hole in that girl...

[Meophist]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Which is also the reason why Teana nearly killed Subaru... That attack was meant for a drone. Meaning if it had hit, there's going to be a very big hole in that girl...

Well that would depend on the strength of her Barrier Jacket.

But in any case, guys?